Can a christian loose his salvation?

[lori milne]

According to scripture yes
According to man no

Who shall I believe


This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God
Gal [bless and do not curse]5‬:[bless and do not curse]16-21‬

 

[razzelflabben]

one of the great debates of the church and one that often deteriorates into flaming pretty quickly.

The problem as I see it, boils down to this, scripture tells us that we are secure in our salvation, even that we have been given a guarantee of that salvation.

One group takes this as the totality of scripture, rather than seeing it as part of the whole teaching. In fact, your passage above is part of the whole teaching in which we can walk away from God and in doing so, we remove our guarantee, we remove His promise, we remove His Love from our lives.

Ask the can't walk away crowd some hard questions and they readily resort to flaming, so as your threat continues, have fun and guard yourself against reacting to the flaming

May you know truth as God ordains it, resolve to stand firm in that truth, and the patience to avoid arguments that lead to divisions and dissensions.

 

[Humbly]

Lets find chapter and verse in the Bible.

Hebrews 2
King James Bible

1Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.

2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward

3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

2 john 1:9
King James Bible
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
1 tim 4:16

King James Bible
Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

 

[lori milne]

Lets find chapter and verse in the Bible. Hebrews 2 King James Bible 1Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. 2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward 3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? 2 john 1:9 King James Bible Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 1 tim 4:16 King James Bible Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

amen!
it is the word of God we should consult amen not men

 

[lori milne]

one of the great debates of the church and one that often deteriorates into flaming pretty quickly. The problem as I see it, boils down to this, scripture tells us that we are secure in our salvation, even that we have been given a guarantee of that salvation. One group takes this as the totality of scripture, rather than seeing it as part of the whole teaching. In fact, your passage above is part of the whole teaching in which we can walk away from God and in doing so, we remove our guarantee, we remove His promise, we remove His Love from our lives. Ask the can't walk away crowd some hard questions and they readily resort to flaming, so as your threat continues, have fun and guard yourself against reacting to the flaming May you know truth as God ordains it, resolve to stand firm in that truth, and the patience to avoid arguments that lead to divisions and dissensions.[/QUOTE
It is a trial but I'm holding fast to the faith
Amen

 

[lori milne]

You evidently were raised Protestant and not Catholic or Orthodox.

Yes I'm not a catholic or Jewish
But if I had to Masonic Jew is what I like to listen to in teachings or bible study

 

[razzelflabben]

Lets find chapter and verse in the Bible.

Hebrews 2
King James Bible

1Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.

2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward

3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

2 john 1:9
King James Bible
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
1 tim 4:16

King James Bible
Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

one of the misconceptions about the topic is that a sin can cause us to lose our salvation. As we see here, it isn't about a sin here or there that we are talking about when we talk about walking away from God, in fact, II John 1:9 talks about sinning but still abiding in the doctrine of Christ. This involves confession and repentance, but is not what is being referred to when talking about walking away from or falling away from God. In fact, to fall away would include walking away from the doctrine of Christ, no longer abiding in Him and the truth of salvation.

Just talking about misconceptions, not pointing to what anyone specifically believes here since you didn't tell us what you wanted these passage to support on the topic at hand.

 

[lori milne]

one of the misconceptions about the topic is that a sin can cause us to lose our salvation. As we see here, it isn't about a sin here or there that we are talking about when we talk about walking away from God, in fact, II John 1:9 talks about sinning but still abiding in the doctrine of Christ. This involves confession and repentance, but is not what is being referred to when talking about walking away from or falling away from God. In fact, to fall away would include walking away from the doctrine of Christ, no longer abiding in Him and the truth of salvation. Just talking about misconceptions, not pointing to what anyone specifically believes here since you didn't tell us what you wanted these passage to support on the topic at hand.

Nice point I do see it is truly view point for the most part. It's almost like people are saying the same thing " some times

But I do see a lot of people living in justified sin with no true fear of God /loosing salvation.
Or living in the we are sinners but we won't want to sin sinning still life?

And that's all a recipe built to tear down true Faith in a Christian.

OSAS and CALV or hyper grace takes a big chunk out of the word of God & it seems no one really sees or understand what predestination for instance really involves or takes out of the bible it it is in fact true.

For example true CALV not OSAS
Election would mean God has a control of free will To stop sin in a mans life
Then that is he create sin
And that goes into the devil is a victim because he had no choice
Now God is the bad Guy and we are basically robots :/
It takes away all of the fear of God away
It takes all jesus teachings away
Amen

 

[Humbly]

John 15
King James Bible
Jesus the True Vine
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
9
As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
11
These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

12This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

 

[lori milne]

By "Orthodox" I meant Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Christians. Together with Catholics globally that make up a huge chunk of Christianity world wide. Both of them teach that baptized Christians may well be damned to hell when they die. In fact, when I was raised Catholic from the cradle never were we really focused on the possibility others may be get damned to hell, so much as worried about ourselves getting damned to hell. That's why the sacrament of confession exists. So, in other words Catholicism and Orthodoxy teach what you say scripture teaches. Yet "man" makes up both those Churches.

