Can You Hurt People by Helping Them?

[jimmyjimmy]

Can misguided acts of charity permanently damage the very people it intended to help? Looking at the state of the people groups in which the government and other agencies have been "helping" for decades, it's clear that they have done more harm than good. Their good intentions have ruined countless lives.

The story of the butterfly

A man found a cocoon of a butterfly.
One day a small opening appeared.
He sat and watched the butterfly for several hours
as it struggled to squeeze its body through the tiny hole.
Then it stopped, as if it couldn’t go further.

So the man decided to help the butterfly.
He took a pair of scissors and
snipped off the remaining bits of cocoon.
The butterfly emerged easily but
it had a swollen body and shriveled wings.
The man continued to watch it,
expecting that any minute the wings would enlarge
and expand enough to support the body,
Neither happened!

In fact the butterfly spent the rest of its life
crawling around.
It was never able to fly.
What the man in his kindness
and haste did not understand:

The restricting cocoon and the struggle
required by the butterfly to get through the opening
was a way of forcing the fluid from the body
into the wings so that it would be ready
for flight once that was achieved.

 

[Anguspure]

Witness the welfare state.

 

[longwait]

Regarding the government I doubt if their intentions were good and that means any government in any part of the world.

 

[Anguspure]

Regarding the government I doubt if their intentions were good and that means any government in any part of the world.

The welfare state in NZ started with the very best of intentions, even if they were misguided and poorly executed.

 

[SkyWriting]

Can misguided acts of charity permanently damage the very people it intended to help? Looking at the state of the people groups in which the government and other agencies have been "helping" for decades, it's clear that they have done more harm than good. Their good intentions have ruined countless lives.

Most people hired for jobs are leaving a situation of unemployment. So there options for people that do work. But I've lived in subsidized housing, and in general, people just "settle in" and make no effort to leave government subsidized housing. To be effective, welfare should be subject to being cut off at any time. My proposal is that welfare should consistently decrease from day one. Perhaps that would be a solution for Social Security as well.

 

[Mountainmike]

It is only one aspect of a profound issue:

But using resource for "teaching to fish" is clearly more beneficial than "fishing for someone"

An anecdote / example from the UK....Housing benefit funds many people to live hand to mouth in London Area which is ruinously expensive, and in my view hinders what should happen, the same people moving to places a lot cheaper in the country, whilst allowing the additional demand to push up prices yet further. Who has the benefit actually helped, whilst it tries to sustain the unsusatainable?

Yet there are many cheap areas with jobs and cheap housing in the UK, not least where I live in the North West. So my view in that case is the benefit spend would be better in aiding relocation ,not prolonging the untenable! So one off spend, better than lifetime dependency.

Another dimension of your post. Is the (total lack of) experience of our (primarily career) politicians. Who suggest "obvious" remedies, without having the experience or knowledge , so end up wasting a lot of money! In many cases all they achieve is a "drug" like depenency on the aid programme, an example of which I just gave, on housing in high price areas. Am I cynical or is it actually true? Are the politicians just trying to "Buy" voters?

Can misguided acts of charity permanently damage the very people it intended to help? Looking at the state of the people groups in which the government and other agencies have been "helping" for decades, it's clear that they have done more harm than good. Their good intentions have ruined countless lives.

The story of the butterfly

A man found a cocoon of a butterfly.
One day a small opening appeared.
He sat and watched the butterfly for several hours
as it struggled to squeeze its body through the tiny hole.
Then it stopped, as if it couldn’t go further.

So the man decided to help the butterfly.
He took a pair of scissors and
snipped off the remaining bits of cocoon.
The butterfly emerged easily but
it had a swollen body and shriveled wings.
The man continued to watch it,
expecting that any minute the wings would enlarge
and expand enough to support the body,
Neither happened!

