Can atheists go to heaven?

[malvina]

If Atheists can go to heaven then it makes the whole bible null and void what was the purpose of it?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

2 Corinthians 4:4
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

2 Corinthians 6:14
14 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?

 

[Berean777]

When the leaders of denominations harp on about God is love but ignore that the Sovereign God will only be loving to those who have the blood of his only begotten Son Christ Jesus.

We are tied to God through the precious blood of his Son and just like the Israelites first born were protected by the blood of the lamb, we as Christians have been protected by the coverings of the precious blood and this is the only blood covenant that pardons us from the letter of the law that says that we have sinned and must be put to death.

Salvation comes by blood and where the Lord decides to sprinkle the precious blood of his Son will be salvation to whom he sovereignly chooses.

Many have perverted the ways of the Lord and have decieved themselves and others, thinking that God is Love and will therefore not condemn those that have no sprinkling of blood. This offcourse is the lie that those who have no sprinkling of blood are also saved and so therefore God who is Love sends those imposters a strong delusion to continue in the lie, so that he can jot them out from his book of life.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12
10and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Do not delight in wickedness says the Lord for I had long back set my plan in motion from the time in the Garden, to bring redemption to man by the blood of my only begotten Son and those who abide not in him I will jot out of the book of life.

It is written though shalt not tempt your sovereign Lord God.

 

[Berean777]

With reference to 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12, what is God's truth for a person to be saved?

The truth is to believe that Jesus is Lord to the Glory of God the Father and then be baptised and recieve the Holy Ghost who will sanctify you in your life long walk with Christ as one in Spirit with him.

As Paul writes God takes prisoners of Christ to transform them into a new creation according to the beatitudes of Christ and those without the spiritual blood relationship with his Son, the apostle John says

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them.

God sends his Holy Spirit filled witnesses to and fro throughout the world to those who he chooses to save by the preaching of the gospel of salvation.

If there are people saying that the Lord hasn't achieved in spreading the gospel in all the world and in all the languages of the world and that there are exceptions or that he has missed some who have never heard of Christ, then now is the time to speak out against the Lord and tell the congregation where he has failed to do this in the last 2000 years.

Come on speak up or for ever hold your peace.

 

[Berean777]

Many wanted to know what the lie in 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 was?

This generation has been the recipients of the lie which tries to circumvent the only salvation plan of God through the redemptive works of Christ on the cross at calvary.

We are hearing today that everyone, including Atheists are saved regardless of whether they have recieved Christ or not and so the daily sacrifice that was a one off event that atoned for the sins of many has been removed by the man of sin, who has tried to induct leaders from all denominations to embrace the LIE and to teach their congregations the LIE and to support the LIE.

Daniel 12:11
"From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.

Offcourse the cross at calvary eventually needs to be replaced by the abomination (most hated by God) that causes destruction (2 Thessalonians 2:10-12).

First the imposters are now using phase 1 by trying to silence those who abide in the truth (the cross), by using legalistic tolerance agenda to silence those true to Christ who are labelled as unloving, callous and hard-hearted.

Phase 2 comes persecution and phase 3 is the unveiling of the abomination that replaces the cross at calvary. The Cross to a true believer is what is the daily sacrifice that atones for our daily sins.

So the man of sin has instrumented this but is yet to be exposed/revealed because he works dedeptbfully. The riddle to who the man of sin is, is as follows

The Black Dragon of Apostasy sprung up from the one who sat.

The man of sin is the counterpart to John the Baptist, with the mission of preparing the way for his Lord, the devil who comes as a knight in shining armour to rescue humanity from the manufactured evils of today.

How else will the Jews believe in a manifested earthly messiah, except there be a total removal of the cross and an earthly messiah be presented to them who they will acknowledge as a first coming with the cross being negated.

The man of sin must remove the cross before his master comes on the scene.

 

[Albion]

There is, in fact, Scripture that says that God desires to save everyone. Now does God do those things that He desires, or does He not? If He desires to save all, but does not save all, then there is a real problem.

I was just thinking that you may be the most unconventional Catholic on CF, albeit the one most driven by sheer denominational loyalty.

And then I read your post above. Are you now saying that, as a good Roman Catholic, you are a believer in...Universalism/Universal Salvation?

 

[AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2]

I recently watched an old debate between Richard Dawkins and Cardinal George Pell and was struck by something the Cardinal mentioned. He was asked whether atheists can go to heaven and not only did he say yes he seemed utterly convinced of it. He didn't elaborate any further.

