Calvinism and Unbelievers

[AguayOscar]

Would you expose an unbeliever or a recently converted Christian (babe in Christ) to calvinism?

 

[lesliedellow]

Well I was exposed to it. I spent a good many years (decades) telling myself that the Bible didn't mean what it said, of course, but I am still here.

 

[twin1954]

Would you expose an unbeliever or a recently converted Christian (babe in Christ) to calvinism?

Calvinism isn't just some higher learning or better understanding it is the truth of God. Why would I, or anyone else, withhold truth from people? I am convinced that it impossible to believe on Christ unless you know who He is. You don't have to know about the five points but you must know the absolute sovereignty of God in all things, especially salvation. The Scriptures are clear that there is no salvation in a false god and any idea of God that isn't what He has revealed of Himself in the Scriptures is a false god. The preaching of the Gospel is the preaching of God who is Lord and Savior.

 

[BryanW92]

Would you expose an unbeliever or a recently converted Christian (babe in Christ) to calvinism?

That depends on what you mean. I wouldn't break out the Westminster Confession of Faith and start preaching from it. But I would teach the bible with a strong understanding of what we believe that it means. Remember that the unbeliever or new believer is a babe who needs milk, not the strong red meat of the nuts and bolts of Calvinism, but I wouldn't let them wander in the wasteland of Arminianism either. Likewise, I wouldn't expose a babe to the works of Paul until they had a good knowledge of the Gospels.

 

[JM]

I understand the wisdom in holding back on the Confessions but would consider the age and background of the new believer as well. Break out some sermons or commentary on Romans, something that works through the entire book from beginning to end. That should ground them.


Yours in the Lord,
jm

 

[twin1954]

I understand the wisdom in holding back on the Confessions but would consider the age and background of the new believer as well. Break out some sermons or commentary on Romans, something that works through the entire book from beginning to end. That should ground them.


Yours in the Lord,
jm

Simply preach the Gospel of the sovereign grace of God to them and that should suffice. We do not have to soften the truth to make it palatable to folks we simply need to tell of Christ as He is and leave the rest to God. All true believers do not balk at the truth of God. They may not understand the depths of it but they know truth when they hear it.

 

[JM]

Is that a joke?

 

[JM]

No, I would not. To me Calvinism is a heretic position just as gnosticism was for the early church. God did not create us as divine automatons, robotsView attachment 158974 , or some sort of programmed being. He bestowed us with free will to chose Him or reject Him. Calvinism basically teaches that we are all MUPPETS.

Ahh, I get it. You have a comprehension issue. This is the "Ask a Calvinist Forum."

 

[GodBlessed777]

Is that a joke?

God created sentient beings with FREE WiLL. Calvinism strips off man his ability to chose therefore elevating sin as God's choice for man. This is ridiculous and preposterous. Watch this video about the importance of FREE WILL.

 

[South Bound]

Would you expose an unbeliever or a recently converted Christian (babe in Christ) to calvinism?

Absolutely. The discipleship starts immediately.

 

[South Bound]

No, I would not. To me Calvinism is a heretic position just as gnosticism was for the early church. God did not create us as divine automatons, robotsView attachment 158974 , or some sort of programmed being. He bestowed us with free will to chose Him or reject Him. Calvinism basically teaches that we are all MUPPETS.

How nice of you to post a picture of a puppet so your straw man wouldn't be lonely.

 

[South Bound]

That depends on what you mean. I wouldn't break out the Westminster Confession of Faith and start preaching from it.

Why not? Discipling new believers is precisely what it's for.

Remember that the unbeliever or new believer is a babe who needs milk, not the strong red meat of the nuts and bolts of Calvinism

Then use the Shorter Catechism, which was written specificall for children.

Likewise, I wouldn't expose a babe to the works of Paul until they had a good knowledge of the Gospels.

Actually, I would do just the opposite. I would start with Romans and 1 John

 

[twin1954]

God created sentient beings with FREE WiLL. Calvinism strips off man his ability to chose therefore elevating sin as God's choice for man. This is ridiculous and preposterous. Watch this video about the importance of FREE WILL.

If you wish to debate Calvinism then go to the debate room. This is reserved for those who have legitimate questions that they want answered by a Calvinist.

 

[GodBlessed777]

If you wish to debate Calvinism then go to the debate room. This is reserved for those who have legitimate questions that they want answered by a Calvinist.

Watch the video.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Would you expose an unbeliever or a recently converted Christian (babe in Christ) to calvinism?

The problem with the question is that is seems to buy into the asumption that 1.) Calvinism is not biblical 2.) that the implications of it are potentially dangerous.

