Can 1 Corinthians 13:11 be quoted as a discussion on Salvation?

[Bible Highlighter]

Can 1 Corinthians 13:11 be quoted as a discussion on Salvation?

I believe that the answer to this question would be a... "yes."

Here is the verse.

"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things" (1 Corinthians 13:11).​

Now, yes, it is true. 1 Corinthians 13:11 is in context to the following passage in the next chapter.

For it says,

19 "Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: but in malice be children, but in understanding be men.
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, says the Lord.
22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serves not for them that believe not, but for them that believe."​

For 1 Corinthians 13:8 says this,

"Love never fails: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away."​

See, the Corinthians were speaking in an unknown tongue with no interpreter. Paul says love is better and to speak with the understanding is better (By having an interpreter). For whether there be prophecies and tongues, in time they will vanish away. But love never vanishes. Love will always be. So when this world passes away, love will still remain.

In other words, one is not really loving the brethren if they are just speaking gibberish to them that they cannot understand. We are to edify each other and lift each other up. Otherwise we are just a noisey cymbal or clanging gong.

This is the context of 1 Corinthians 13:11.

But we also have to ask ourselves in verse 11,

What other childish things are we putting away according to the context?

Is Paul just speaking in tongues and prophecies alone?

No. Paul also says,

3 "And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not love, it profits me nothing.
4 Love suffers long, and is kind; love envies not; love vaunts not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Does not behave itself rudely, seeks not her own, is not easily provoked, keeps no record of evil;
6 Rejoices not in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;"
(1 Corinthians 13:3-6).​

See, Paul says here that if we give all our good to feed the poor and even sacrifice our body to be burned, it is unprofitable if we have not love.

We see something similar of this in Revelation.

"To the angel of the church in Ephesus write:

"These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands: I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false. You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary."
(Revelation 2:1-3 NIV).​

Sounds like they are in pretty good shape with the Lord, right?

However, the Word continues and says this about them,

"Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken your first love. Remember the height from which you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate." (Revelation 2:4-6 RSV).​

In other words, if we do not have love, it profits us nothing.
Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments.
Somehow there is something that this church is not repenting of.
It is so serious that God is threatening to remove their lampstand if they do not repent of such a thing.
They have forsaken their first love.
They have no love.
This is what Paul is talking about in 1 Corinthians 13.

If I give all my goods to the poor and have not love, it profits me nothing.
We have to have a true and correct love and zeal for God according to His Word.
We have to make sure our hearts are right with the Lord before helping others.
We have to makes sure we are truly loving others in accordance to His Word.

Is this enough to effect our salvation?

Removing a church's lampstand is removing their light.
This is not good.
A church cannot stand and shine light unto others if their light is out.
If one's light is out, they are not saved.
The light is Jesus Christ.
This light shines thru His body.
A person cannot be saved without Jesus.
For he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12).
And he that does not love does not know God (1 John 4:8).

So what are the other childish things a believer must put away and be loving?

We are not to be puffed up according to 1 Corinthians 13:4.

Is being puffed up a salvation issue?

Well, Scripture says, God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. (James 4:6).
And we know in the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee that the man who cried out to God over his sin was considered humble and he was more justified than the Pharisee who thought he was better than the Tax Collector (Luke 18:9-14).

So I would say that the putting away of childish things (like being "puffed up" and "not having love") are salvation issues. So yes, while 1 Corinthians 13:11 relates to the speaking of tongues in prophesying in 1 Corinthians 14, it also talking about other childish things that we need to put away that do relate to our salvation.


...

 

[ZacharyB]

Yes, any spiritual power gifts (1 Corinthians 12)
that we may have been given by Jesus Himself
has nothing to do with our salvation.
For confirmation, please see Matthew 7:21-23.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Sure, but a single post may be enough to convince you and save us the work of creating a new thread. If this post does not convince, I WILL start a new thread.

Let's start here:


1 Corinthians 12:7 NET Bible
To each person the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the benefit of all.


This verse tells us that each believer has received a gift to bless the church.


