Can we eat pork now?

[dollarsbill]

You can't throw me the "everyone knows it's wrong line".

You don't know that eating people and feces is wrong? I do.

Anyone can use 1 Timothy 4 to defend their eating of whatever it is they want to eat. Good thing God made food/not food clear before---so that Paul's lesson in 1 Timothy 4 can make sense in the light of what was written before it.

Paul said "advocating abstaining from foods" is "doctrines of demons". Are you advocating abstaining from foods? Sure sounds like it.

You can't tell me I'm not allowed to eat feces or human flesh or blood because "everyone knows that is wrong". That doesn't work. You need to show me where God says something is wrong. And He does

If you don't know it's wrong to eat feces and humans you need help.

Once again...it's the same old song. What is written in the NT must agree with what was written before it. If it doesn't, you're not interpreting it correctly. It's that simple.
That's what Messiah did, that's what Paul did, that's what EVERYONE that has written ANYTHING in the Bible do.

Sorry, I don't believe in executing sinners as Moses COMMANDED.

"To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because they have no dawn."

But Christians are not under that Law. We have the New Covenant.

Messiah reverberates this in John 5:46-47?
"For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"

Believing what Moses said and following his commandments are not exactly the same.

 

[tzadik]

You don't know that eating people and feces is wrong? I do.

I do too. But it’s not because the majority of the world’s population think it’s wrong. But because God tells me it’s wrong. Big difference.

Paul said "advocating abstaining from foods" is "doctrines of demons". Are you advocating abstaining from foods? Sure sounds like it.

It’s incredible how one can lose complete sight of lessons taught in Scriptures, because they are set on trying to find loopholes in God’s Instructions. God told us CLEARLY what is to be considered food and what is not. So I’m not advocating “food abstaining” –rather only advocating eating what God told us to eat again…Big difference.

If you don't know it's wrong to eat feces and humans you need help.

Again it’s nice for you to bring the Psychiatric approach, but I could care less about what the majority thinks. Only show me and tell me something is wrong, if God says it is. In the case of food, He tells us what is to be considered food. I can show you using Scripture that eating human flesh and feces is wrong. Can you?

Sorry, I don't believe in executing sinners as Moses COMMANDED.

That is because you don’t understand God’s Torah.

But Christians are not under that Law. We have the New Covenant.

A new covenant that will have the Law of God written on their hearts. Ironic isn’t it?

Believing what Moses said and following his commandments are not exactly the same.

John 3:36---believing in the Son, without obedience to the Son = Nothing.
Believing in God’s Word without obedience to God’s Word = Nothing.
Faith without works of righteousness = Nothing.
Hearing God’s Word, without DOING God’s Word = NOTHING.

 

[dollarsbill]

I do too. But it’s not because the majority of the world’s population think it’s wrong. But because God tells me it’s wrong. Big difference.

Where does the Bible say it's wrong to eat feces or humans?

It’s incredible how one can lose complete sight of lessons taught in Scriptures, because they are set on trying to find loopholes in God’s Instructions. God told us CLEARLY what is to be considered food and what is not. So I’m not advocating “food abstaining” –rather only advocating eating what God told us to eat again…Big difference.

Sure sounds like you're 'advocating abstaining from foods' to me.

1 Timothy 4:4-5 (NASB)
4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude; 5 for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.

Again it’s nice for you to bring the Psychiatric approach, but I could care less about what the majority thinks. Only show me and tell me something is wrong, if God says it is. In the case of food, He tells us what is to be considered food. I can show you using Scripture that eating human flesh and feces is wrong. Can you?

No thanks, I don't plan to eat those.

That is because you don’t understand God’s Torah.

I do understand how the Law buffet works. There are PLENTY of VERY selective preachers of the Law. They avoid the hard parts like plague.

A new covenant that will have the Law of God written on their hearts. Ironic isn’t it?

Yeah, the moral parts of the Law. Not 'the works of the Law'.

Galatians 3:10 (NASB)
10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse;

John 3:36---believing in the Son, without obedience to the Son = Nothing.
Believing in God’s Word without obedience to God’s Word = Nothing.
Faith without works of righteousness = Nothing.
Hearing God’s Word, without DOING God’s Word = NOTHING.

I certainly believe in obeying the NT. But I'm not under 'the works of the Law'.