I thought u meant Orthodox Jew lol
I know the reformation / CALV was driven by the Catholics and when they attempted to change the received KJV to fit the reformations teachings the English went to war with them and the their translations/ versions went into exile until the 1900

CALV and all the branches attached to the theology take hell or damnation out.

But the prodistin or Luthers actual teachings say you can loose your salvation.

Im still attempting to learn from both sides because it is important to weigh it all out

But so far it's pretty clear what the bible says vs the theology

 

[razzelflabben]

Nice point I do see it is truly view point for the most part. It's almost like people are saying the same thing " some times

But I do see a lot of people living in justified sin with no true fear of God /loosing salvation.
Or living in the we are sinners but we won't want to sin sinning still life?

And that's all a recipe built to tear down true Faith in a Christian.

OSAS and CALV or hyper grace takes a big chunk out of the word of God & it seems no one really sees or understand what predestination for instance really involves or takes out of the bible it it is in fact true.

For example true CALV not OSAS
Election would mean God has a control of free will To stop sin in a mans life
Then that is he create sin
And that goes into the devil is a victim because he had no choice
Now God is the bad Guy and we are basically robots :/
It takes away all of the fear of God away
It takes all jesus teachings away
Amen

amen...my main point is that people aren't listening to one another on the topic, but you hit one of the biggest problems with the OSAS side of the issue.

The other extreme, would say that we have to earn our salvation, that one sin can send us to hell, etc. Which is no more true then the traditionally held OSAS/calv. position. This, like so many of the topics argued by the church are not an either/or but a both/and....for example, we have security but we can also push God and His salvation out of our lives. IT's both/and, not either/or.

Another things I wanted to point out here since you brought it up is the idea of predestination. In context, predestination is basically, God designing man to be like Christ, it is His design to call all men to come, it isn't about some superiority or elitism. The basic problem with the entire debate is that people don't listen to one another, thus reinventing it to the extremes and calling it wisdom. Truth be told, God's wisdom is all that matters and in order to know that, we need two things, 1. the totality of the Word and 2. the witness of truth within by the HS.

Again, amen and amen...I'm enjoying getting to know you

 

[lori milne]

amen...my main point is that people aren't listening to one another on the topic, but you hit one of the biggest problems with the OSAS side of the issue. The other extreme, would say that we have to earn our salvation, that one sin can send us to hell, etc. Which is no more true then the traditionally held OSAS/calv. position. This, like so many of the topics argued by the church are not an either/or but a both/and....for example, we have security but we can also push God and His salvation out of our lives. IT's both/and, not either/or. Another things I wanted to point out here since you brought it up is the idea of predestination. In context, predestination is basically, God designing man to be like Christ, it is His design to call all men to come, it isn't about some superiority or elitism. The basic problem with the entire debate is that people don't listen to one another, thus reinventing it to the extremes and calling it wisdom. Truth be told, God's wisdom is all that matters and in order to know that, we need two things, 1. the totality of the Word and 2. the witness of truth within by the HS. Again, amen and amen...I'm enjoying getting to know you

I do like finding people who are of true understandings do wisdom
job 28:1-28
I wish it didn't ruffle so many feathers I don't wish to stumble anyone in the faith .

And truly I have been learning both sides to see the differences and similarities

I do see this teaching everywhere as well as this debate in each church lol
Calvary chapel chuck smith even went from CALV to free will and it actually separated the pastors up in teachings now some teach CALV some OSAS and some free willow turn and burn
Lol
I only know this because I'm part of the ministry my self and know a lot of the pastors personably .
Some even go back and forth to be mutual to the congregation but overall the confusion of it is I fact in almost all churches today

I searched for this because " a family member was in iniquity and he justified it" I never my self understood or believed that idea? mine always was based off the bible :/ I had no clue their was such a think as OSAS or CALV
So I tried reasoning with him and nothing worked
So I figured maybe God will do it and that's when learned about this whole thing

The man finally repented " I hope anyways"
But he doesn't justify his sins and is on the same search as my self true understanding wisdom
True Faith righteousness and Gods favor / Grace

I'm still learning all this but every chapter and book I read only reconfirms what God put on my heart so many years ago

 

[grasping the after wind]

You can no more lose your salvation than you can win your salvation. You are saved by Christ ,you do not earn salvation .Either You deny Christ and are not saved or you accept Christ and are saved. The saving is not your doing and cannot be undone by you. You can reject being saved but you cannot lose salvation like a set of car keys you laid down somewhere and cannot find. You must actively throw it away by rejecting Christ.