12:31But you should be eager for the greater gifts. And now I will show you a way that is beyond comparison.


This tells us that the believer should be eager to possess the greater gifts. However the best gifts are not the revelation gifts, but the lifestyle gifts, faith, hope and love. And the greatest is love.


Why is love the greatest gift? Because if a believer is a genius, can understand and teach the most difficult Bible topic, but does not love, then he is like a loud bell.

What example can i give?

If i share that the essence of the Bible is to treat others as i would like to be treated, and then tell a brother who is cold and hungry that i would pray for him, that is exactly where the situation described in the text has been displayed. My life is not agreeing with my views. I'm like a noisy bell.

Love blesses the church like no other gift can bless. Bible knowledge is like a child talking, because perfect knowledge will be possessed only when we see God face to face. At that time, my childish knowledge will be useless and must be put away, but my experience with using my gift of love will never be put away.

Knowledge ends, but love does not.



I'm afraid there is no teaching in the Bible which says we will become perfect in our knowledge about God in this world, or that knowing right and wrong makes us fall under the oppression of the law, if that is what you're saying:

Jason 0047 wrote:
But we are not children or individuals who are unaware of right from wrong.

God's Word says,

"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things."
(1 Corinthians 13:11).


Our knowledge is book knowledge like reading a travel magazine, a biography. True knowledge only comes when we see the place with our own eyes, meet the person written about.

Our freedom from the jurisdiction of the law does not happen because we lack the knowledge of good and evil like Adam, or minors, or the insane. Our freedom from the persecution of the law comes because the old humanity, which was a party to the old covenant, has died in Christ. We are free to become members of the new man, risen in Christ, and thus be a party to the new covenant.

Thanks for reading and God bless you too.

First, as for love being a gift: Well, just because love has effected a person and they have been regenerated does not mean their free will is no longer in existence anymore. A believer can choose to act contrary to their good nature (that was regenerated) and they act contrary to the wooing of the good things that the Spirit wants to do in their life that are loving and good. We are not love robots after becoming believers in Jesus Christ.

Second, nowhere did I say we will have perfect and or complete knowledge in this life. But we do have to have knowledge of God's Word (of the knowledge that God wants us to know). For God's people are destroyed for lack of knowledge (Hosea 4:6); And we are to study to show ourselves approved unto God (2 Timothy 2:15).

Third, you believe that you are not under the penalty of the Law (salvation wise) even despite us knowing right from wrong. So does this mean you can murder, rape, hate, steal, commit adultery, and get drunk and still be saved? Are you not under the Law in regards to those things? If that is what you are saying, then do you not know the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? (1 Corinthians 6:9). For all those who declare to be a part of Christ's Kingdom will be removed by Christ's angels and thrown into the fire to be destroyed if they commit iniquity (sin) (Matthew 13:41-42). For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

Four, the "putting away of childish things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:11) is not talking about how we will put away our temporary knowledge whereby all things will be revealed when we die (if that is what you are suggesting). The putting away of childish things would be: "being puffed up" and "not having love" (among other things mentioned in 1 Corinthians 13).


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, any spiritual power gifts (1 Corinthians 12)
that we may have been given by Jesus Himself
has nothing to do with our salvation.
For confirmation, please see Matthew 7:21-23.

Please read a little more closely to what I had said.

I am not saying that "not prophesying" (Which is a gift) is a salvation issue.
I am saying that putting away childish things like "being puffied up" (See 1 Corinthians 13:8) is a salvation issue (Which relates to 1 Corinthians 13:11).


...

 

[Wordkeeper]

Can 1 Corinthians 13:11 be quoted as a discussion on Salvation?

I believe that the answer to this question would be a... "yes."

Here is the verse.

"When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things" (1 Corinthians 13:11).​

Now, yes, it is true. 1 Corinthians 13:11 is in context to the following passage in the next chapter.

