Calvinism, explained.

[Thursday]

You seem to want a notarized letter to
that effect from God.

If you are saved you will have the illumination
of the Holy Spirit. God won't allow you to be
deceived on any essential point of faith or
doctrine ...at least in the long term.

So, the ~real~ question is not whether a
Christian is being deceived, but whether the
person is a real Christian !

There are a lot of people deceived about
their very salvation (Matthew 7:22-23).
There will be no objective, verifiable way for
them to know whether or not they're saved
until they stand before the Lord.

That's just the way it is. If you are of Christ,
the Holy Spirit shall illuminate you. You'll
be protected from fundamental error in the
long term.

If you aren't of Christ, you won't be. You'll
be deceived and there's no way you'll know
that you're being deceived.

If you want, you can go to some Pope or
Priest or Patriarch, and ask them. But,
let me assure you, when
you stand before God you'll stand alone.

So if you are not one of the elect, you are wasting your time here on these boards. You can't save your own soul or anyone elses.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I do not have to know the state of your faith, and the only person who does, already does, and has known since before He made anything.

That's the point. Christ knows His own and has always known, before your birth, before the Fall, before Creation itself.

Faith is a gift from God that comes from having a heart that has been made flesh. Prior to salvation, Calvinist thinking holds that the spiritually dead is a literal, if unseen form of death, where we are all separated from God. Of their own power, the dad may only stay dead. We believe that God makes the first step by breathing life into the dead, and then we may have faith.

But even after that step of God breathing life into the dead

Calvinists use words like 'genuine faith' '

Elect, genuine, sincere: those terms are used descriptively, not predictively.

Calvinists do not for one second believe that somehow, someone who earnestly desires a relationship with Jesus Christ will be turned away, it's just that Calvinists believe that it was the Holy Spirit of God is then source of that desire.

And yes, we do believe that salvation is a monergistic function that was completed for the "elect" on the Cross. Because we believe that before salvation, we are spiritually dead, incapable of reacting or responding to spiritual stimuli.

We doubt them only in that while God is omniscient, we are not. We have to rely on the outward evidence of conversion over time to know, on any level, whether someone was saved or not.

But again.

If GOD does ALL the electing, only GOD.

Why would a Calvinist doubt it? Then you are doubting God's ability to draw people.

Why would it say "IF you are one of the elect". "If you sincerely repent." "If you truly believe.'

If God draws someone and we have no choice but to go, than we MUST.

So why would that (above) not say "You must be one of the elect". "You must have sincerely repented" "You must truly believe" because God has made that so which must happen.

BUt then Calvinists use "IF ..." which is totally the opposite of what they say that they have no choice when drawn by God. Yet they ask others 'if'. SO others would also have no choice and MUST

We MUST go when drawn by God.

So if one is elect, and they have no self will, how can they not truly repent, they MUST truly repent. How can they not truly believe, they MUST truly believe.

The person has no choice. That's what Calvinism says that talks both sides. It is double-talk

 

[EmSw]

Your christ loves every individual person in the world
and sincerely desires their salvation.

My Christ earnestly loves and desires the salvation of only
those whom God has unconditionally chosen to salvation. (Ps. 5:5, Ps. 7:11,
Ps. 11:5, Matt. 11:27, John 17:9-10, Acts 2:47, Acts 13:48, Rom. 9:10-13,
Rom. 9:21-24, Eph. 1:3-4)

Does Christ loving everyone offend you?

 

[EmSw]

Being among the Elect is the result of having
been elected. THAT was done before the
creation of the world ( Ephesians 1:4 ).

Nowhere in the Bible does it say a "personal
relationship" elects us !

The whole concept of Election ...so frequently
mentioned in Scripture... has no meaning if
we elect ourselves.

Since you don't know if you are the elect or not, haven't you chosen yourself to be the elect?

You are playing the lottery and have chosen your own winning number.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Since you don't know if you are the elect or not, haven't you chosen yourself to be the elect?

You are playing the lottery and have chosen your own winning number.

But Calvinism says that he cannot choose for Himself.

That he needs to wait for it to happen. So, in Calvinism he cannot choose his winning number.

Only God chooses the winners.

 

[EmSw]

Elect, genuine, sincere: those terms are used descriptively, not predictively.

Calvinists do not for one second believe that somehow, someone who earnestly desires a relationship with Jesus Christ will be turned away, it's just that Calvinists believe that it was the Holy Spirit of God is then source of that desire.

And yes, we do believe that salvation is a monergistic function that was completed for the "elect" on the Cross. Because we believe that before salvation, we are spiritually dead, incapable of reacting or responding to spiritual stimuli.

We doubt them only in that while God is omniscient, we are not. We have to rely on the outward evidence of conversion over time to know, on any level, whether someone was saved or not.

If salvation was completed on the cross for the elect, how is it you were ever spiritually dead? Did you lose your salvation after birth? Did you have to be saved again during your lifetime? When were you actually saved, during the completed function of salvation at the cross, or afterward, during your lifetime?

 

[EmSw]

But Calvinism says that he cannot choose for Himself.

That he needs to wait for it to happen. So, in Calvinism he cannot choose his winning number.

Only God chooses the winners.

Since no Calvinist knows for sure if he is the elect (for this would part of their 'secret will' of God), then he must choose for himself to be a self-nominated elect, no matter what their belief states.