 

[lori milne]

You can no more lose your salvation than you can win your salvation. You are saved by Christ ,you do not earn salvation .Either You deny Christ and are not saved or you accept Christ and are saved. The saving is not your doing and cannot be undone by you. You can reject being saved but you cannot lose salvation like a set of car keys you laid down somewhere and cannot find. You must actively throw it away by rejecting Christ.

Thanks for the resoonce
Please provide scripture to help me see this
My view is based in the bible and can't see any ware about salvation being Anything but the rapture or CHRIST him self coming to save us
Romans 3:25
Explains that the sins that are under remission are past repented.
I'm still learning so in good cheer amen

 

[faroukfarouk]

Romans 8.38-39

 

[razzelflabben]

I do like finding people who are of true understandings do wisdom
job 28:1-28
I wish it didn't ruffle so many feathers I don't wish to stumble anyone in the faith .

And truly I have been learning both sides to see the differences and similarities

I do see this teaching everywhere as well as this debate in each church lol
Calvary chapel chuck smith even went from CALV to free will and it actually separated the pastors up in teachings now some teach CALV some OSAS and some free willow turn and burn
Lol
I only know this because I'm part of the ministry my self and know a lot of the pastors personably .
Some even go back and forth to be mutual to the congregation but overall the confusion of it is I fact in almost all churches today

I searched for this because " a family member was in iniquity and he justified it" I never my self understood or believed that idea? mine always was based off the bible :/ I had no clue their was such a think as OSAS or CALV
So I tried reasoning with him and nothing worked
So I figured maybe God will do it and that's when learned about this whole thing

The man finally repented " I hope anyways"
But he doesn't justify his sins and is on the same search as my self true understanding wisdom
True Faith righteousness and Gods favor / Grace

I'm still learning all this but every chapter and book I read only reconfirms what God put on my heart so many years ago

May you discover the living God as you search for Him over traditions, teachings, and opinions.

 

[lori milne]

May you discover the living God as you search for Him over traditions, teachings, and opinions.

Thank you friend
Stay in Gods favor

 

[lori milne]

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; ([bless and do not curse]1 Timothy‬ [bless and do not curse]2‬:[bless and do not curse]3-5‬ KJV)

 

[Wryetui]

The Bible says that the salvation has to be worked, is not something you already have it and you can't be sure about it, as I posted on the another post:

Philippians 2:12
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Philippians 3:12-14
12 I don’t mean that I am exactly what God wants me to be. I have not yet reached that goal. But I continue trying to reach it and make it mine. That’s what Christ Jesus wants me to do. It is the reason he made me his. 13 Brothers and sisters, I know that I still have a long way to go. But there is one thing I do: I forget what is in the past and try as hard as I can to reach the goal before me. 14 I keep running hard toward the finish line to get the prize that is mine because God has called me through Christ Jesus to life up there in heaven.


2 Corinthians 4:16
16 That is why we never give up. Our physical body is becoming older and weaker, but our spirit inside us is made new every day.


Hebrews 12:1
We have all these great people around us as examples. Their lives tell us what faith means. So we, too, should run the race that is before us and never quit. We should remove from our lives anything that would slow us down and the sin that so often makes us fall.


Matthew 10:22
22 Everyone will hate you because you follow me. But the one who remains faithful to the end will be saved.

Luke 21:19
19 You will save yourselves by continuing strong in your faith through all these things.

John 15:6
6 If you don’t stay joined to me, you will be like a branch that has been thrown out and has dried up. All the dead branches like that are gathered up, thrown into the fire and burned.

Acts 14:22
22 In those cities they helped the followers grow stronger in their faith and encouraged them to continue trusting God. They told them, “We must suffer many things on our way into God’s kingdom.”

Hebrews 3:14
14 We have the honor of sharing in all that Christ has if we continue until the end to have the sure faith we had in the beginning.

As you see, the Bible states clearly that salvation can be lost if you get aways from it's path, and there are a lot of more verses. The early christians, Fathers and saints consideret it that way, there was no need of the Reform to change it. Sorry if I sound rude but I have to deffend the truth about Christ.

Of course you can lose salvation, imagine you some day "accept" Jesus into your life, then on a year from there you become an atheist and start murder people, will you be saved anyway?

 

[FireDragon76]

I don't believe anyone can guarantee that you are saved for all time, Scripture doesn't teach "once saved, always saved". But if we have faith and repent, we have that assurance that God unconditionally forgives the repentant- it's a promise God has made in a covenant to us through Jesus Christ. Faith is not some kind of license to live however you want, for sure, but neither does God expect moral perfection.