For it says,

19 "Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: but in malice be children, but in understanding be men.
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, says the Lord.
22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serves not for them that believe not, but for them that believe."​

For 1 Corinthians 13:8 says this,

"Love never fails: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away."​

See, the Corinthians were speaking in an unknown tongue with no interpreter. Paul says love is better and to speak with the understanding is better (By having an interpreter). For whether there be prophecies and tongues, in time they will vanish away. But love never vanishes. Love will always be. So when this world passes away, love will still remain.

In other words, one is not really loving the brethren if they are just speaking gibberish to them that they cannot understand. We are to edify each other and lift each other up. Otherwise we are just a noisey cymbal or clanging gong.

This is the context of 1 Corinthians 13:11.

But we also have to ask ourselves in verse 11,

What other childish things are we putting away according to the context?

Is Paul just speaking in tongues and prophecies alone?

No. Paul also says,

3 "And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not love, it profits me nothing.
4 Love suffers long, and is kind; love envies not; love vaunts not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Does not behave itself rudely, seeks not her own, is not easily provoked, keeps no record of evil;
6 Rejoices not in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth;"
(1 Corinthians 13:3-6).​

See, Paul says here that if we give all our good to feed the poor and even sacrifice our body to be burned, it is unprofitable if we have not love.

We see something similar of this in Revelation.

"To the angel of the church in Ephesus write:

"These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands: I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false. You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary."
(Revelation 2:1-3 NIV).​

Sounds like they are in pretty good shape with the Lord, right?

However, the Word continues and says this about them,

"Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken your first love. Remember the height from which you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate." (Revelation 2:4-6 RSV).​

In other words, if we do not have love, it profits us nothing.
Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments.
Somehow there is something that this church is not repenting of.
It is so serious that God is threatening to remove their lampstand if they do not repent of such a thing.
They have forsaken their first love.
They have no love.
This is what Paul is talking about in 1 Corinthians 13.

If I give all my goods to the poor and have not love, it profits me nothing.
We have to have a true and correct love and zeal for God according to His Word.
We have to make sure our hearts are right with the Lord before helping others.
We have to makes sure we are truly loving others in accordance to His Word.

Is this enough to effect our salvation?

Removing a church's lampstand is removing their light.
This is not good.
A church cannot stand and shine light unto others if their light is out.
If one's light is out, they are not saved.
The light is Jesus Christ.
This light shines thru His body.
A person cannot be saved without Jesus.
For he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12).
And he that does not love does not know God (1 John 4:8).

So what are the other childish things a believer must put away and be loving?

We are not to be puffed up according to 1 Corinthians 13:4.

Is being puffed up a salvation issue?

Well, Scripture says, God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. (James 4:6).
And we know in the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee that the man who cried out to God over his sin was considered humble and he was more justified than the Pharisee who thought he was better than the Tax Collector (Luke 18:9-14).

So I would say that the putting away of childish things (like being "puffed up" and "not having love") are salvation issues. So yes, while 1 Corinthians 13:11 relates to the speaking of tongues in prophesying in 1 Corinthians 14, it also talking about other childish things that we need to put away that do relate to our salvation.


...

Excellent, you are wide awake and caught my intentional goof up about giving (really!).

However, you say that the childish thing is speaking without edifying.

Several other commentaries see this as an error:


Quote
Paul explains himself further in 13:11-12:“When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.” Paul explains that our understanding of God is indirect in this life. He uses two analogies: childhood and a mirror.21 In using the analogy of childhood, Paul is not suggesting that those who speak in tongues are childish and immature. Rather, he is adopting an eternal perspective and simply saying that there will come a time when the gifts of the Spirit will no longer be necessary.22


https://bible.org/seriespage/28-love-knows-no-limits-1-corinthians-131-13

They all agree that the childishness is the book knowledge we have about God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Excellent, you are wide awake and caught my intentional goof up about giving (really!).

However, you say that the childish thing is speaking without edifying.

Several other commentaries see this as an error:


Quote
Paul explains himself further in 13:11-12:“When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.” Paul explains that our understanding of God is indirect in this life. He uses two analogies: childhood and a mirror.21 In using the analogy of childhood, Paul is not suggesting that those who speak in tongues are childish and immature. Rather, he is adopting an eternal perspective and simply saying that there will come a time when the gifts of the Spirit will no longer be necessary.22


https://bible.org/seriespage/28-love-knows-no-limits-1-corinthians-131-13

They all agree that the childishness is the book knowledge we have about God.