In fact the butterfly spent the rest of its life
crawling around.
It was never able to fly.
What the man in his kindness
and haste did not understand:

The restricting cocoon and the struggle
required by the butterfly to get through the opening
was a way of forcing the fluid from the body
into the wings so that it would be ready
for flight once that was achieved.

 

[timewerx]

The welfare state in NZ started with the very best of intentions, even if they were misguided and poorly executed.

Actually, it was good. Those who abuse it seem to only come from a specific cultural group.

My uncle used to live in welfare in NZ but strived to get out of it anyway and got a job.

But don't underestimate the economic benefits of the enormous welfare NZ provides. It helps stimulate local economy, especially helps small and medium businesses thrive, makes it easy to find jobs, etc. etc. The point is, it makes living a lot easier for everyone. Makes it a lot less headache to survive.

If you remove welfare, the money will just move upwards but this has an unintended effect of killing the small and even medium businesses which in turn would drive a lot of people out of jobs might end up in a recession and worse, unrest. If the country manages to survive, then you will be left to manage a huge income gap between NZ'ers which will cause a number of social issues including a spike in crime rates and the rise of illegal trade like human and drugs trafficking.

If you work for a small or medium sized company or own one, you can thank the generous welfare of NZ. It's indirectly the reason you are employed or have your small business thriving.

Anyway, a generous welfare has it's limits though. It's working well for now as NZ's population size is still manageable but as it increases, it will soon cause a supply problem. In fact, if we don't do anything about the global population, the welfare system would fail completely at a certain point. We have to take over the world and regulate the world population.

 

[If Not For Grace]

Enabling is always harmful, whether by the government or individuals. It creates a cycle of dependency and resentment on both parts in time. We need to re-define the word "help" and make sure that our definition does not include doing for others..any acts that they are capable of and could/should do for themselves. Teach a man to fish...

 

[jimmyjimmy]

It is only one aspect of a profound issue:

But using resource for "teaching to fish" is clearly more beneficial than "fishing for someone"

An anecdote / example from the UK....Housing benefit funds many people to live hand to mouth in London Area which is ruinously expensive, and in my view hinders what should happen, the same people moving to places a lot cheaper in the country, whilst allowing the additional demand to push up prices yet further. Who has the benefit actually helped, whilst it tries to sustain the unsusatainable?

Yet there are many cheap areas with jobs and cheap housing in the UK, not least where I live in the North West. So my view in that case is the benefit spend would be better in aiding relocation ,not prolonging the untenable! So one off spend, better than lifetime dependency.

Another dimension of your post. Is the (total lack of) experience of our (primarily career) politicians. Who suggest "obvious" remedies, without having the experience or knowledge , so end up wasting a lot of money! In many cases all they achieve is a "drug" like depenency on the aid programme, an example of which I just gave, on housing in high price areas. Am I cynical or is it actually true? Are the politicians just trying to "Buy" voters?

I am fully aware of the incompetence and corruption of politicians, but there are many individuals, some here on CF, who don't understand how their own actions and the actions of their churches lead to the ruin of many. Toward persuading them to think before acting, is where I had hoped to turn this discussion.

 

[Long Island Pilgrim]

Nice post!
Another example of "misguided acts of charity" come in the form of people who are not developmentally mature enough to know what a favor of gift means. And they use gifts and favors to manipulate and entrap people through obligation and guilt.

Sometimes people are not aware that their "acts of Charity" are completely self serving and parasitic . Thats why our Lord says that our righteousness is like filthy rags.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Nice post!
Another example of "misguided acts of charity" come in the form of people who are not developmentally mature enough to know what a favor of gift means. And they use gifts and favors to manipulate and entrap people through obligation and guilt.

Sometimes people are not aware that their "acts of Charity" are completely self serving and parasitic . Thats why our Lord says that our righteousness is like filthy rags.

You are on to something, I think. Few seem able to see that some people "help" the poor for self-serving reasons, not the least of which is to obtain their own righteousness (or so they think). They care not for the lives of the poor, but about themselves and how wonderful they appear to others.

