Can you help with a theological debate?

[Lukaris]

The thing is I know I could read Genesis 6:1-8 & have the same basic understanding of the earlier fathers like St. Irenaeus confirms in On the apostolic Preaching. The early fathers acknowledged this hybrid nephilim thing but did not seem to dwell on it.St. Irenaeus can express the Apostolic preaching from creation to the Gospel in less than 100 pp. St. John Chrysostom has hundreds of pages of homilies on a few chapters of Genesis.St. Basil the great has a homily per each day of creation. All of these things are the faith but the earlier fathers (prior to the 4th c.) seem easier to understand.

 

[ArmyMatt]

The Nephilim were still descendants of Adam, even if they were children of a weird demon-human union.

such a hybrid seems more like some crappy SyFy movie than anything else. it does not make sense for a material being and an immaterial being to create some material hybrid thingie (they would have had to been material since they died in the Flood or whatever).

 

[inconsequential]

Maybe they possessed human men? I used to let them "borrow" my body in exchange for information (divining ability). If the world was as bad as Scripture says, I can easily see people being willing to give their bodies to demons in such a way to enjoy the power it could bring them.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Maybe they possessed human men? I used to let them "borrow" my body in exchange for information (divining ability). If the world was as bad as Scripture says, I can easily see people being willing to give their bodies to demons in such a way to enjoy the power it could bring them.

maybe, but that is not a hybrid. a possessed human is still human. forgive me for being a nit picker, but today when you have all these crazy ideas about where we come from, you can't be too careful when it comes to this stuff.

 

[buzuxi02]

As one of the posters before said Irenaeous wrote that the demons taught the women how to apply make up and sorcery etc. In other words they taught them immodesty. They could use that to seduce men. No different than today.

 

[Steinbeck]

"Nephilim" does not, theologically, fit for people who, frankly, are not nephilim. It is important not to try and fit things to our own way of thinking, but to conform our way of thinking to the thought and mind of the Church.

 

[buzuxi02]

I think it fits perfectly. Todays people with strange psycological conditions that question their very own anatomy, the fact that we physically alter our looks through surgery, tattoos and piercings, etc. I highly doubt that the nephilim were any worse.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Dude, bro, EVERYTHING on syfy is crappy! LOL! That's just a requirement on that channel!

such a hybrid seems more like some crappy SyFy movie than anything else. it does not make sense for a material being and an immaterial being to create some material hybrid thingie (they would have had to been material since they died in the Flood or whatever).

 

[inconsequential]

maybe, but that is not a hybrid. a possessed human is still human. forgive me for being a nit picker, but today when you have all these crazy ideas about where we come from, you can't be too careful when it comes to this stuff.

Is is possible they made bodies for themselves or even physiologically altered the bodies of men? If we can make meat from plants, what might they be able to do with raw materials? Not saying I believe that, just throwing out some thoughts.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Is is possible they made bodies for themselves or even physiologically altered the bodies of men? If we can make meat from plants, what might they be able to do with raw materials? Not saying I believe that, just throwing out some thoughts.

no because you are talking about noetic beings becoming material as well. even plants altered to resemble meat are both still plants and still material. the only creatures that are both noetic and material are human beings.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Dude, bro, EVERYTHING on syfy is crappy! LOL! That's just a requirement on that channel!

hahaha, so you are telling me that's why Sharknado was not mentioned at the Oscars......?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Hello my brothers and sisters in Christ,

I am having a theological argument and I would love it if I could get some help with it.

The question is this, after the fall did the fallen angels mate with humans?

Were children born from these 'unions'?

Thank you for your help![/

i've looked into this . and found there's an endless amount of disagreement in regards to whether there was or there wasn't . as the book of the bible was written to humans . the inconclusiveness of this topic may be for that reason . i am however, just sharing my thoughts . hope you all have a good evening .

 

[inconsequential]

Could the demons' fall have given them some sense of material existence because of the creation having a fallen nature? They are able to interact with matter in a physical way, so why not be able to take a form capable of procreating with humans? Or what about the mark on Cain being a genetic difference to set his lineage apart from the children of Seth?

If this has been covered, forgive me, I only have Internet access at work and can't read as much as I'd like.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Could the demons' fall have given them some sense of material existence because of the creation having a fallen nature? They are able to interact with matter in a physical way, so why not be able to take a form capable of procreating with humans? Or what about the mark on Cain being a genetic difference to set his lineage apart from the children of Seth?

If this has been covered, forgive me, I only have Internet access at work and can't read as much as I'd like.

no, demons are not, and never will be, material.

 

[inconsequential]

no, demons are not, and never will be, material.

Having never really thought about that, it raises some other questions for me, unrelated to nephilim. At the risk of derailing the thread, how do angels and demons interact with matter since they aren't material? I can understand God permitting/enabling angels to do so but what of demons? I can understand demons possessing people through their minds but what about the physical manifestations that are sometimes associated with such activity?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Having never really thought about that, it raises some other questions for me, unrelated to nephilim. At the risk of derailing the thread, how do angels and demons interact with matter since they aren't material? I can understand God permitting/enabling angels to do so but what of demons? I can understand demons possessing people through their minds but what about the physical manifestations that are sometimes associated with such activity?

perhaps at one time they were material? a question to add to the meditation .

 

[jckstraw72]

perhaps at one time they were material? a question to add to the meditation .

angels and demons have always been spiritual beings. they are "slightly" material - when compared to God Who alone is pure spirit, but compared to us they are spiritual.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

angels and demons have always been spiritual beings. they are "slightly" material - when compared to God Who alone is pure spirit, but compared to us they are spiritual.

i am reminded of how the word commonly translated as "Spirit" in both hebrew and greek seems to be the wind . slightly material makes sense . i recall these times when it was harder to breathe because the "wind" in my windpipe was a little thicker than usual .

 

[ArmyMatt]

Having never really thought about that, it raises some other questions for me, unrelated to nephilim. At the risk of derailing the thread, how do angels and demons interact with matter since they aren't material? I can understand God permitting/enabling angels to do so but what of demons? I can understand demons possessing people through their minds but what about the physical manifestations that are sometimes associated with such activity?

sure, God can allow them to afflict us physically if need be. look at the life of St Anthony or the modern book on the life of Elder Joseph the Hesychast (shameless plug because it is an awesome book), and you will see what demons can do to us physically

 

[Isaac of Syria]

The Nephilim were the remaining Neanderthals.