 

[stan1953]

"For you are a holy people to the LORD your God, and the LORD has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth. You shall not eat any detestable thing."

I wonder what God considers as detestable...

The OC Law is obsolete and we are NOW under the NC relationship with God. ALL of us, the Jew first and then the Gentile. It is based on a relationship with God, NOT obeying a bunch of written laws from Moses or Leviticus. The NT makes that clear, and Acts 10 makes the issue of clean and unclean clear. If you are one of His sheep then you will listen to His voice and know it. Jesus' voice is NOT the OT law, it is the Goods News of the NT which was brought for ALL of us. If God says three times to Peter, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.” , do you not think he meant it? Do you not think that Peter, based on his response in verse 15, was a devout Jew when it came to eating practices? The whole purpose of the vision in Acts 10 was to show Peter the NEW way, and that WASN'T to follow OT laws as to who and what was clean or not.
You know the old saying, "Three time's the charm." God had to repeat this three times to Peter, to get through his strong indoctrination into the Judaic Laws. Peter got it and proceeds to be useful in God's plan for the Gentiles.

 

[tzadik]

The OC Law is obsolete

Says you. Messiah says, that not even the smallest stroke of the ‘obselete law’ shall pass until heaven and earth pass. If you take a skim over to Revelation 21:1 you’d see that Messiah wasn’t “metaphorizing’ anything. Heaven and earth will pass! Until then, I’ll believe Messiah clear teaching over your opinion.

and we are NOW under the NC relationship with God.

I love when people claim the New covenant when A. the new covenant is made with the House of Israel and the House of Judah and B. the “obsolete Law” will be written on the hearts of all those who partake in the New covenant. Ironic. You can run but you can’t hide from the Holy Law of God

ALL of us, the Jew first and then the Gentile. It is based on a relationship with God, NOT obeying a bunch of written laws from Moses or Leviticus.

You can’t claim Messiah as your savior if He is not first your Lord. You can’t claim to be adopted in the Household of God, without obedience to the rules of God. It’s like we want to join ourselves to the God of Israel, without having to obey ALL of His Word. What in the world is wrong with us? I really think it’s high time we wake up and smell the roses. What’s with this half-way obedience that we want to do. Just obey Matthew through Revelation, and you’ll be ok. What is wrong with us? Didn’t Messiah say, Man shall not live by bread alone but by EVERY WORD that proceeds from the mouth of God? Did God only give us Matthew through Revelation? How about 2 Timothy 3:16-17…does Paul tell us that ALL “NEW TESTAMENT” Scripture is profitable? NO. He says ALL Scripture.
What’s even more ironic about 2 Timothy 3:16-17 is that the so called “NT” was not even close to being canonized at the time Paul taught this…<shakes head>
Anyways.

God’s Word is a unit. Not two halves. It’s bout time we start living according to Psalm 119.

The NT makes that clear, and Acts 10 makes the issue of clean and unclean clear. If you are one of His sheep then you will listen to His voice and know it. Jesus' voice is NOT the OT law, it is the Goods News of the NT which was brought for ALL of us. If God says three times to Peter, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.” , do you not think he meant it? Do you not think that Peter, based on his response in verse 15, was a devout Jew when it came to eating practices? The whole purpose of the vision in Acts 10 was to show Peter the NEW way, and that WASN'T to follow OT laws as to who and what was clean or not.

And after the entire vision ordeal what did Peter do? Eat pork chops? God forbid! He did what God showed him through the vision and associated with Gentile believers! No need to add to God’s Word. (Deuteronomy 4:2)

 

[stan1953]

Says you. Messiah says, that not even the smallest stroke of the ‘obsolete law’ shall pass until heaven and earth pass. If you take a skim over to Revelation 21:1 you’d see that Messiah wasn't’t “metaphorizing’ anything. Heaven and earth will pass! Until then, I’ll believe Messiah clear teaching over your opinion.

Hebrews 8:13, By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
Luke 24:44, He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.” That is fulfilled.
Matthew 5:18, For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Everything is accomplished. So as you said, do you believe this?

I love when people claim the New covenant when A. the new covenant is made with the House of Israel and the House of Judah and B. the “obsolete Law” will be written on the hearts of all those who partake in the New covenant. Ironic. You can run but you can’t hide from the Holy Law of God

So what do you think Jesus was saying in Luke 22:20?

