Can a professing, saved believer lose their salvation?

[Geralt]

i feel you bro. truth is it is not he who runs first in the race, but he who endures to the end.
but the enduring is not what saves you, rather the proof that you are truly saved.

there is no argument about people 'falling away', this is a reality even in scripture. otherwise you would not have any gospel or epistles to read into, for many of the contents talks are about exhortation to persevere, to stay true, to walk in the light, etc..

but to assume these people who 'fall away' have been truly saved is another matter. simply because it disregards the nature of evil, of deception, of a lie, of heresy, the presences of cults, etc.. and most of all it downgrades and assassinates the character and power of God. in other words, the sin of unbelief.

if you would allow me to make a sharp statement: it is to sin against the holy spirit, for the work of the new creation (born again) is the work of the holy spirit alone (born of the spirit) and to assume his work is unperfect and incomplete (subject to fall away and return to an unborn state) is blasphemy of the holy spirit. so best be careful to all writers who suggests such notion.​

The fact of the matter is, a lot of people who 40 years ago said they were saved are not saved today.
There's not very may people today who say they are saved.
Most of those who say they are saved,
when they are questioned simply according to Scripture, refuse to repent of greed or serving other demons/ idols/ or giving up sinning. WILLFULLY ! They refuse to turn to Jesus to follow Him. THEY ADMIT THIS !!! OUT LOUD !!!
With sometimes a little remorse in their 'eyes'/expression/ ,
and often emptiness in their eyes as they have given up their testimony of Jesus (or they NEVER had the testimony of Jesus).

They actually and openly confess/ admit/ say out loud in their own words
that
they CANNOT do what Jesus says to do - they do not read the Bible to see what Jesus wants them to do, and they do not pray asking God what He wants them to do !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And these are 40 years "church-goers", deacons and their wives(one per),
elders and their wives(one per), and PASTORS for decades !!!

If then the tall oaks are burning, what is the lowly sagebrush to do !?!?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

you story does not fit scripture, but fits the rcc concept of salvation, a semi-pelagian heresy. for if you must fit it to scripture then you have to revise the story.

the reality is Bob- the best friend is dead. not drowning, but drowned. He cannot even respond, He will not, He is not able.

that is why rick does not just offer his hand and wait for Bob, Rick jumps into the water, miraculously brings hims to life (born again), and doesn't let go of him (even though Bob struggles) while he swims to the boat or shore and takes him home.

that is the gospel friend.​

Sorry, to burst your bubble, but the gospel is not described in such a way as you define it at all within the Bible.

Here is what the Scriptures say about the gospel,

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
(1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

"Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed." (1 Corinthians 15:11).​

So the gospel does is not .... "ye have been regenerated and so ye believed." That isn't even the gospel! The gospel is believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins and that He rose from the dead three days later on your behalf.

Now, how does one receive the gospel? Well, the gospel is preached, and so ye believed.

That is how!


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[Bible Highlighter]

- who else can regenerate man but the Holy Spirit ? that is why it is called 'born again' or 'born of the spirit'. i'm not even sure why you are asking this question.

- obviously he wants to invite everyone to come to Him. it is not a lie, unless you presume Christ is not sinless and has sinned by lying. man's capacity has nothing to do with it. it was a general invitation, much like the gospel is an invitation for all.

- because God has made a covenant with their forefathers, and they as a nation, in return, have always broken their covenant.

- there is no issue in abiding with christ, or using our own choices. we as sentient human beings always choose according to what we DESIRE the most, regenerate or not.

- "a person has to cooperate with the Lord"- this line is famously used by the rcc, which uses the same concept as your story, that suggests christ is on the outside offering his hand, say to you, and in return you have to do something/ some work, which in this case is the effort to cooperate. sorry this wording-concept is not biblical, it is common to all other religion, but not biblical Christianity.​

I am not going to go any further in discussing this topic with you unless you explain some of the verses in my previous post (involving how one can fall away). Again, Scripture is our authority and not opinions.


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[Gregory Thompson]

Can someone who is born again become unborn again? hmmm sounds like a zombie.