Are you saying that having knowledge of the things of God is childish?

If that is what you are saying, then that would not be true.

The childish things are mentioned in verses 1-8. Knowledge without love is not knowledge that is learned by the Spirit. Paul essentially says if one has all knowledge and has not love it does not mean anything (for he is nothing). But see, if one does have proper knowledge, they will know how to love according to God's Word.

Being puffed up is a childish thing.
Giving all your goods to the poor without love is a childish thing.

Having the knowledge of God from his Word is not childish.

Common sense should tell you so.
But if you need verses, I can provide them for you.


...

 

[Wordkeeper]

Reading about the North Pole is inadequate, compared to actually traveling there and seeing it.

Reading about Nelson Mandela is childish, compared to actually having met him.

Quote
The analogy of the mirror implies that our visibility of Christ is indirect. In other words, Paul is comparing the nature of looking in a mirror to the relationship we will enjoy with Jesus when we see Him “face to face.”23 I enjoy looking at pictures of people, but if I had my choice I would prefer to spend time with the people that I am looking at in photo albums.

https://bible.org/seriespage/28-love-knows-no-limits-1-corinthians-131-13





Quote
The ideal view interprets teleion in 1 Corinthians 13:10 as something ideal, unblemished, or flawless. In other words, the ideal view attaches a qualitative meaning to teleion . Thomas notes that the most common English dictionary definitions of the word perfect also render the word qualitatively. Therefore, such definitions of the word, when applied to 1 Corinthians 13:10, would include the following: “a. being entirely without fault or defect; b. corresponding to an ideal standard or abstract concept; c. the soundness and the excellence of every part, element, or quality of a thing frequently as an unattainable or theoretical state.” 12 Adherents of this interpretation argue that the perf ect refers to some ideal condition following the Parousia, when “partial knowledge conveyed by the word of knowledge will be replaced by perfect knowledge; partial insight into God’s wisdom through prophecy will be replaced by a face to face audience with Christ.” 13 Such a removal of present limitations will take place after the church has been taken away to be with the Lord. The list of advocates of this view includes Godet, Robertson and Plummer, Parry, and Bruce. 14

http://www.spiritandtruth.org/teaching/documents/articles/105/105.pdf

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Reading about the North Pole is inadequate, compared to actually traveling there and seeing it.

Reading about Nelson Mandela is childish, compared to actually having met him.

Quote
The analogy of the mirror implies that our visibility of Christ is indirect. In other words, Paul is comparing the nature of looking in a mirror to the relationship we will enjoy with Jesus when we see Him “face to face.”23 I enjoy looking at pictures of people, but if I had my choice I would prefer to spend time with the people that I am looking at in photo albums.

https://bible.org/seriespage/28-love-knows-no-limits-1-corinthians-131-13





Quote
The ideal view interprets teleion in 1 Corinthians 13:10 as something ideal, unblemished, or flawless. In other words, the ideal view attaches a qualitative meaning to teleion . Thomas notes that the most common English dictionary definitions of the word perfect also render the word qualitatively. Therefore, such definitions of the word, when applied to 1 Corinthians 13:10, would include the following: “a. being entirely without fault or defect; b. corresponding to an ideal standard or abstract concept; c. the soundness and the excellence of every part, element, or quality of a thing frequently as an unattainable or theoretical state.” 12 Adherents of this interpretation argue that the perf ect refers to some ideal condition following the Parousia, when “partial knowledge conveyed by the word of knowledge will be replaced by perfect knowledge; partial insight into God’s wisdom through prophecy will be replaced by a face to face audience with Christ.” 13 Such a removal of present limitations will take place after the church has been taken away to be with the Lord. The list of advocates of this view includes Godet, Robertson and Plummer, Parry, and Bruce. 14

http://www.spiritandtruth.org/teaching/documents/articles/105/105.pdf

You are just repeating yourself and not offering anything new. The point of 1 Corinthians 13 is about love. It is not saying that knowledge or faith or prophesying is childish (if that is what you are suggesting).

