Can Matthew 10:28 and Ezek 18:4 be believed just as they are written?

[BobRyan]

As we all know - the Nicene creed does not forbid reading or quoting or believing this part of the Bible - the teachings of Jesus etc -- just as it reads.

But all have free will and not all will choose that path.

Many Christians would argue that indeed these texts can be believed - just as they are written.

Matt 10:28
28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Ezek 18:4
The soul that sins will die

Believing those texts as they read leads to accepting these texts - as they read.
============================================

Rom 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rev 20
5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

And of course these texts become easier to understand once we accept those texts as they read.

1 Tim 6:
14 that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing, 15 which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light,

Also the 1Thess 4 rapture text just as it reads.

1Thess 4
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.


John 11
11 These things He said, and after that He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.”
12 Then His disciples said, “Lord, if he sleeps he will get well.” 13 However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep.
14 Then Jesus said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead. 15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, that you may believe. Nevertheless let us go to him.”

Even Is 34 becomes easier to understand.

Is 34
Its streams shall be turned into pitch,
And its dust into brimstone;
Its land shall become burning pitch.
10 It shall not be quenched night or day;
Its smoke shall ascend forever.
From generation to generation it shall lie waste;
No one shall pass through it forever and ever.
11 But the pelican and the porcupine shall possess it,
Also the owl and the raven shall dwell in it.
And He shall stretch out over it
The line of confusion and the stones of emptiness.

 

[BobRyan]

And accepting the bible as it reads - makes it easier to understand how in Matt 22 - Christ "proves the resurrection" the future resurrection of the dead.

Matt 22
23 The same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Him and asked Him,
24 saying: “Teacher, Moses said that if a man dies, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife and raise up offspring for his brother.
25 Now there were with us seven brothers. The first died after he had married, and having no offspring, left his wife to his brother.
26 Likewise the second also, and the third, even to the seventh.
27 Last of all the woman died also.
28 Therefore, in the resurrection, whose wife of the seven will she be? For they all had her.”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God.
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.
31 But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying,
32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” 33 And when the multitudes heard this, they were astonished at His teaching.
34 But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together.

There Christ gives irrefutable proof of the future resurrection such that the Sadducees had "no place to go" and even the Pharisees admit that Christ's proof of the future resurrection - is irrefutable - inescapable!

 

[BobRyan]

Some say that the reason the Sadducees were boxed into the future resurrection as the only solution for the proof Christ gave them of the resurrection (where Christ said "God is not the God of the dead" to prove the future resurrection) -- is because of this.

Eccl 9:4-6
Isaiah 38:18-19
Psalms 146:3-4
Psalms 6:5
Psalms 30:9
Psalms 115:17

And they may be right.

Is 38
18 “For Sheol cannot thank You,
Death cannot praise You;
Those who go down to the pit cannot hope for Your faithfulness.
19 “It is the living who give thanks to You, as I do today;
A father tells his sons about Your faithfulness.

Psalm 146:3-4(NASB)
3 Do not trust in princes,
In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation.
4 His spirit departs, he returns to the earth;
In that very day his thoughts perish.

Psalm 6:5
5 For there is no mention of You in death;
In Sheol who will give You thanks?

Psalm 30:9
9 “What profit is there in my blood, if I go down to the pit?
Will the dust praise You? Will it declare Your faithfulness?


Psalms 115:17
17 The dead do not praise the Lord,
Nor do any who go down into silence;

Eccl 9:4-6
4 For whoever is joined with all the living, there is hope; surely a live dog is better than a dead lion. 5 For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten. 6 Indeed their love, their hate and their zeal have already perished, and they will no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun.

Is 66
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Mal 4
For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

Ezek 28
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.


==========================================
These texts help us know what the Sadducees might have been thinking when Christ affirms their own teaching that "God is not the God of the dead but of the living".

