Can salvation depend on your position on Calvinism, Arminianism or Free Grace?

FreeGrace2

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There is so much heat generated with this topic - you'd think it was the most important doctrine of all.

So, like the OP title asks - who thinks that it matters eternally what one believes about these positions?
All of these positions acknowledge that one must believe in the saving work of Christ and be trusting in His work alone for salvation.

So, it doesn't matter for salvation which view one holds.

If the question were about spiritual growth, then there could be an issue.
 
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EmSw

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There is so much heat generated with this topic - you'd think it was the most important doctrine of all.

So, like the OP title asks - who thinks that it matters eternally what one believes about these positions?

If one believes wrong, they will act wrong.
 
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Job8

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There is so much heat generated with this topic - you'd think it was the most important doctrine of all.

So, like the OP title asks - who thinks that it matters eternally what one believes about these positions?

Salvation is purely by grace through faith in the Person and Finished Work of Christ. Those who repent and obey the Gospel are saved. Those who do not are damned (Mk 16:15,16; Jn 3:36). Water baptism follows receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost (Acts 10:47).

After we are saved, we must understand God's plan of salvation clearly. God wants all men to repent (Acts 17:30) and all men to be saved (1 Tim 2:3,4). Therefore the Gospel must be preached to every creature (Mk 16:15).
 
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Tallguy88

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MOD HAT ON

Thread has undergone a cleanup. I had to delete over half of the posts as they were off topic to the subject of the OP. Please stay on topic or create a new thread if you want to talk about something else.

MOD HAT OFF
 
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bcbsr

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There is so much heat generated with this topic - you'd think it was the most important doctrine of all.

So, like the OP title asks - who thinks that it matters eternally what one believes about these positions?

It's a bit more involved. For example Free Grace theology and Arminianism deny the power of regeneration the Bible speaks of such as in 1John 3:9,10. I tried to chart out issues of monergism versus synergism regarding pre and post salvation theology, and compared to my own I came up with this:

Calvinism: Pre and Post Salvation Monergism, Eternal Security
Lutheranism: Pre Salvation Monergisim, Post-Salvation Synergism, no Eternal Security
Arminianism: Pre Salvation Synergism, Post-Salvation Synergism, no Eternal Security
The Rest of Us: Pre Salvation Synergism, Post-Salvation Monergism, Eternal Security
 
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OzSpen

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It's a bit more involved. For example Free Grace theology and Arminianism deny the power of regeneration the Bible speaks of such as in 1John 3:9,10. I tried to chart out issues of monergism versus synergism regarding pre and post salvation theology, and compared to my own I came up with this:

Calvinism: Pre and Post Salvation Monergism, Eternal Security
Lutheranism: Pre Salvation Monergisim, Post-Salvation Synergism, no Eternal Security
Arminianism: Pre Salvation Synergism, Post-Salvation Synergism, no Eternal Security
The Rest of Us: Pre Salvation Synergism, Post-Salvation Monergism, Eternal Security

This is not the Arminianism that Jacobus (James) Arminius taught. He taught 'perseverance of the saints' (Works of Jacobus Arminius, vol 1, V), which is his affirmation of eternal security. I, as a Reformed or Classical Arminian, support the biblical teaching on the perseverance of the saints.

So, can salvation depend on one's view of these three theological perspectives (as in OP)? Yes and no! Yes from a human understanding, but 'no' from God's eternal perspective. All three positions are based on divergent interpretations of Scripture.

Oz
 
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James Is Back

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This is not the Arminianism that Jacobus (James) Arminius taught. He taught 'perseverance of the saints' (Works of Jacobus Arminius, vol 1, V), which is his affirmation of eternal security. I, as a Reformed or Classical Arminian, support the biblical teaching on the perseverance of the saints.

So, can salvation depend on one's view of these three theological perspectives (as in OP)? Yes and no! Yes from a human understanding, but 'no' from God's eternal perspective. All three positions are based on divergent interpretations of Scripture.

Oz

Roger Olson was interviewed here - http://peterlumpkins.typepad.com/peter_lumpkins/2006/11/professor_roger.html and said that Arminius did reject later the doctrine of ES.
 
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OzSpen

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Roger Olson was interviewed here - http://peterlumpkins.typepad.com/peter_lumpkins/2006/11/professor_roger.html and said that Arminius did reject later the doctrine of ES.

James,

I so much appreciate the ministry of Roger Olson, a convinced Arminian and defender of Arminianism. This is what Olson said in that interview (by the way I've read that book of his on Arminian Theology):

What I say in the book is what I found in my research—there is no one Arminian view of the Perseverance of the Saints. Arminius himself never came to a definite conclusion about that subject. Arminius said several times in his various writings that Scripture wears two aspects—two things about Perseverance that we haven’t figured out yet how to reconcile—there are the warnings passages against apostasy such as Hebrews 6 and the assurance passages like Romans 8.