For without faith, it is impossible to please Him.
And without knowledge of Christ, what other hope is there?

Paul's point is not that knowledge is childish.

"Knowing in part" is mentioned by Paul because knowledge without love is futile or meaningless.

He is saying knowledge in and of itself is not the answer to this life because we know in part.

The answer to this life is love.
But it would not be in neglect of faith or in having the knowledge of God's Word.

The putting away of childish things is not the limited knowledge we have here.

The putting away of childish things is being puffed up or giving all your money to the poor without love or prophesying without an interpreter (which is self centered).

The point Paul is making in 1 Corinthians 13 is love.
If you don't have it, you don't know God.


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Scripture also says we are to flee youthful lusts (2 Timothy 2:22).

This fits 1 Corinthians 13:11.

...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It is also written,

1 My son, if you will receive my words, and lay up my commandments with you;

2 So that you incline your ear unto wisdom, and apply your heart to understanding;

3 Yea, if you cry after knowledge, and lift up your voice for understanding;

4 If you seek her as silver, and search for her as for hid treasures;

5 Then shall you understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.

6 For the LORD gives wisdom: out of his mouth comes knowledge and understanding.

7 He lays up sound wisdom for the righteous: he is a shield to them that walk uprightly.

(Proverbs 2:2-7).


...

 

[Wordkeeper]

Where did you get the idea that a discussion requires providing multiple, fresh, answers? You are basically very bright (you caught out the giving goof up!), soI'll try to explain how good qualified scholars conduct a discussion. X offers a sensible answer. He provides citations where other good, highly qualified scholars support his answer.

Now Y must SHOW how X's answer is NOT sensible or provide citations from well respected, qualified scholars also showing that the answer is wrong.

So please show why the answer is wrong.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Where did you get the idea that a discussion requires providing multiple, fresh, answers? You are basically very bright (you caught out the giving goof up!), soI'll try to explain how good qualified scholars conduct a discussion. X offers a sensible answer. He provides citations where other good, highly qualified scholars support his answer.

Now Y must SHOW how X's answer is NOT sensible or provide citations from well respected, qualified scholars also showing that the answer is wrong.

So please show why the answer is wrong.

First, there is nothing wrong with repeating oneself, as long as one adds new information with it (Which would be like a recap for the new info). However, when somebody repeats the exact same thing the very next post (with no new information), it says several things to me.

#1. I am stupid because I am not smart enough to read and understand what you said the first time.

#2. You are not really interested in having a discussion. You are just interested in pushing your opinion only (like a salesman). For I asked you questions, such as, "Is this what you are suggesting" (In attempt to confirm your beliefs on the matter). And yet, you acted like you never seen what I had said and you did not care what I thought you believed. I want to know what you believe. Yet you keep repeating the same parotted information (from a read script) as if that explains everything.​

Second, who are the scribes of today? Well, back in the day we know that the scribes had tran-scribed the Scriptures. This would be the scholars of our day. Scholars get into the original languages and makes new translations and or provide Bibles in new languages, etc. In a way, this is sort of like what a scribe was in the times of Jesus (all be it, slightly different). However, what was Jesus' opinion of scribes? Well, Jesus said "beware of the scribes." (Luke 20:46). Granted, I am not saying all scribes or scholars of our day are bad, but if Jesus says we are to be cautious of them, then that means we should not blindly accept what they say as if if they were some kind of great authority for our lives or anything (In regards to God's Word). Remember, the Bereans were more noble because they searched the Scriptures to see whether the spoken Word was confirmed with the Written Word (Acts 17:11). As for citations from scholars: Well, Jesus and his followers never quoted scribes or scholars, but they quoted Scripture instead (i.e. cross references) of which I have provided to back up my view.