You can’t claim Messiah as your savior if He is not first your Lord. You can’t claim to be adopted in the Household of God, without obedience to the rules of God. It’s like we want to join ourselves to the God of Israel, without having to obey ALL of His Word. What in the world is wrong with us? I really think it’s high time we wake up and smell the roses. What’s with this half-way obedience that we want to do. Just obey Matthew through Revelation, and you’ll be OK. What is wrong with us? Didn't’t Messiah say, Man shall not live by bread alone but by EVERY WORD that proceeds from the mouth of God? Did God only give us Matthew through Revelation? How about 2 Timothy 3:16-17…does Paul tell us that ALL “NEW TESTAMENT” Scripture is profitable? NO. He says ALL Scripture.
What’s even more ironic about 2 Timothy 3:16-17 is that the so called “NT” was not even close to being canonized at the time Paul taught this…<shakes head>

Well I'd like to see a verse about that statement. First of all The Messiah is for the Jews, are you Jewish? If not, He is our Savior. A fact you should know if you know the OC. The only thing that saves us is Jesus Himself, when we accept Him as our Savior. Romans 10:10, For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. After that, Jesus becomes our Lord and hopefully soon after that our LORD. He is the God of Israel. So if you are part of Israel, He is your covenant God. Since Jesus died, He is the God of the world. We don't become Jews like Gentiles had to under the OT, we are accepted AS IS.

Read Phil 3:3-6, where Paul says of himself, For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh— though I myself have reasons for such confidence.
If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.
Then in Galatians 2:14-16, How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs? “We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

We don't live in OT times, nor NT times, we live today and use the scriptures we have. One of Peter and Paul's biggest issues they faced, in the early church, was Jewish believers trying to bring in Judaic customs and laws into the The Way. They dealt with it constantly and it appears we are still dealing with it today. Because we are under the Spirit of the Law and NOT the Letter of the Law, we can apply many scriptures to our lives, but ONLY with the Holy Spirit's prompting. Will you follow Lev 19:27? I won't, and it has no power over me to do so.








Anyways.

God’s Word is a unit. Not two halves. It’s bout time we start living according to Psalm 119.


And after the entire vision ordeal what did Peter do? Eat pork chops? God forbid! He did what God showed him through the vision and associated with Gentile believers! No need to add to God’s Word. (Deuteronomy 4:2)[/quote]

 

[dollarsbill]

Acts 10:12-13 (NASB)
12 and there were in it all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the air. 13 A voice came to him, "Get up, Peter, kill and eat!"

 

[stan1953]

Anyways.
God’s Word is a unit. Not two halves. It’s bout time we start living according to Psalm 119.
And after the entire vision ordeal what did Peter do? Eat pork chops? God forbid! He did what God showed him through the vision and associated with Gentile believers! No need to add to God’s Word. (Deuteronomy 4:2)

Yes I love Psalm 119 and I find the issue of it being acrostic, very interesting.

Actually Peter may have, who knows. He did stay in Cornelius’s House for a few days. Probably ate some non-kosher dishes, don't know if pork was one of them. Pork was a staple of Cornelius’s diet. The point of Acts 10 is that God DIDN'T forbid it. Verse 13, God said “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”, and in verse 16, it says this happened three times. I think Peter got the WHOLE message, don't you?

 

[dollarsbill]

Last time I checked pigs have 4 feet.

Acts 10:12-13 (NASB)
12 and there were in it all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the air. 13 A voice came to him, "Get up, Peter, kill and eat!"

 

[Sophrosyne]

I find it ironic that Noah took pigs on the ark.... and other unclean animals.

 

[Blessedj01]

LOL are there actually people here debating whether it's okay for Christians to eat pork?

Come on now. Peter laid that one to rest 2000 years ago.

 

[Jonathan95]

Wait what??
If you're gonna choose that route...then you'd have to call EVERYTHING that God commands in His Word as a "burden" and "optional".
How is eating pork different from practicing sorcery?
Or homosexuality, or lying, or committing adultery, or incest? Weren't these all instructed to God's people in the Tanakh ("OT")?
Are you telling me that everything that God commands "except" the 4 requirements are a "burden" to poor Gentiles?