How to reconcile those two types of Scriptures, Arminius did not figure out. So, he left them as an open question. He adamantly insisted he did not deny Eternal Security. However, some later Arminians did reject Eternal Security—many of the Remonstrants, for example—and opt for the belief that a Christian can reject the grace of God. They used such examples as Paul’s warning to the Galatians who turned back to the Law that they would “fall from grace” (Gal 5.4). [Available at: http://peterlumpkins.typepad.com/peter_lumpkins/2006/11/professor_roger.html ]​

So, Arminius did not deny eternal security, but he struggled with what I struggle with: (1) The warning passages against apostasy and shipwrecking the faith (Heb 6:4-6; 1 Tim 1;19-20) and (2) The assurance passages of Romans 8.

Are you able to satisfactorily reconcile these two challenges?

Oz
 
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FreeGrace2

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It's a bit more involved. For example Free Grace theology and Arminianism deny the power of regeneration the Bible speaks of such as in 1John 3:9,10.
I challenge this statement regarding free grace theology. Please cite some evidence for such a claim.

I tried to chart out issues of monergism versus synergism regarding pre and post salvation theology, and compared to my own I came up with this:

Calvinism: Pre and Post Salvation Monergism, Eternal Security
Lutheranism: Pre Salvation Monergisim, Post-Salvation Synergism, no Eternal Security
Arminianism: Pre Salvation Synergism, Post-Salvation Synergism, no Eternal Security
The Rest of Us: Pre Salvation Synergism, Post-Salvation Monergism, Eternal Security
Free grace theology would fit into "the rest of us" nicely.
 
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James Is Back

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James,

I so much appreciate the ministry of Roger Olson, a convinced Arminian and defender of Arminianism. This is what Olson said in that interview (by the way I've read that book of his on Arminian Theology):

What I say in the book is what I found in my research—there is no one Arminian view of the Perseverance of the Saints. Arminius himself never came to a definite conclusion about that subject. Arminius said several times in his various writings that Scripture wears two aspects—two things about Perseverance that we haven’t figured out yet how to reconcile—there are the warnings passages against apostasy such as Hebrews 6 and the assurance passages like Romans 8.

How to reconcile those two types of Scriptures, Arminius did not figure out. So, he left them as an open question. He adamantly insisted he did not deny Eternal Security. However, some later Arminians did reject Eternal Security—many of the Remonstrants, for example—and opt for the belief that a Christian can reject the grace of God. They used such examples as Paul’s warning to the Galatians who turned back to the Law that they would “fall from grace” (Gal 5.4). [Available at: http://peterlumpkins.typepad.com/peter_lumpkins/2006/11/professor_roger.html ]​

So, Arminius did not deny eternal security, but he struggled with what I struggle with: (1) The warning passages against apostasy and shipwrecking the faith (Heb 6:4-6; 1 Tim 1;19-20) and (2) The assurance passages of Romans 8.

Are you able to satisfactorily reconcile these two challenges?

Oz

Ok here - http://www.ccel.org/ccel/arminius/works1.iv.i.html

Just by reading some of that sounds like he isn't promoting ES.

Also he says here - http://www.ccel.org/ccel/arminius/works2.ix.viii.xx.html?highlight=david#highlight

"If David had died in the very moment in which he had sinned against Uriah by adultery and murder, he would have been condemned to death eternal."

Doesn't sound like Arminius promoting ES to me.
 
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FireDragon76

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It mostly has to do with how we preach and talk about salvation. Not about the actual substance of salvation. People are not saved by believing doctrines, generally.
 
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bcbsr

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FreeGrace2

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Both of these links are quite biased against free grace theology. When I asked for evidence, I thought it would be obvious that I meant from those who accept free grace theology. I never meant from anyone who was biased against it.

That's like citing Arminians for evidence of claimed statements from Calvinists. How many Calvinists would even accept such biased "evidence"?

And read up on Zane Hodges and Charles Stanley
This is what I was looking for. But the statement fails. Why? I'm familiar with both men an their teachings, and I am SURE that neither would agree with your claim that the power of regeneration is denied.

If either man has made such a denial, then the evidence would include citations from where they made such a claim.

So, instead of this broad brush comment about reading up on them, IF either one has made such a claim, the burden of evidence is on the one making the claim about what they preach. So, please provide actual sources where either man has claimed what you've charged them with.

That's how evidence works. So far, you've provided none.
 
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