I thought that accepting Jesus was the only way to be saved and that God would respect the wishes of someone that rejected him. Is there anyone that agrees with the Cardinal and on what is this view based?

if a person repents and accepts the existence of GOD ..

YES..

but can't go heaven and still believe in humanism..
hm hm

 

[Optimax]

Can atheists go to heaven?

Yes.

But only if they repent and are born again (Rom 10:9)

 

[malvina]

We are hearing today that everyone, including Atheists are saved regardless of whether they have recieved Christ or not and so the daily sacrifice that was a one off event that atoned for the sins of many has been removed by the man of sin, who has tried to induct leaders from all denominations to embrace the LIE and to teach their congregations the LIE and to support the LIE.

This the New Age that we are now in - The New World Order (CERN) heralded in recently at the World Games
Displays

 

[Berean777]

This the New Age that we are now in - The New World Order (CERN) heralded in recently at the World Games
Displays

The god of science that Atheists believe in, is another front for aggression mounted against the true God of the Bible.

We are reluctantly being drawn into a conflict that will eventually happen between the angelic hosts, that I have seen in visions.

None of what has been happening surprises me because the King of this world is about to emerge from his bottomless pitt prison, that is, if he has not already done so. But he cannot be revealed just yet.

Universalism prepares Christianity to accept the lie that all humanity is saved by this marvelous being of light and in the absence of the cross. First they must remove the cross, then they will introduce the world to Lucifer their king.

The clue and warning sign is what the Jesuit founded religion Islam believes in, in regards to coming of earthly messiah masquerading as Jesus. This is their statement of belief in the Hadith

Sahih Bukhari Volume 3, Book 43, Number 656:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until the son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you as a just ruler, he will break the cross, kill the pigs, and abolish the Jizya tax. Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it (as charitable gifts).

Now you may want to know as to who the pigs are that the Hadith is alluding to. Well that would be us, true Christianity.

Read Isaiah 14 entirely for the time of Satan's coming is virtually at the door

Isaiah 14:9-11
9The realm of the dead below is all astir
to meet you at your coming; it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you—all those who were leaders in the world; it makes them rise from their thrones— all those who were kings over the nations.
10They will all respond, they will say to you, “You also have become weak, as we are; you have become like us.”
11All your pomp has been brought down to the grave, along with the noise of your harps; maggots are spread out beneath you and worms cover you.

Just as the God of the Bible came in flesh as Jesus Christ of Nazareth when Jerusalem was built up according to the prophesy of Daniel, the devil aka Lucifer has his turn at coming especially after the Jerusalem of today has been built up for his coming.

2 Thessalonians 2:9
9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie,

The lie that is universalism, that is everyone is saved without the need for the cross is what prepares way for Satan to be revealed to the world.

 

[Light of the East]

I was just thinking that you may be the most unconventional Catholic on CF, albeit the one most driven by sheer denominational loyalty.

And then I read your post above. Are you now saying that, as a good Roman Catholic, you are a believer in...Universalism/Universal Salvation?

Well, sir, first of all I am not Roman Catholic. I am Ukrainian Greek Catholic. Same bus.....different seat. There is, unfortunately, no button for us when we sign on to the board.

Secondly, there were Early Fathers who years before Augustine codified his ideas on the vengeful God and the juridical ideas of salvation, wrote on the lovely idea of God's love encompassing all people, all times, everywhere.

The Eastern thought on soteriology is that of a loving God who heals the illness of sin. The Western idea I constantly see promoted in the visions of the "seers" and the saints of the Roman Church is of an angry and vengeful God who decides to use the Jews and Romans to kick the crap out of His Son so that He doesn't have to do it to a limited number of the "elect."

I find Western theology problematic and sometimes wish that I had followed my heart into the Orthodox faith instead of Catholicism.

 

[Light of the East]

The god of science that Atheists believe in, is another front for aggression mounted against the true God of the Bible.

We are reluctantly being drawn into a conflict that will eventually happen between the angelic hosts, that I have seen in visions.

None of what has been happening surprises me because the King of this world is about to emerge from his bottomless pitt prison, that is, if he has not already done so. But he cannot be revealed just yet.

Universalism prepares Christianity to accept the lie that all humanity is saved by this marvelous being of light and in the absence of the cross. First they must remove the cross, then they will introduce the world to Lucifer their king.