I might be misunderstanding you...so bear with me...

1 Timothy 4:1-5
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

 

[Blessedj01]

Wow...that's a literal prophecy right there coming true on these forums.

 

[tzadik]

Wow...that's a literal prophecy right there coming true on these forums.

AKA you're calling God's Instructions in Leviticus 11 and Deut 14 the doctrine of demons?

Do you believe that God's Word forbids people to marry too?

 

[Harry3142]

Tzadik-

Our set of laws and commandments to follow is found in the New Testament, not the Old. If we were ordered to keep kosher there, then I would pay attention to it. But we are not. On the contrary, all food is seen as good to those who receive it as a gift from God to sustain us.

 

[stan1953]

AKA you're calling God's Instructions in Leviticus 11 and Deut 14 the doctrine of demons?

Do you believe that God's Word forbids people to marry too?

As people who are now living under the Spirit of the Law and NOT the letter of the law, our mission should be to glean from the Holy Spirit what are Godly principles that we should maintain, and what are man-made laws that we should discard. Those who are committed to the WRITTEN law will find that hard to do, and unfortunately will be judged by that written law. Those who are committed to the Spirit of the Law will grow into the full knowledge of God as He relates to us on a daily basis. The King is dead, long live the King!

 

[dollarsbill]

Tzadik-

Our set of laws and commandments to follow is found in the New Testament, not the Old. If we were ordered to keep kosher there, then I would pay attention to it. But we are not. On the contrary, all food is seen as good to those who receive it as a gift from God to sustain us.

 

[tzadik]

Tzadik-

Our set of laws and commandments to follow is found in the New Testament, not the Old.

Not sure who "our" refers to. But if you are referring to God's people, or the Household of God, Messiah tells us otherwise. He tells us in Matthew 4:4 that we are to live by EVERY WORD that comes out of the mouth of God. Last time I checked, Genesis through Revelation proceeds from God.
So harry, you are free to only live by half of God's Word, I'd rather strive to live by the words of 2 Timothy 3:16-17.
ALL SCRIPTURE is profitable to follow. ALL SCRIPTURE is profitable to obey. ALL SCRIPTURE is profitable to use for instruction, reproof, correction and training in righteousness!
It's kind of absurd for you to tell me, or any true believer that they should only follow the instructions written in the New Testament and not the Old. Think about what you are saying buddy.

If we were ordered to keep kosher there, then I would pay attention to it. But we are not. On the contrary, all food is seen as good to those who receive it as a gift from God to sustain us.

Again, your splitting and dividing of God's Word is not supported by Scriptures. God's Instructions to His children start in Genesis and end in Revelation.
Nothing anyone says, or does will undo Matthew 4:4 and 2 Timothy 3:16-17. You say live by HALF of the Scriptures.
You say live by HALF of all of God's Word.
Scripture says otherwise.

 

[dollarsbill]

Again, your splitting and dividing of God's Word is not supported by Scriptures.

Actually it was God. The Law of Moses vs the New Covenant. I'll take the New.

Hebrews 8:13 (NASB)
13 When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete.

 

[stan1953]

Not sure who "our" refers to. But if you are referring to God's people, or the Household of God, Messiah tells us otherwise. He tells us in Matthew 4:4 that we are to live by EVERY WORD that comes out of the mouth of God. Last time I checked, Genesis through Revelation proceeds from God.
So harry, you are free to only live by half of God's Word, I'd rather strive to live by the words of 2 Timothy 3:16-17.
ALL SCRIPTURE is profitable to follow. ALL SCRIPTURE is profitable to obey. ALL SCRIPTURE is profitable to use for instruction, reproof, correction and training in righteousness!
It's kind of absurd for you to tell me, or any true believer that they should only follow the instructions written in the New Testament and not the Old. Think about what you are saying buddy.


Again, your splitting and dividing of God's Word is not supported by Scriptures. God's Instructions to His children start in Genesis and end in Revelation.
Nothing anyone says, or does will undo Matthew 4:4 and 2 Timothy 3:16-17. You say live by HALF of the Scriptures.
You say live by HALF of all of God's Word.
Scripture says otherwise.

Scripture says;

Luke 10:25-28

On one occasion an expert in the law(OT) stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”
28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

Matthew 22:37-40

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”