Can we stop kidding ourselves about "I'm personally opposed but"?

[Michie]

In 1984 after much interior laboring over the thorny issue of abortion, Catholic Governor Mario Cuomo delivered the speech that would free Catholics from being swaddled in Church teaching while liberating them to cuddle up to pro-abortion policy. The New York Governor conceived the hair-splitting notion that amounted to- "I'm personally opposed to abortion....

Continued below.
http://www.ncregister.com/blog/cgress/can-we-stop-kidding-ourselves-about-im-personally-opposed-but

 

[Sword of the Lord]

It's a very, very stupid logic. "I wouldn't kill this child, but I support your right to kill this child." Then you aren't opposed and don't care. That is why I call Kaine a donkey.

 

[benedictaoo]

The error in that logic is, it IS the government's responsibility to protect those who can't protect themselves. It truly is about the right to life. Either you believe a baby has the right to be born or you don't. These Catholic politican donkey's obviously don't believe that.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

I switch from Democrat to Republican in the middle of the Kerry campaign for POTUS because he said something like that.

 

[benedictaoo]

I don't understand for 5 seconds if you are a serious pro life, right to life, really takes abortion serious Catholic, how could you be un decided? I get being undecided if you'll vote Trump but if Hillary and butt backwards Catholic what's his name isn't crossed of the list, I don't get that. If Catholics don't want Trump, Hillary in no way could be an option, she's a sleez. How could a true pro life Catholic be on the fence about Hills? That makes no sense to me.

 

[MikeK]

I know people who say that they personally find human torture like waterboarding distasteful but believe it to be sometimes warranted. I know people who have similar thoughts regarding abortion. I don't trust these people.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

I don't trust these people.

I'm sure many will be disappointed by this revelation.

 

[MikeK]

I'm sure many will be disappointed by this revelation.

Thanks for your contribution.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

Thanks for your contribution.

My pleasure.

 

[MikeK]

In the spirit of full disclosure, I do personally relate to this logic. While I am personally against cigarette smoking due to the tolls it takes on people's lives (including children of smokers), I do not favor a ban on cigarettes. While I aknowledge that inappropriate contentography is an evil, I am not petitioning for an absolute ban on inappropriate contentography. As much as I recognize that missing Mass without a valid reason is a mortal sin for Catholics, I don't favor civil laws that would force Catholics to attend Mass to protect their souls from sin.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

As much as I recognize that missing Mass without a valid reason is a mortal sin for Catholics, I don't favor civil laws that would force Catholics to attend Mass to protect their souls from sin.

I would expect not! 4 months is a really long time. I personally don't miss service very often because of the poor example it sets for my kids.

 

[MikeK]

My pleasure.

Note how I won't resort to whinging on about the rules and off topic posts. Not my style. Related to the topic of this thread, I know posters who apparently, given their statements, feel that the rules of this forum are very important and remind their adversaries of them, even as they break the same rules themselves. It is nothing short of fascinating the way that we will hold others to standards different from what we hold ourselves to. The OP is quite close to home if we care to discuss it frankly.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

Note how I won't resort to whinging on about the rules and off topic posts. Not my style. Related to the topic of this thread, I know posters who apparently, given their statements, feel that the rules of this forum are very important and remind their adversaries of them, even as they break the same rules themselves. It is nothing short of fascinating the way that we will hold others to standards different from what we hold ourselves to. The OP is quite close to home if we care to discuss it frankly.

Notice how my very first post was on topic and then I replied to your on topic post with a relevant comment to your post, that people will be disappointed that you don't trust them. Many trustworthy people have opposing views.

 

[MikeK]

I would expect not! 4 months is a really long time. I personally don't miss service very often because of the poor example it sets for my kids.

Yes, I've not been to Mass in about 4 months. It isn't a great example of Catholicism for my kids. Thanks for bringing up my personal example in this thread. You've complained when I've done the same to you. I don't mind when you do it, I am a rather open book about my sins.

At this point in my life I am very aware of what the Church teaches, but not convinced that the Church is what She claims to be, hence my relative comfort in missing Mass. I may come back. I may not. I appreciate your apparent and sincere Christian concern for my wellbeing.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

Yes, I've not been to Mass in about 4 months. It isn't a great example of Catholicism for my kids. Thanks for bringing up my personal example in this thread. You've complained when I've done the same to you. I don't mind when you do it, I am a rather open book about my sins.

At this point in my life I am very aware of what the Church teaches, but not convinced that the Church is what She claims to be, hence my relative comfort in missing Mass. I may come back. I may not. I appreciate your apparent and sincere Christian concern for my wellbeing.

I was under the impression that the Mass example was related to you being away from Mass.

Personally, I know nothing about your kids and if this is or isn't a bad example for them, based on how much they know or understand your struggles. For my kids, they ask questions if I miss, and then want to miss themselves.

With that said, when you say, "Our Pope and Bishops have stated such and such..." do you find that a bit disingenuous at the present?

 

[MikeK]

I was under the impression that the Mass example was related to you being away from Mass.

Personally, I know nothing about your kids and if this is or isn't a bad example for them, based on how much they know or understand your struggles. For my kids, they ask questions if I miss, and then want to miss themselves.

With that said, when you say, "Our Pope and Bishops have stated such and such..." do you find that a bit disingenuous at the present?

Not at all. The Church, our Pope and our Bishops teach authentic Catholicism and sincere, practicing Catholics will humbly submit to their authority.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

Not at all. The Church, our Pope and our Bishops teach authentic Catholicism and sincere, practicing Catholics will humbly submit to their authority.

But if you're not sure that the Church is what she claims she is, what makes the Pope and Bishops universally right for you?

You can PM me if you wish to answer and so we don't completely derail the thread.

 

[MikeK]

But if you're not sure that the Church is what she claims she is, what makes the Pope and Bishops universally right for you?

You can PM me if you wish to answer and so we don't completely derail the thread.

I don't care about silliness like arbitrary thread derailing rules.

The Popes and Bishops are teaching the truth of Catholic morality. if Catholicism is true the. They are correct and must be humbly submitted to. Catholic believers will follow their moral teachings. I am not going to teach anything but what the Chyrch teaches on a Catholic webforum, that would be quite rude. I will instead educate people in what the Church teaches and they may reject or adhere to the teachings of the Church based on their belief or lack thereof.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I switch from Democrat to Republican in the middle of the Kerry campaign for POTUS because he said something like that.

I switched after Clinton's 60 Minutes debut.
Not because of the affair - but him stating he was pro abortion.
The affair was just an aside at the time.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

I don't care about silliness like arbitrary thread derailing rules.

The Popes and Bishops are teaching the truth of Catholic morality. if Catholicism is true the. They are correct and must be humbly submitted to. Catholic believers will follow their moral teachings. I am not going to teach anything but what the Chyrch teaches on a Catholic webforum, that would be quite rude. I will instead educate people in what the Church teaches and they may reject or adhere to the teachings of the Church based on their belief or lack thereof.

Not really, unless there is some teaching I'm unfamiliar with that says they are right all the time. The Church has had some evil popes and clergy, I wouldn't expect them to be considered right all the time.