 

[Geralt]

site your verses, and the answer is still the same. there is NO issue with falling away, you really don't have to hammer this issue, and i agree with you.

the problem is your underlying assumption (which you do not want to discuss)-> "how ONE can fall away" -> wherein you assumed the One you describe is regenerate or not.​

I am not going to go any further in discussing this topic with you unless you explain some of the verses in my previous post (involving how one can fall away). Again, Scripture is our authority and not opinions.
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[Geralt]

jason thinks so, someone who is a new creation can come back to an old creation by the exercise of his own will. truth to tell, i doubt Jason even knows what happens to someone who is a new creation. its a version of a puny god, who saves people but never changes them permanently.

Can someone who is born again become unborn again? hmmm sounds like a zombie.

 

[Geralt]

that is well and good no issue in the preaching and believing of the gospel.

the question you should be asking is why do some people hear and accept the gospel, and the others hear and do NOT accept the gospel ?
​

Sorry, to burst your bubble, but the gospel is not described in such a way as you define it at all within the Bible.

Here is what the Scriptures say about the gospel,

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
(1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

"Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed." (1 Corinthians 15:11).​

So the gospel does is not .... "ye have been regenerated and so ye believed." That isn't even the gospel! The gospel is believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins and that He rose from the dead three days later on your behalf.

Now, how does one receive the gospel? Well, the gospel is preached, and so ye believed.

That is how!


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[yeshuaslavejeff]

Now, how does one receive the gospel? Well, the gospel is preached, and so ye believed.

that is well and good no issue in the preaching and believing of the gospel.
the question you should be asking is why do some people hear and accept the gospel, and the others hear and do NOT accept the gospel ?

WHERE ?
Where ?
Have you(anyone) heard the Gospel of Jesus preached ANYWHERE?
Anywhere?
Anywhere ?
(in Truth(Jesus, not man's). )

Footnote: Preaching the Gospel of Jesus is NOT PERMITTED on the internet.
That's against the rules.

 

[Geralt]

no need to panic, it was just a point of argument post #22.

WHERE ?
Where ?
Have you(anyone) heard the Gospel of Jesus preached ANYWHERE?
Anywhere?
Anywhere ?
(in Truth(Jesus, not man's). )

Footnote: Preaching the Gospel of Jesus is NOT PERMITTED on the internet.
That's against the rules.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Can someone who is born again become unborn again? hmmm sounds like a zombie.

If you were to look at reality, a person is born into this world and then they they later can die. So the reality is that a believer is not unborn when they commit a grevious sin (like adultery, or murder, etc.) and when they refuse to repent of such sin, but the reality is that they will die spiritually. This is expressed in the Parable of the Prodigal Son. When the son returns home (seeking forgiveness before heaven and his father), his father says that he was dead and is alive again (two times). This parable is speaking in spiritual terms and not physical terms. So the son was dead spiritually when he was in his riotous life of sin, but when he came back home (seeking forgiveness) he was alive again. For in Jude, there are fake believers amongst the real saints who feed themselves (concerning the Lord's supper which is a part of weekly fellowship) without fear. These fake believers are said to be twice dead and plucked up by the roots. Meaning, they were dead once when they were an unbeliever and they were dead a second time after they chose to live in sin or teach a sin and still be saved doctrine after having served the Lord faithfully for a specific amount of time.

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[Bible Highlighter]

site your verses, ​

Here ya go.

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...r-lose-their-salvation.7960306/#post-69975858

So please explain them.
Or at least explain a couple of them.

If you cannot do so, I am just going to assume you do not know how to explain them and you are just pushing an unbiblical belief upon me with a magician's slight of hand type magic trick (i.e. you are focusing a laser beam on a certain set of passages and yet ignoring others). Meaning, you are getting folks to see what you want them to see.

So I challenge you, to explain the verses I brought forth (not just to show me), but to show others here that what you say is really true.

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[Bible Highlighter]

jason thinks so, someone who is a new creation can come back to an old creation by the exercise of his own will. truth to tell, i doubt Jason even knows what happens to someone who is a new creation. its a version of a puny god, who saves people but never changes them permanently.

Well, actually I believe in Sinless Perfectionism and that a believer goes thru the Sanctification process whereby they are conformed more into the likeness of Christ's image every day. Galatians 5:24 says they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. 1 Peter 4:1 says that he that has suffered in the flesh has ceased (stopped) from sin. The 144,000 (which is a part of future prophecy) are found without fault before the throne of God (Revelation 14:3-5).


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[Bible Highlighter]

that is well and good no issue in the preaching and believing of the gospel.

the question you should be asking is why do some people hear and accept the gospel, and the others hear and do NOT accept the gospel ?
​

People accept or reject the gospel based on their individual free will choice. Most adults in this world have the equal capacity or choice or opportunity to accept or reject the gospel. If this was not so, then Jesus could not have said this...

