Can Universalism be Christian?

LaSorcia

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It says in 1 Timothy 2:4(God) desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

It also says in 1 John 5:14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.

So, why not pray for everyone to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth?
 
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SkyWriting

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It says in 1 Timothy 2:4(God) desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.It also says in 1 John 5:14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.So, why not pray for everyone to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth?

God hears our prayers and answers them before time began.
Our challenge is to hear what God is asking us to pray so
you get the answer He already provided.

So here is one answer: Your post has been read by web-spiders
and can soon be called up on any smart-phone in the world.

https://www.google.com/search?q=So,...aved+and+come+to+the+knowledge+of+the+truth?"
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Ultimate reconciliation means God will save everyone through the passage of time. Universalism means they're saved already.
.
I tend to look at Ultimate reconciliation with a redemptive lake of fire.
 
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ken777

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It says in 1 Timothy 2:4(God) desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

It also says in 1 John 5:14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.

So, why not pray for everyone to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth?
I certainly pray for everyone in my family to be saved.
Even though God wants all people to be saved it is not His will that He impose Himself on those who reject Him.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe. (1 Timothy 4:10)
 
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Albion

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Ultimate reconciliation means God will save everyone through the passage of time. Universalism means they're saved already.

I'm not sure that that's so, Michael. It's generally considered to be one form of Universalism if all will be saved, without exception, sooner or later. What is not considered to be Universalism is what I was referring to in post 2 (assuming that I understood the point that the OP was making). That is that all are eligible to be saved. That's not really Universalism, as I'm sure you'd agree.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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I'm not sure that that's so, Michael. It's generally considered to be one form of Universalism if all will be saved, without exception, sooner or later. What is not considered to be Universalism is what I was referring to in post 2 (assuming that I understood the point that the OP was making). That is that all are eligible to be saved. That's not really Universalism, as I'm sure you'd agree.

Yes, I agree, that both universalism and non-universalism can draw conclusions from the initial passage. It's pretty neutral and ventures into the theology of interpreting what God's desires are and what that means in terms of what he will do. Quite nebulous indeed.
 
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Albion

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Well, I believe it's possible that all humans can be saved if we but ask for this.
OK, but Universalism is a POV which holds that it's a done deal. God, in his eternal wisdom and justice, has established that all WILL be saved, whether or not we pray for it--that's Universalism.
 
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LaSorcia

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OK, but Universalism is a POV which holds that it's a done deal. God, in his eternal wisdom and justice, has established that all WILL be saved, whether or not we pray for it--that's Universalism.
But perhaps God put those verses in there knowing that someone would pray for it, and that's the means by which God will accomplish it?
 
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Albion

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But perhaps God put those verses in there knowing that someone would pray for it, and that's the means by which God will accomplish it?
If so, it's already a reality, isn't it? I mean, it's obvious that someone has already prayed such a prayer and, in fact, somebody did so before those verses were penned.

Well, anyway, it's an unusual way of looking at the matter and not the way Universalists thoughout history have thought of the matter. If it's properly to be called "Universalism" or not, I won't pursue further.
 
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alexandriaisburning

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It says in 1 Timothy 2:4(God) desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

It also says in 1 John 5:14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.

So, why not pray for everyone to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth?

Like others have mentioned, the term "universalism" is a loaded term that has a variety of interpretations. I tend to land in the camp of ultimate reconciliation, as I don't see eternal separation as being commensurate with the power and purposes of God in creation.

Of course, the conclusion one reaches on this subject will often be colored by one's assumptions about the role of God in the determination of eternal states of being.

For those that see hell as embodying some manner of "divine retribution", then universal reconciliation might seem like God going "soft" on sin, God denying God's own "justice", whatever.

On the other hand, for those that see hell as a state of cleansing/growth/purging, then universal reconciliation has no conflict with the nature and "justice" of God, for it would be one of many means by which God brings about God's good purposes for all of humanity. In such a scenario as this where "retribution" is not a factor, true "justice" lies in reconciliation, not punishment/suffering.

In my opinion, universal reconciliation is the most Christian understanding of "final things", but of course there are many opinions that would disagree :)
 
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alexandriaisburning

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All these theories are reasonable, but in the end all that matters is what God actually did decide to do, and for that we have the testimony of the Bible. IOW, all the speculation is fun but most of it is impossible.

Fair enough, but there are a number of theories and interpretations about that... :)
 
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ClementofA

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It says in 1 Timothy 2:4(God) desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

It also says in 1 John 5:14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.

So, why not pray for everyone to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth?

If God desired all people to be saved when Paul wrote 1 Timothy, did that include those already dead like Judas, Sodom, Pharoah, those of Noah's day, and the most evil God blaspheming sinners before Christ?

As to God's desire & will, does a free will of man play a part in allowing this to happen? Or does God simply overwhelm us by the force of His irresistible power and love in Christ?
 
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alexandriaisburning

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If God desired all people to be saved when Paul wrote 1 Timothy, did that include those already dead like Judas, Sodom, Pharoah, those of Noah's day, and the most evil God blaspheming sinners before Christ?

Why not? Are they not part of God's good creation, and therefore eternally objects of God's impassable love? Or is God like a human, varying in love for God's creatures based on their transgressions? If any of us have any hope, the latter certainly cannot be true.

As to God's desire & will, does a free will of man play a part in allowing this to happen? Or does God simply overwhelm us by the force of His irresistible power and love in Christ?

I would say that we will be overcome by the magnitude of our own sufferings and pain in a life lived apart from God. Facing an eternity of these unmitigated, self-inflicted wounds, I happen to think that even the hardest of hearts (perhaps even the greatest enemy) will be turned by the ever-present offer of God's unending, impassable love.
 
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ClementofA

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Why not? Are they not part of God's good creation, and therefore eternally objects of God's impassable love? Or is God like a human, varying in love for God's creatures based on their transgressions? If any of us have any hope, the latter certainly cannot be true.



I would say that we will be overcome by the magnitude of our own sufferings and pain in a life lived apart from God. Facing an eternity of these unmitigated, self-inflicted wounds, I happen to think that even the hardest of hearts (perhaps even the greatest enemy) will be turned by the ever-present offer of God's unending, impassable love.

I see no reason why God's love for sinners, & efforts to save them, ends at the point of their passing out of this life.

The Calvinist will say re 1 Tim.2:4 "all men" means "all [kinds of] men", just the elect, or some such nonsense.

The Arminian will try to weasle out of it as well. Maybe say God wishes all people to be saved, but if they die without Christ in this life, His hands are tied. They've chosen eternal hell fire.

It's a good topic.
 
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