Three, I did provide Biblical reasons why your belief is wrong. I provided the context and cross references from other parts of Scripture. I also had asked a question in 1 Corinthians 13:11. What childish things do we need to put away? This is speaking to the reader. For Paul desires that we (the reader) make sure we do certain things (verses 1-8). For one can say that one is childish for not doing what Paul says in verses 1-8. So 1 Corinthians 13:11 is not speaking from a perspective that would suggest that your interpretation is true on this passage (as far as I understand it). For if I am understanding you correctly, I am getting the impression that you believe the putting away of childish things is not something you do but it is something that just naturally happens when you die. You believe we are children in our understanding. But Paul says in 1 Corinthians 3 that he had to speak to the Corinthians as if they were babes in Christ who could only accept milk and not meat. This was in regards to their spiritual knowledge and understanding of God's Word. They were babies who could only accept milk and not adults or men whereby they could eat meat or solid food. Yet, you are wanting me to believe contrary to that. You are wanting me to believe that the treasure I have learned from God's Word by the Spirit is childishness. This is an insult to even say such a thing.


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Also, what is your opinion on the passage I quoted from Proverbs 2?
How do you ignore and or re-interpret such a passage from Scripture?
For me, this passage refutes your odd and strange belief.


...

 

[ZacharyB]

Scripture also says we are to flee youthful lusts (2 Timothy 2:22).
This fits 1 Corinthians 13:11.

NT Scripture tells us to do all kinds of stuff,
which most probably does not affect our salvation.
Butski, this does not include habitual unrepentant sinning,
which, if not remedied, guarantees loss of eternal life (ref: the NT).

 

[Wordkeeper]

First, there is nothing wrong with repeating oneself, as long as one adds new information with it (Which would be like a recap for the new info). However, when somebody repeats the exact same thing the very next post (with no new information), it says several things to me.

#1. I am stupid because I am not smart enough to read and understand what you said the first time.

#2. You are not really interested in having a discussion. You are just interested in pushing your opinion only (like a salesman). For I asked you questions, such as, "Is this what you are suggesting" (In attempt to confirm your beliefs on the matter). And yet, you acted like you never seen what I had said and you did not care what I thought you believed. I want to know what you believe. Yet you keep repeating the same parotted information (from a read script) as if that explains everything.

Second, who are the scribes of today? Well, back in the day we know that the scribes had tran-scribed the Scriptures. This would be the scholars of our day. Scholars get into the original languages and makes new translations and or provide Bibles in new languages, etc. In a way, this is sort of like what a scribe was in the times of Jesus (all be it, slightly different). However, what was Jesus' opinion of scribes? Well, Jesus said "beware of the scribes." (Luke 20:46). Granted, I am not saying all scribes or scholars of our day are bad, but if Jesus says we are to be cautious of them, then that means we should not blindly accept what they say as if if they were some kind of great authority for our lives or anything (In regards to God's Word). Remember, the Bereans were more noble because they searched the Scriptures to see whether the spoken Word was confirmed with the Written Word (Acts 17:11). As for citations from scholars: Well, Jesus and his followers never quoted scribes or scholars, but they quoted Scripture instead (i.e. cross references) of which I have provided to back up my view.

Three, I did provide Biblical reasons why your belief is wrong. I provided the context and cross references from other parts of Scripture. I also had asked a question in 1 Corinthians 13:11. What childish things do we need to put away? This is speaking to the reader. For Paul desires that we (the reader) make sure we do certain things (verses 1-8). For one can say that one is childish for not doing what Paul says in verses 1-8. So 1 Corinthians 13:11 is not speaking from a perspective that would suggest that your interpretation is true on this passage (as far as I understand it). For if I am understanding you correctly, I am getting the impression that you believe the putting away of childish things is not something you do but it is something that just naturally happens when you die. You believe we are children in our understanding. But Paul says in 1 Corinthians 3 that he had to speak to the Corinthians as if they were babes in Christ who could only accept milk and not meat. This was in regards to their spiritual knowledge and understanding of God's Word. They were babies who could only accept milk and not adults or men whereby they could eat meat or solid food. Yet, you are wanting me to believe contrary to that. You are wanting me to believe that the treasure I have learned from God's Word by the Spirit is childishness. This is an insult to even say such a thing.