Thus Christ's proof of the future resurrection was bullet proof - they could not escape His conclusion so as they text says "they were put to silence"

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

Many Christians would argue that indeed these texts can be believed - just as they are written.

Matt 10:28
28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Ezek 18:4
The soul that sins will die

Believing those texts as they read leads to accepting these texts - as they read.

All scripture is read in context of all other scripture. As many verses you have quoted to support your thesis, it is not close to quoting all verses in scripture on the subject.

I will add a most simple observation. Many times in the Old Testament soul is used to refer to a person. As such, some modern translators interpret Ezekiel 18:4 with different words. If you would read all of Ezekiel 18 you would understand that the prophet is talking about an earthly life, not a spiritual soul.

 

[BobRyan]

I have not quoted all texts in the Bible nor all texts on this and every related subject. I freely admit that. The question is what would it take to believe the texts just as they are written?

Your answer can be - "This text can be accepted as written as long as we read these other two texts with it and accept them as well"

The options are wide open.

I will add a most simple observation. Many times in the Old Testament soul is used to refer to a person.

I agree.

 

[BobRyan]

. Many times in the Old Testament soul is used to refer to a person. As such, some modern translators interpret Ezekiel 18:4 with different words. If you would read all of Ezekiel 18 you would understand that the prophet is talking about an earthly life, not a spiritual soul.

In Ezek 18 - bad people die - and good people do not. This point is repeated several times during the chapter.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

In Ezek 18 - bad people die - and good people do not this point is repeated several times during the chapter.

The saints will live forever with God. This is the eternal life that Jesus mentions so many times. The big question is what happens to those that are not included in eternal life. The simplest way of expressing the condemned is that they receive the opposite of the eternal life that saints get. So scripture for simplicity say multiple times that the condemned die. But what is this punishment that is simply called death? Some people read into it as to mean that their existence vanishes. This is annihilism.

Scripture does not at every mention of eternal life explain what it will be like to live in the next age. Similarly scripture does not at every mention of those that will be condemned to "die" what that will entail. The mention of them receiving death is a short hand placeholder for a punishment that is described elsewhere in scripture.

Since you quoted the second death in Rev 20, read more of the chapter to see that death means to be thrown in the Lake of Fire where they will be tormented forever.

10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Jesus also spoke of a lasting punishment.

Mat 25:46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. 47 It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where “‘the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched.’[d]
Which is a quote from Isaiah 66:24

Luke 16:22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.

And others spoke of it.

Jude :7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

2 Thes 1:9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power.

This text is important because it teaches how to read the destruction of the soul in your quoted Mat 10:28. It might be easy for some to think of something being destroyed as its existence being over, but the Thessalonian text speaks of an everlasting destruction. This means it is not talking about annihilism, but an eternal punishment.

I would ask you to further think about the resurrection of all and their judgement. It would be silly to resurrect the condemned only to immediately kill them a second time.

 

[BobRyan]

AnticipateHisComing said: ↑
. Many times in the Old Testament soul is used to refer to a person. As such, some modern translators interpret Ezekiel 18:4 with different words. If you would read all of Ezekiel 18 you would understand that the prophet is talking about an earthly life, not a spiritual soul.

In Ezek 18 - bad people die - and good people do not. This point is repeated several times during the chapter.

The saints will live forever with God. This is the eternal life that Jesus mentions so many times. The big question is what happens to those that are not included in eternal life.

I was just responding to your post about "earthly life" - in Ezek 18 the righteous do not die.

But in this "earthly life" (sticking to that context alone) -- both the righteous and the wicked do end their "earthly life".

Since you quoted the second death in Rev 20, read more of the chapter to see that death means to be thrown in the Lake of Fire where they will be tormented forever.

10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Jesus also spoke of a lasting punishment.

Mat 25:46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” NKJV

No doubt - everlasting.

Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. 47 It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where “‘the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched.’[d]
Which is a quote from Isaiah 66:24


Is 66
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Mal 4
For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

Matt 10:28
28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Jude :7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

2 Peter 2
6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;

2 Thes 1:9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power.

This text is important because it teaches how to read the destruction of the soul in your quoted Mat 10:28.

He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes,

Jude :7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

I would ask you to further think about the resurrection of all and their judgement. It would be silly to resurrect the condemned only to immediately kill them a second time.

All of the torment and suffering of the wicked takes place "in the presence of the Lamb AND of his Angels".

Rev 14
10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Is 34
Its streams shall be turned into pitch,
And its dust into brimstone;
Its land shall become burning pitch.
10 It shall not be quenched night or day;
Its smoke shall ascend forever.
From generation to generation it shall lie waste;
No one shall pass through it forever and ever.
11 But the pelican and the porcupine shall possess it,
Also the owl and the raven shall dwell in it.
And He shall stretch out over it
The line of confusion and the stones of emptiness.

 

[BobRyan]

Some say that the reason the Sadducees were boxed into the future resurrection as the only solution for the proof Christ gave them of the resurrection (where Christ said "God is not the God of the dead" to prove the future resurrection) -- is because of this.

Eccl 9:4-6
Isaiah 38:18-19
Psalms 146:3-4
Psalms 6:5
Psalms 30:9
Psalms 115:17

And they may be right.

Is 38
18 “For Sheol cannot thank You,
Death cannot praise You;
Those who go down to the pit cannot hope for Your faithfulness.
19 “It is the living who give thanks to You, as I do today;
A father tells his sons about Your faithfulness.

Psalm 146:3-4(NASB)
3 Do not trust in princes,
In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation.
4 His spirit departs, he returns to the earth;
In that very day his thoughts perish.

Psalm 6:5
5 For there is no mention of You in death;
In Sheol who will give You thanks?

Psalm 30:9
9 “What profit is there in my blood, if I go down to the pit?
Will the dust praise You? Will it declare Your faithfulness?


Psalms 115:17
17 The dead do not praise the Lord,
Nor do any who go down into silence;

Eccl 9:4-6
4 For whoever is joined with all the living, there is hope; surely a live dog is better than a dead lion. 5 For the living know they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor have they any longer a reward, for their memory is forgotten. 6 Indeed their love, their hate and their zeal have already perished, and they will no longer have a share in all that is done under the sun.

Is 66
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Mal 4
For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

Ezek 28
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.


==========================================
These texts help us know what the Sadducees might have been thinking when Christ affirms their own teaching that "God is not the God of the dead but of the living".

Thus Christ's proof of the future resurrection was bullet proof - they could not escape His conclusion so as they text says "they were put to silence"

 

[BobRyan]

How is it that the torment and suffering of the wicked takes place "in the presence of the Lamb AND of his Angels"?

Rev 14
10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Is 34
Its streams shall be turned into pitch,
And its dust into brimstone;
Its land shall become burning pitch.
10 It shall not be quenched night or day;
Its smoke shall ascend forever.
From generation to generation it shall lie waste;
No one shall pass through it forever and ever.
11 But the pelican and the porcupine shall possess it,
Also the owl and the raven shall dwell in it.
And He shall stretch out over it
The line of confusion and the stones of emptiness.

And how is it that owls and ravens and Pelicans survive that?

 

[BobRyan]

Matt 10:28
28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

2 Peter 2
6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;

2 Thes 1:9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power.

This text is important because it teaches how to read the destruction of the soul in your quoted Mat 10:28.

He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes,

Jude :7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

 

[Timothew]

I would ask you to further think about the resurrection of all and their judgement. It would be silly to resurrect the condemned only to immediately kill them a second time.