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God's messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn't let me." (Matthew 23:37 NLT).​

But... you....wouldn't....let...me.

Huh!

Very interesting words from our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus desired to save Jerusalem or gather them like children and or like a hen seeks to gather it's chicks, but they would not allow Jesus to do so.

So here we see God's will and desire not overthrowing man's will or desire.


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[Bible Highlighter]

WHERE ?
Where ?
Have you(anyone) heard the Gospel of Jesus preached ANYWHERE?
Anywhere?
Anywhere ?
(in Truth(Jesus, not man's). )

Footnote: Preaching the Gospel of Jesus is NOT PERMITTED on the internet.
That's against the rules.

Well, it depends on what country you are living in.
Last I checked in the U.S., you can legally access videos or aticles on the internet of the entire Bible and or sermons that preach the gospel.
Most countries this is possible at this point in time.


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[Gregory Thompson]

jason thinks so, someone who is a new creation can come back to an old creation by the exercise of his own will. truth to tell, i doubt Jason even knows what happens to someone who is a new creation. its a version of a puny god, who saves people but never changes them permanently.

Kind of like those emotional revivals that do nothing to change society type thing.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

If you were to look at reality, a person is born into this world and then they they later can die. So the reality is that a believer is not unborn when they commit a grevious sin (like adultery, or murder, etc.) and when they refuse to repent of such sin, but the reality is that they will die spiritually. This is expressed in the Parable of the Prodigal Son. When the son returns home (seeking forgiveness before heaven and his father), his father says that he was dead and is alive again (two times). This parable is speaking in spiritual terms and not physical terms. So the son was dead spiritually when he was in his riotous life of sin, but when he came back home (seeking forgiveness) he was alive again. For in Jude, there are fake believers amongst the real saints who feed themselves (concerning the Lord's supper which is a part of weekly fellowship) without fear. These fake believers are said to be twice dead and plucked up by the roots. Meaning, they were dead once when they were an unbeliever and they were dead a second time after they chose to live in sin or teach a sin and still be saved doctrine after having served the Lord faithfully for a specific amount of time.

...

I still think the point of that parable is to cultivate the heart of the Father inside of you.
.
The prodigal son is the gentiles and the elder son was the jews, but the figure fits into a number of situations.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Kind of like those emotional revivals that do nothing to change society type thing.

First of all, I explained that is not what I believe. For he is making a statement about my belief that is not true. Second, our battle is a spiritual one and not a physical one. For the weapons of our warefare are not carnal; And God is our warrior, our Savior, our protector, and our trust (even if this body were to be destroyed). If there is going to be a change it is going to come from God working thru His people. Not in a political sense, or in a worldly way, but by the transformation of men (who are pure in heart) by the power of the Spirit.


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[Gregory Thompson]

First of all, I explained that is not what I believe. For he is making a statement about my belief that is not true. Second, our battle is a spiritual one and not a physical one. For the weapons of our warefare are not carnal; And God is our warrior, our Savior, our protector, and our trust (even if this body were to be destroyed). If there is going to be a change it is going to come from God working thru His people. Not in a political sense, or in a worldly way, but by the transformation of men by the power of the Spirit.


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Oh sorry, I didn't mean I agreed with him, I was making a parable to indicate I understand what he said.
.
I personally don't know anyone who'd ever believe in a puny god.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I still think the point of that parable is to cultivate the heart of the Father inside of you.
.
The prodigal son is the gentiles and the elder son was the jews, but the figure fits into a number of situations.

While it is possible that the Parable can be interpreted in this way and it does appear to fit, there is always an obvious primary meaning to a Parable to start. It's obvious meaning is a direct contrast of the physical world relating to the spiritual world. For many of Jesus's parables behave in this same exact pattern. Those who do not understand them in this way, merely try to make the parable say something else because they do not like it's true message.


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[Gregory Thompson]

While it is possible that the Parable can be interpreted in this way and it does appear to fit, there is always an obvious primary meaning to a Parable to start. It's obvious meaning is a direct contrast of the physical world relating to the spiritual world. For many of Jesus's parables behave in this same exact pattern. Those who do not understand them in this way, merely try to make the parable say something else because they do not like it's true message.


...

Parables start from the creation, and use what is to explain what is obscure