Because they give to be seen or to assuage their guilty consciouses, their minds are not trained on what is best for those in need, only what is best for themselves; therefore, the suffering of the poor is compounded and prolonged.

 

[Long Island Pilgrim]

You are on to something, I think. Few seem able to see that some people "help" the poor for self-serving reasons, not the least of which is to obtain their own righteousness (or so they think). They care not for the lives of the poor, but about themselves and how wonderful they appear to others.

Because they give to be seen or to assuage their guilty consciouses, their minds are not trained on what is best for those in need, only what is best for themselves; therefore, the suffering of the poor is compounded and prolonged.

Yep...and you can usually tell who those people are because they will plaster and advertise all their good deeds on facebook. lol To be fair though...most people are at such infantile levels of development that they are genuinely unable to apprehend higher order cognitive and emotional motivations. And most of the time the best they can genuinely do is to attempt to create the illusion that they are "good'. It's just one of those carnal default mechanisms that we hopefully eventually learn to outgrow. I had to outgrow that level of thinking myself back in the day. For the record, I'm not using the word infantile as a criticism...I mean it literally. Most of the adult population is operating at levels of development which are very primitive and childlike. That's why our Lord tells us not to be yoked with unbelievers. It's because we will always be influenced and/or victimized by deceptive/carnal ways of being. I often think of Moses and all those years he had to endure with all those ungrateful, murmuring childish tribes of people. Aaron couldn't even manage for a short time without resorting to a golden calf for crying out loud. lol

 

[Mountainmike]

I am fully aware of the incompetence and corruption of politicians, but there are many individuals, some here on CF, who don't understand how their own actions and the actions of their churches lead to the ruin of many. Toward persuading them to think before acting, is where I had hoped to turn this discussion.

Sorry, not sure where you are headed with this then?
What sort of actions by what sort of churches?

Over here, in UK there was recently a series called "sister rita to the rescue"a nub who had formed a drop in centre and foodbank, "lalley drop in centre" which has achieved success in respect not just of immediate non judgemental help, but also in giving skills on job hunting and so on. And in general in creating community in one of the poorest neighbourhoods in Manchester UK. This time of year giving christmans presents to parents for kids, who would not have got them otherwise.I cannot heap enough praise on that centre.

For some isolation is the worst poverty. Mother Teresa reckoned that in that sense poverty is worse in rich countries than it is in poor ones.

 

[SkyWriting]

Can misguided acts of charity permanently damage the very people it intended to help? Looking at the state of the people groups in which the government and other agencies have been "helping" for decades, it's clear that they have done more harm than good. Their good intentions have ruined countless lives.

People also ruin their own lives.
Not cashing the government check is an option.
Just imagine how many welfare checks have never
been torn in half or sent back.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Sorry, not sure where you are headed with this then?
What sort of actions by what sort of churches?

Over here, in UK there was recently a series called "sister rita to the rescue"a nub who had formed a drop in centre and foodbank, "lalley drop in centre" which has achieved success in respect not just of immediate non judgemental help, but also in giving skills on job hunting and so on. And in general in creating community in one of the poorest neighbourhoods in Manchester UK. This time of year giving christmans presents to parents for kids, who would not have got them otherwise.I cannot heap enough praise on that centre.

For some isolation is the worst poverty. Mother Teresa reckoned that in that sense poverty is worse in rich countries than it is in poor ones.

Doing for people what they ought to do for themselves harms them. That's where I'm going with this.

 

[Long Island Pilgrim]

Doing for people what they ought to do for themselves harms them. That's where I'm going with this.

Jimmy you are preaching to the choir because boy did I ever have to learn this lesson the hard way.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Jimmy you are preaching to the choir because boy did I ever have to learn this lesson the hard way.

I was a bleeding-heart liberal in my 20s, but it didn't take long to see the error of my ways.

 

[Long Island Pilgrim]

Yep...me too. Bleeding and dumb