can I get the catholic take on this.

[benedictaoo]

We are righteous because our life is hidden with christ in God.Jesus took our sins away. But you are not righteous apart from Christ. Don't you sin every day? the apostle John says the person who says they don't sin is a liar but if anyone does sin we have an advaocate before the father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

Kinda sorta... yes we still sin and that is the point. We still sin even after Jesus put those sins to death, so what's up with that then?

well, this is what's up... he redeemed us from the Sin of mankind and when we are baptized, we are born again and incorporated into this mystery we call salvation, (hidden) in Him.

And so now, we, with the help of His grace, both sanctifying and actual, can actully become what Christ redeemed, (died on the cross) for us all to be, which is holy and perfect as God is holy and perfect.

This is not an easy task becuase the world and our sinful desires trip us up and then there is the enemy.

So Christ was gracious enough to remain with in His Church and in the Eucharist. We also have His blessed Mother as our help and all of heaven, the angels and saints.

So we truly have all we need to defeat the enemy, and we do so by obeying God, denying the world and by taming our wild passions.

That is how we are made righteous. Through obedience, self denial and love.

I have never, ever understood the Protestants version of righteous by sinning and not doing anything to better yourself but you holy anyway... You sin but your sins don't count-- what ever, i don't get that, never did and never will.

To me, holy is and righteous is as holy and righteous does.

 

[Lady Bug]

How are we made righteous when it says in Romans how no one is righteous, not even one?

 

[kisstheson]

"I have never, ever understood the Protestants version of righteous by sinning and not doing anything to better yourself but you holy anyway... You sin but your sins don't count-- what ever, i don't get that, never did and never will."

This is not what they teach in my fellowship. We are always being taught how to better ourselves at Christians but at the same time we recognize that we can doing nothing apart from Christ. (John 15) in all things we need His grace.

"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling for it is God who is at work in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

There's the balance.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I would say it is Catholic Church teaches that, but it is more emphasized by the Orthodox

oki

I like the Eastern Catholic/ Orthodox view on a lot of stuff. I see it as a healing rather then some forensic justice.

Jesus showed us the way to the Father. That sums it up pretty good. We find the answers by looking to the cross.

He destroyed death and sin and Satan and hell by showing us what to do in the face of temptation, hate, suffering, hurt, what ever... LOVE is the answer. it is not about punishment, it's about love. he teaches us how to love and love draws down God's favor.

The two things Adam screw up on was not obeying and not loving God.

Our salvation is pretty simple and it's revealed to us in the cross. Obey God's will no matter what the cost and do it out of love, love for God and love for others.

that makes sense

We are righteous because our life is hidden with christ in God.Jesus took our sins away. But you are not righteous apart from Christ. Don't you sin every day? the apostle John says the person who says they don't sin is a liar but if anyone does sin we have an advaocate before the father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

I never said we're righteous apart from Christ

what I meant is that someday, when we're sanctified we'll actually BE righteous.. we won't sin... the Protestant say we're righteous now even in our sins. We believe that we WILL be righteous one day, by grace and our cooperation with grace.

Well he doesn't make us righteous, we become it after redemption by uniting our will to His and walking in the Spirit, denying the flesh.

I agree, but I meant that it's something that involves God's grace and not something we do all on our own... we just obey and cooperate and die to self and learn to love God

How are we made righteous when it says in Romans how no one is righteous, not even one?

it's trying to explain why we need Christ. Without Him, we wouldn't be able to become righteous. But since we are redeemed, we do have this hope. keep in mind that in heaven everyone is righteous.. there is no sin in Heaven...

in Romans it's just trying to describe that we need grace, and who we are without God.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I have never, ever understood the Protestants version of righteous by sinning and not doing anything to better yourself but you holy anyway... You sin but your sins don't count-- what ever, i don't get that, never did and never will.

I don't get it either, but I used to believe this in the past. It's funny because at the same time I got really discouraged when I sinned and wanted to stop sinning.

Whenever people say this, I wonder if they think that there is sin in Heaven...

 

[benedictaoo]

How are we made righteous when it says in Romans how no one is righteous, not even one?

We are made righteous by Him, by being born into this mystery of His death and resurrection. And once we are, it does not end there, it's just begun.

Now we are in a state of grace so that means we live and breath and have our being in Him. In Him everything we do has merit and that grace is what makes us righteous.


prior to redemption our works were just dirty rags. After, they have merit, they make us holy becuase His grace in upon us.

 

[benedictaoo]

"I have never, ever understood the Protestants version of righteous by sinning and not doing anything to better yourself but you holy anyway... You sin but your sins don't count-- what ever, i don't get that, never did and never will."

This is not what they teach in my fellowship. We are always being taught how to better ourselves at Christians but at the same time we recognize that we can doing nothing apart from Christ. (John 15) in all things we need His grace.

"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling for it is God who is at work in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

There's the balance.

well we aren't in disagreement, when we are in His grace what we do has merit but when we commit mortal sin and reject god, we live outside of that and actully lose merit.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Or you're burned at the stake like in the old days.

ooooooh *snap*

You mean by the secular courts??
So many report it was the Church who did the burning and killing.
Not so - even St Joan of Arc was on trial at the Churches court - she recanted and was sent to the secular court to be burned after recanting her recanting.

But if you look at the inquisitions, Catholics and Protestants equally killed one another. BUT between both of them - it was the government courts who killed the most.

And if i am correct - it was a total of 3000 ish that were killed.

But i said all of this before...

 

[WarriorAngel]

I don't get it either, but I used to believe this in the past. It's funny because at the same time I got really discouraged when I sinned and wanted to stop sinning.

Whenever people say this, I wonder if they think that there is sin in Heaven...

I am going to consider that they might.