Could you explain this a little more to me, I don't understand it. Why do you think that it would be silly for God to resurrect the wicked, judge them, condemn them to death for their wickedness and then send them to their death?
It doesn't seem "silly" to me. It seems like "justice". I don't see how there could be justice for the wicked if they are not resurrected to stand for justice before God, and then made to pay the wages of sins. I actually can't see how it could be any other way. I don't know if you believe in eternal conscious torment in hell, but if you do, why don't you also think that it would be silly to resurrect the condemned from eternal conscious torment in hell only to immediately send them back to hell for more eternal conscious torment?

 

[Timothew]

As we all know - the Nicene creed does not forbid reading or quoting or believing this part of the Bible - the teachings of Jesus etc -- just as it reads.

But all have free will and not all will choose that path.

Many Christians would argue that indeed these texts can be believed - just as they are written.

Matt 10:28
28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Ezek 18:4
The soul that sins will die

Believing those texts as they read leads to accepting these texts - as they read.
============================================

Rom 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rev 20
5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

And of course these texts become easier to understand once we accept those texts as they read.

1 Tim 6:
14 that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing, 15 which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light,

Also the 1Thess 4 rapture text just as it reads.

1Thess 4
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.


John 11
11 These things He said, and after that He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.”
12 Then His disciples said, “Lord, if he sleeps he will get well.” 13 However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep.
14 Then Jesus said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead. 15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, that you may believe. Nevertheless let us go to him.”

Even Is 34 becomes easier to understand.

Is 34
Its streams shall be turned into pitch,
And its dust into brimstone;
Its land shall become burning pitch.
10 It shall not be quenched night or day;
Its smoke shall ascend forever.
From generation to generation it shall lie waste;
No one shall pass through it forever and ever.
11 But the pelican and the porcupine shall possess it,
Also the owl and the raven shall dwell in it.
And He shall stretch out over it
The line of confusion and the stones of emptiness.

Thanks Bob, I fully agree with the Nicene Creed and I agree with all of this scripture as written.

 

[BobRyan]

I don't know if you believe in eternal conscious torment in hell, but if you do, why don't you also think that it would be silly to resurrect the condemned from eternal conscious torment in hell only to immediately send them back to hell for more eternal conscious torment?

Agreed!

This is a very interesting point. If you think God pulls the wicked out of hell - in Rev 20 (after 1000's of years of torment in hell in many cases) and then judges them to see if they are deserving of hell based on their deeds - then casts the ones deserving of hell into the lake of fire - well then... it says something about how you view the justice of God.

 

[BobRyan]

Which is why I would suggest a careful reading of the texts quoted - and to be inclined to accepting them as they read.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Matt 10
28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The word "gehenna" is a jewish thang.
That great city in Revelation that burns forever and ever could be symbolizing the OC Jerusalem in AD70.

Mat 10:28
'And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul,
but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.

Rev 18:
10 from afar having stood because of the fear of her torment, saying, Wo, wo, the great city! Babylon, the strong city! because in one hour did come thy judgment.
13 and cinnamon, and odours, and ointment, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and cattle, and sheep, and of horses, and of chariots, and of bodies and souls of men.

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/oc-jerusalem-and-lake-of-fire.7434988/
OC Jerusalem and Lake of Fire

Would that be the same as the "gehenna" Jesus talked about to the corrupt murderous Judean Rulers?

[And could you please vote so I know you responded to this thread?] Thanks and God bless

Matthew 3:7 Being aware yet many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming upon the baptism of him he said to them "generation of vipers! who shows to ye to be fleeing from the being about/melloushV <3195> (5723) Wrath

Matt 23:33 "Serpents! generation of vipers! how? ye may be fleeing from the judging of the geennhV <1067> "

Ezekiel 39:12 And house of Israel bury them so that to purify/cleanse the Land seven months.
And all of people of the Land bury them. And He becomes to them for a Name, Day of to be glorified Me, declaration of my Lord YHWH. [Revelation 19:17]

http://www.bible.ca/pre-destruction70AD-george-holford-1805AD.htm

The Destruction Of JERUSALEM
An Absolute and Irresistible PROOF OF THE DIVINE ORIGIN OF CHRISTIANITY:

"I consider the Prophecy relative to the destruction of the Jewish nation,
if there were nothing else to support Christianity, as absolutely irresistible."
(Mr. Erskine's Speech, at the Trial of Williams, for publishing Paine's Age of Reason)

 

[BobRyan]

The word "gehenna" is a jewish thang.
That great city in Revelation that burns forever and ever could be symbolizing the OC Jerusalem in AD70.

