What a fantastic hypothetical...
but you have writers in the Old Testament asking God to kill their enemies and in the New Testament,
Yeah right, and in the old testament we were "told" to hate our enemies, but Jesus said that rule was just so old testament...
The new "rule" is to love our enemies.
and in the New Testament, in the Book of Revelations, you have martyrs asking God to kill the inhabitants of Earth?
No, actually. This is what the verse actually says...
REV 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Nothing in there about kill. Trust is is given to the Lord to decide what "vengeance" is. It COULD be assumed that the phrase "avenge our blood" means an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth...but then again, the Revelation ALSO says that the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus: Rev 19:19. And Jesus said that an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth really just misses the spirit of the Kingdom of Heaven...
When Jesus was traveling at on point, he sent some disciples ahead of him into a village. But the village didn't didn't want Jesus. The disciples were angry, and they asked Jesus if they should call down fire from Heaven to consume such a disbelieving village. The context is that Jesus was traveling at night; he didn't even have a place to sleep. The disciples were probably counting on the hospitality of this village to help them out with a place to sleep and a bit of food, but the village refused, hence the "righteous indignation of the disciples to call fire down from Heaven".
But Jesus rebuked them, saying that the knew not what spirit they were promoting. He said that he came to save people, not destroy them.
I thought wayfaring's answer to some of the verses lonely questioned were pretty good.
emmy said:
Forgiveness is to forgive and forget what has been done to you,
I've also heard it said that to forgive is divine, but to forget is stupid. Take alcoholism or pedophilia, for example. We may be able to forgive such offenses, but it would be stupid of us to forget that such people have PROBLEMS which should not be forgotten.
Otherwise we'd be in this perpetual stupor of idiocy where people just keep getting hurt over and over and over again because we keep forgetting that there is a problem.
bra said:
In the Old Testament people killed to preserve their lives and families lives, it was often war.
Really? Sounds like modern day thinking to me. It's ALWAYS the same reasoning when it comes to war, whether it's 5000 years ago or right now...
bra said:
You also have to consider that some of what David wrote in the Psalms was simply how he felt, some people believe that not everything he wrote displayed the perfect will of God, such as the righteous bathing in the blood of the wicked. That's how he felt, I don't believe it was the will of God.
I agree, very much. No matter who the person is/was (aside form Jesus) they are not INFALLIBLE, even IF God does choose to speak through them at times. Being inspired is not the same thing as being infallible.
What Jesus said is the will of God, we must forgive. That does not mean you cannot defend yourself and protect yourself and your family.
I agree. If I saw a woman being raped, I would have no problem throwing a rock at the head of whoever was doing it, or slamming my body against the attacker to knock him out of the way. This is because I would not see this person as my "enemy" but rather, the person in trouble as my brother/sister.
Obviously, I would not want to kill the attacker but at the same time it would be unloving to the person being attacked if I just sat down, folded my hands in prayer, and asked for God to do what my God-given common sense tells me I should do. It's not hate or revenge, but just common sense. Help.
HOWEVER, my understanding of Christianity tells me that the compromise between letting others suffer or letting evil triumph is to put MYSELF in between the two. If the only way to save the victim and still NOT do harm to the attacker is to put myself in the place of the victim then I see that as a very Christian alternative to either letting the victim suffer OR doing violence to the attacker.
Forgiving people doesn't mean you let them hurt you or those you love. It just means you don't harbor resentment towards them. If someone just stole your car you should call the cops. If someone beat you up in kindergarten then you should let it go. In both cases you should forgive them, not resent what they did to you.
Generally speaking I'd agree with you, but I'm not so sure about the "calling the cops" thing. I'm not saying it's wrong to do that, but just that I think it takes a lot of wisdom to know what do to in each situation. There IS some merit in the idea of just letting it go, particularly if doing so has a direct effect on the person who stole/hurt. But even more than that, I think God is concerned about our own spiritual welfare when people hurt us, either by stealing from us or physically hurting us.
Considering that this life is so temporary and eternal life lies ahead, maybe it's okay for us to let go of stuff every now and then, whether it's material possessions or even our own physical health. Just sayin...
liars said:
God needed to lay some hurt on the people of Israel in order to save them. Our loving God in the bible does in fact hurt people. Don't ignore it just because you don't like it, because it's there.
However, that isn't to say that God isn't loving. Love can also include punishment, because it'll save us from becoming worse people. If you never discipline your children, then how will your children grow up? What kind of people will they become?
Very practical advice, liars. Thank you for sharing it.