Rest easy my friend, Calvinism is biblical, or biblicism, and the implications of non-Calvinist theology contains many more potential dangers. I recognize that there are true and not true converts in both Calvinist and non-Calvinist camps, so we can lay hypotheticals down and recognize our theological presuppositions from which we interpret Scripture and not impose our presuppositions on others interpretations.

There was a time, when I believed OSAS was nothing more than a license to sin. I have since (many years ago) realized that could not be further from the truth. But that is how I perceived it at the time, from the theological presupposition that a believer can possibly "fall away" from the faith, or deconvert oneself (via "free will" and propensity to sin). I have since learned that the great biblical and blessed doctrines of predestination, election, providence, regeneration, effectual grace, perseverance of the saints, and so on, provide a wealth of peace and comfort in the darkest of hours. Remember the children's song, Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so? As simple as it may be, it is true, and powerful. Behind such simple truth is the fact that Christ does not potentially love me if I choose to love Him and strive my hardest to live a perfect life as though I could add anything to the great salvation He provided at Calvary for wretched miserable hopeless sinners such as me. The work of redemption was finished at the cross, and His love either applied to me lavished on me (elect) there or it did not (non-elect). This grace from God cannot according to Scripture be a blanket non-personal potential, it must be actual and made effectual by the Holy Trinity, because it is a substitutional atonement, Christ died for a particular people, His people, the "lost sheep of Israel". Yes, Jesus loves me, this I know, for (by way of application) the Bible tells me so.

I think if this question were asked of C.H. Spurgeon, he would reply something like this: since Calvinism is another word for Christian (Spurgeon said as much), to not expose a unbeliever to Calvinism, is to not expose the unbeliever to (Biblical) Christianity (proper)! Yes, there may be some polemics going on here, but do consider and look into these things.

 

[BryanW92]

Why not? Discipling new believers is precisely what it's for.



Then use the Shorter Catechism, which was written specificall for children.



Actually, I would do just the opposite. I would start with Romans and 1 John

So, you would say, "This is the bible. It is inerrant and contains all truth. It is all you need. Now put it away and I'll read to you from this other book that tells you what we think the bible says."

There's a reason why Elders have to know the confessions and catechism. It is so they can teach the bible with authority without breaking out the WCF. In the beginning of a new believer's walk, he may ask a question that is in the catechism. You would give him the answer from the catechism and return to the bible.

 

[hedrick]

So, you would say, "This is the bible. It is inerrant and contains all truth. It is all you need. Now put it away and I'll read to you from this other book that tells you what we think the bible says."

There's a reason why Elders have to know the confessions and catechism. It is so they can teach the bible with authority without breaking out the WCF. In the beginning of a new believer's walk, he may ask a question that is in the catechism. You would give him the answer from the catechism and return to the bible.

It is sometimes useful to have summaries. That's one reason for the existence of catechisms. Obviously new believers should study the Bible systematically, but a careful review of the whole Bible is going to take a while. As I understand it, Calvin wrote the Institutes as an introduction. A way to orient people towards the major concepts, before diving into the Bible with the aid of his commentaries.

It seems clear that before starting to read the Bible (or after reading it if you prefer the inductive approach) election is one concept that you'd want to talk about. It's key to what is going on in the OT, and to a slightly lesser degree the NT. It might not be the first thing you'd talk about with someone who has no background at all, though.

 

[twin1954]

You cannot preach the Gospel without preaching the majesty and sovereignty of God, the sinfulness of sin, accomplished redemption for a particular people and so on. Rom. 10: 13-15 is very clear that you cannot believe in someone you know nothing about and cannot trust to an accomplished redemption that you haven't heard of. Calling on the name of the Lord isn't just saying His name it is calling on who He is. His name is His person, His character, His being and His abilities. Calling on the name of the Lord is much more than believing He is God it is knowing who God is that you believe. Calling on a false god, no matter what name you give it, is damning to your soul.

There are at least two things that you must know to be saved: you must know who God is and you must know who you are.

 

[Skala]

God created sentient beings with FREE WiLL. Calvinism strips off man his ability to chose therefore elevating sin as God's choice for man. This is ridiculous and preposterous. Watch this video about the importance of FREE WILL.

This statement proves you don't know what Calvinism is.

Since you don't know what it is, how can you dismiss it or call it heresy?

You said and I quote "Calvinism strips man of his ability to choose".

This is absolutely a lie.

No where does Calvinism teach that man has no will, no ability to choose.

Instead, what it teaches is that due to his sin nature, man is not willing to choose God, and thus, freely and willingly chooses to reject God! (a choice!)

That is why regeneration is mandatory if anyone is going to be saved.

 

[hedrick]

Your quotation from Calvin doesn't say that we have no will. As previously stated, Calvin believed that we had a will, but that it was not able to choose anything that would lead to salvation until God renewed it. He believed that God decided in advance whose wills he was going to renew. The dreadful decree is his decision not to renew a set of people.