Mat 10:28
'And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul,
but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.

Revelation is written in the 90's and Jerusalem was destroyed in A.D. 70.

Rev 1 tells us that John is to " 19 Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this."

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Revelation is written in the 90's and Jerusalem was destroyed in A.D. 70.

Rev 1 tells us that John is to " 19 Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this."

I suppose that depends on which version of Revelation on chooses to use. Have you or others ever seen this version?
I would tend to go with the time that John visioned on after Jesus was taken up even tho it was not deemed as worthy of being put into the Christian cannon of the Bible.....It is interesting

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-other-revelation-version-and-mt-tabor.7266953/
The Other Revelation Version and Mt Tabor

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0831.htm

After the taking up of our Lord Jesus Christ, I John was alone upon Mount Tabor, where also He showed us His undefiled Godhead; and as I was not able to stand, I fell upon the ground, and prayed to the Lord, and said: O Lord my God, who hast deemed me worthy to be Your servant, hear my voice, and teach me about Your coming........................
................And again I heard a voice saying to me: Behold, you have heard all these things, righteous John; deliver them to faithful men, that they also may teach others, and not think lightly of them, nor cast our pearls before swine, lest perchance they should trample them with their feet. Matthew 7:6

 

[BobRyan]

Revelation is written in the 90's and Jerusalem was destroyed in A.D. 70.

Rev 1 tells us that John is to " 19 Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this."

I suppose that depends on which version of Revelation on chooses to use. Have you or others ever seen this version?
I would tend to go with the time that John visioned on after Jesus was taken up even tho it was not deemed as worthy of being put into the Christian cannon of the Bible.....It is interesting

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-other-revelation-version-and-mt-tabor.7266953/
The Other Revelation Version and Mt Tabor

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0831.htm

After the taking up of our Lord Jesus Christ, I John was alone upon Mount Tabor, where also He showed us His undefiled Godhead; and as I was not able to stand, I fell upon the ground, and prayed to the Lord, and said: O Lord my God, who hast deemed me worthy to be Your servant, hear my voice, and teach me about Your coming........................
................And again I heard a voice saying to me: Behold, you have heard all these things, righteous John; deliver them to faithful men, that they also may teach others, and not think lightly of them, nor cast our pearls before swine, lest perchance they should trample them with their feet. Matthew 7:6

Agreed it depends on which one you choose -- the one in the Bible or an entirely different document - the text at the Catholic Encyclopedia site.

God preserves the Bible - but as we saw with the many faked/forgeries of Ignatius and the "Donation of Constantine" -- it is not true that "all those other documents" are just as trustworthy if not more so - than what we have in the Bible.

 

[AnticipateHisComing]

Why do you think that it would be silly for God to resurrect the wicked, judge them, condemn them to death for their wickedness and then send them to their death?
It doesn't seem "silly" to me. It seems like "justice". I don't see how there could be justice for the wicked if they are not resurrected to stand for justice before God, and then made to pay the wages of sins. I actually can't see how it could be any other way. I don't know if you believe in eternal conscious torment in hell, but if you do, why don't you also think that it would be silly to resurrect the condemned from eternal conscious torment in hell only to immediately send them back to hell for more eternal conscious torment?

To send them to their death has a different connotation than to send them back to hell for eternal torment. You write them interchangeably but many have taken death to mean an end of existence. These are the people that believe in a annhilism. My silly argument was for those people.