The clue and warning sign is what the Jesuit founded religion Islam believes in, in regards to coming of earthly messiah masquerading as Jesus. This is their statement of belief in the Hadith,

You do know that to tell a lie is a sin, doncha?

 

[Albion]

Well, sir, first of all I am not Roman Catholic. I am Ukrainian Greek Catholic. Same bus.....different seat.

Right. I'd forgotten that you mentioned this before.

Secondly, there were Early Fathers who years before Augustine codified his ideas on the vengeful God and the juridical ideas of salvation, wrote on the lovely idea of God's love encompassing all people, all times, everywhere.

The love of God encompassing all people of all times, etc. is not tantamount to Universal Salvation. It's the latter that I was asking about.

The Eastern thought on soteriology is that of a loving God who heals the illness of sin. The Western idea I constantly see promoted in the visions of the "seers" and the saints of the Roman Church is of an angry and vengeful God who decides to use the Jews and Romans to kick the crap out of His Son so that He doesn't have to do it to a limited number of the "elect."

That's a familiar perspective, and one worth mentioning, but I still don't have your answer.

I find Western theology problematic and sometimes wish that I had followed my heart into the Orthodox faith instead of Catholicism.

So, did you mean to say "If He desires to save all, but does not save all, then there is a real problem." ?

 

[Light of the East]

So, did you mean to say "If He desires to save all, but does not save all, then there is a real problem." ?

Uhhhhhhhh....I looked back in the thread. I thought that was what I wrote??????

 

[1213]

I`m wondering what you think Romans 2:16 means

I think it means just what it says.

 

[Berean777]

Universalism is not a knew idea at all and it dates back to gnostism, where every Tom, Dick and Harry can work out their salvation according to their own flavour or bus route they so choose.

Here is an extract from a book that reveals all about the LIE of Gnosticism that now is under the cloak of a Christian enterprise. It is along the same teaching that was also conceived by crypto Gnostics who say once saved always saved. It is the same imposter at it again but now with a different spin.

Chapter 7: Three Gnostic Sects.

By J.W. HANSON, D. D.

The Basilidians. The Carpocratians.The Valentinians.

Three Gnostic sects flourished nearly simultaneously in the Second Century, all which accepted universal salvation: the Basilidians, the Valentinians, and the Carpocratians.

Here is the link below

http://www.angelfire.com/dc/universalism/threegnosticsects.html

Gnostism didn't die or go away, they simply adapted and infiltrated the Christian faith and made it out as if they are the real genuine article. In fact the Schisms were the first signs of something was not what it should be. It is like the little red riding hood story where the wolf pretends to be the grandmother.

In this matter Paul prophesied about the Gnostics eventually infiltrating within the flock of Christ.

Christ even said you shall know them by their works.

Acts 20:29-31
29I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock.30Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. 31So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.

Universalism is Gnostism

 

[Light of the East]

Universalism is not a knew idea at all and it dates back to gnostism, where every Tom, Dick and Harry can work out their salvation according to their own flavour or bus route they so choose.

That may be pagan universalism, in which case I agree with what you posted, but that is not the Christian understanding of the universal scope of God's salvation. Perhaps you should find some Christian authors and read what they had to say regarding the universal scope of God's salvation which comes only through Christ Jesus and His work on the Cross.

Big difference!

 

[Berean777]

The point is the Gnostics of yester years are today calling themselves Christian and are advocating a Gnostic Universalism salvation. This is not Christian by origin and is a doctrine that the apostles vehemently opposed.

This is what the apostles categorised as being another gospel that they did not preach.

Paul in his time even said

Acts 20:29-31
29I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock.30Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. 31So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.

 

[Berean777]

There is no universalism in Christianity. Universalism is diametrically opposed to the Lord's statement

Matthew 7:13-14
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Crypto Gnostics who have infiltrated Christianity turn the Lord's statement the other way around.

The Lord warned his body of believers that you shall know the imposters by their works.

 

[Hoghead1]

I recently watched an old debate between Richard Dawkins and Cardinal George Pell and was struck by something the Cardinal mentioned. He was asked whether atheists can go to heaven and not only did he say yes he seemed utterly convinced of it. He didn't elaborate any further.

I thought that accepting Jesus was the only way to be saved and that God would respect the wishes of someone that rejected him. Is there anyone that agrees with the Cardinal and on what is this view based?