The only way for a Calvinist to know for sure if he is the elect or not, is to wait until death, and then it will be revealed.

Since God predestines some for heaven and foreordains the others for hell, and no man knows which group to which he belongs, then man has to guess
to which group he belongs. Since, according to their beliefs, no man can do anything towards salvation, they must live in this uncertain state until death.

Oh, they can relieve their weary souls by making themselves a part of the election, but it is all pure speculation. Since they don't want to go to hell, they
must find a way to make themselves a part of the election, and this is done of their own doing in their own minds. They can only hope God chose their
number in the great Calvinist lottery.

 

[tulipbee]

So if you are not one of the elect, you are wasting your time here on these boards. You can't save your own soul or anyone elses.

Right, I don't save myself with your Christ that can not regenerate and save
a sinner who does not first choose Christ with his own "free will." All men
have a "free will" by which they can either accept or reject Christ. That "free will"
may not be violated by Christ.

My Christ sovereignly regenerates the elect sinner apart
from his choice, for without regeneration the spiritually dead sinner can
not choose Christ. Faith is not man's contribution to salvation but the gift
of Christ which He sovereignly imparts in regeneration. (John 3:3, John 6:44
& 65, John 15:16, Acts 11:18, Rom. 9:16, Eph. 2:1, Eph. 2:8-10, Phil. 1:29,
Hebr. 12:2)

 

[Thursday]

My Christ sovereignly regenerates the elect sinner apart
from his choice

Why do you call him your Christ? You don't even know if you are one of the elect, right?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Why do you call him your Christ? You don't even know if you are one of the elect, right?

True dat.

He might never be chosen, according to his own beliefs.

 

[tulipbee]

Does Christ loving everyone offend you?

You have been working overtime to portray a
one-dimensional, cardboard God-of-Love-
only. My proof text being 1 John 4:8 & 16...

"God is love" ( NASB, NIV, KJV )

Unfortunately for your position, this ISN'T the Bible's
sole description of the Lord.

Not only isn't love God's only attribute,
nowhere in Scripture does it even say
love is His main attribute.

He is righteous ( Psalm 11:7 NASB, NIV ).

He is "a jealous God" ( Exodus 20:5 NASB,
NIV; indeed, His "name is Jealous" Exodus
34:14 NASB ).

He is holy ( 1 Samuel 2:2 NASB, NIV ).

He is merciful ( Psalm 145:8 NASB;
"compassionate" NIV ).

He is good ( Psalm 135:3 NASB, NIV ).

He is wrathful ( Deuteronomy 9:19,
Numbers 16:46, 1 Chronicles 13:11 NIV ).

He is avenging ( Nahum 1:2 NASB, NIV ).

ALL these things are attributes of the
Supreme Being. Scripture makes no
distinction between these as to importance
or priority.

 

[tulipbee]

If salvation was completed on the cross for the elect, how is it you were ever spiritually dead? Did you lose your salvation after birth? Did you have to be saved again during your lifetime? When were you actually saved, during the completed function of salvation at the cross, or afterward, during your lifetime?

Justification happens instantly. Sanctification
happens over time.

 

[tulipbee]

But Calvinism says that he cannot choose for Himself.

That he needs to wait for it to happen. So, in Calvinism he cannot choose his winning number.

Only God chooses the winners.

You think the Elect are those that chose God! the Scriptures don't teach that,
but the opposite. He chose us (Eph. 1:4; 11 Thess. 2:13; John 15:16)

 

[tulipbee]

Why do you call him your Christ? You don't even know if you are one of the elect, right?

I do make my decisions from my soul. But
can my will act independently from my human heart?
My will always acts in accordance with my heart or nature,
this is taught in Scripture (Luke 6:45; Jer. 13:23; Mark 7:21).
Notice Mark 7:21 and Jeremiah 17:9:

 

[tulipbee]

True dat.

He might never be chosen, according to his own beliefs.

You're not Biblical by any means. You try to put the Salvation of man, in the hands of man. All men allready disbelieve. But those chosen by God will believe the Truth, by the will of God.

 

[EmSw]

Justification happens instantly. Sanctification
happens over time.

Let's see, we were talking of the completed work of salvation. Why do you change the subject to justification and sanctification?

 

[EmSw]

You think the Elect are those that chose God! the Scriptures don't teach that,
but the opposite. He chose us (Eph. 1:4; 11 Thess. 2:13; John 15:16)

However, you have no idea if He chose you or not. You keep avoiding this!

 

[supersoldier71]

If salvation was completed on the cross for the elect, how is it you were ever spiritually dead? Did you lose your salvation after birth? Did you have to be saved again during your lifetime? When were you actually saved, during the completed function of salvation at the cross, or afterward, during your lifetime?

"And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified." Romans 8:28-30

God knew whom He would choose from before creation; the debt for sin was paid in full on the Cross; it is actualized when the person is saved at some point during their lifespan.

God bless.

 

[supersoldier71]

However, you have no idea if He chose you or not. You keep avoiding this!

If you know who Jesus Christ is (1 John 5:1), and Jesus Christ knows you (Matthew 22:11-14), you're elect.

Done.

God bless!

 

[Thursday]

If you know who Jesus Christ is (1 John 5:1), and Jesus Christ knows you (Matthew 22:11-14), you're elect.

Done.

God bless!

The unrighteous in Matt 25 know Jesus and he knows them. However, they didn't serve him.