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These are simple "yes" or "no" answers required to the questions.

Is the following sentence telling you that our present knowledge of Christ is childish, immature, weak, like looking in the old fashioned metal mirrors Corinth was famous for, but IN THE FUTURE, our knowledge will be mature, full, complete, because we won't be seeing an image, but the actual person? Yes or no?


12For now we see in a mirror indirectly, but then we will see face to face.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

These are simple "yes" or "no" answers required to the questions.

Is the following sentence telling you that our present knowledge of Christ is childish, immature, weak, like looking in the old fashioned metal mirrors Corinth was famous for, but IN THE FUTURE, our knowledge will be mature, full, complete, because we won't be seeing an image, but the actual person? Yes or no?

12For now we see in a mirror indirectly, but then we will see face to face.

I am not denying that we know in part or that we see thru a mirror darkly. But nowhere does knowing in part equate with putting away childish things. You are misunderstanding 1 Corinthians 13:11 (Among other things in the Bible, like not being under all Law, etc). Also, you do not appear to want to truly communicate with me in a way that is clear and normal (for you repeatedly mention things that I have no idea of what you are talking about). The only thing that is clear is that you are interested in re-hashing your opinion over and over (without any new information to convince me otherwise). So I think it would be better that we do not converse between one another.

May God bless you.
And please be well.


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[Wordkeeper]

I am not denying that we know in part or that we see thru a mirror darkly. But nowhere does knowing in part equate with putting away childish things. You are misunderstanding 1 Corinthians 13:11 (Among other things in the Bible, like not being under the Law, etc). Also, you do not appear to want to truly communicate with me in a way that is clear and normal (for you repeatedly mention things that I have no idea of what you are talking about); but you are just interested in re-hashing your opinion. So I think it would be better that we do not converse between one another.

May God bless you.
And please be well.


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Thanks for saying that knowing in part is incomplete, immature, childlike. Your Yes is acknowledged. I'll just ignore the rest of your post. See, it wasn't so difficult to say Yes, was it?

Do you agree that this verse says that when we see Christ face to face, we will know him as well as he already knows us, completely, in a mature, meaningful way, as opposed to the shallow way things appear to a child ? In other words, when we see him face to face, our childish, shallow ideas will be put away, to be replaced by real, true knowledge. Yes or no?


13:12Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, just as I have been fully known.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

NT Scripture tells us to do all kinds of stuff,
which most probably does not affect our salvation.

Baptism is one such Command that is clearly described in the New Testament as not being a salvation issue (1 Peter 3:21). I am sure there are other Commands that are not salvation issues, they are just not as clearly defined like the Command for us to be baptized, though.

Butski,

What does this word mean?
Is it an insult?
Am I a "butt ski"?



Is it a mispelling of the words, "but see"?
If this is an intentional mispelling, could not someone think the wrong thing on such a word?
In other words, I would encourage you to stick to words that people can at least look up and understand what they mean. Creating your own language and or using slang that is not commonly known by most people just leaves room for confusion by others (Which is not good). Paul says he would rather speak five words with the understanding than ten thousand words without any understanding (1 Corinthians 14:19).

this does not include habitual unrepentant sinning,
which, if not remedied, guarantees loss of eternal life (ref: the NT).

If a person is never sorrowful or does not repent of the sin of not being baptized they will still be saved. Baptism is not a salvation issue. However, if they refuse to repent of the sin of murder, lying, adultery, etc. then that is a different matter.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Thanks for saying that knowing in part is incomplete, immature, childlike.

I said no such thing.
Anyways, unless you improve your English or basic learning skills of how to communicate normally with others, this conversation is ended, my friend.


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[Wordkeeper]

I said no such thing.
Anyways, unless you improve your English or basic learning skills of how to communicate normally with others, this conversation is ended, my friend.


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But you agreed that you only know in part, you changed your view about being like Einstein, knowing like a genius...