Discussion Cakes,lawsuits,and a Holy Spirit filled life.

[Alithis]

sodomite weddings ,Cakes,lawsuits,and unrighteousness.

what happened to the owners of a cake shop is "UNFAIR" yes .. BUT...

ouh there is so often a "but" ..

This couple got it wrong !
perhaps i would have also in their shoes ,i cannot know for sure .

We are to be ministers of the gospel as empowered by the Holy Spirit to be witnesses of the truth of the Grace of God displayed to all mankind in Christ Jesus.

we are not called to stand as judges over the world(whom we once were of but for that same grace of God)

when we stand in judgment of sinners having been sinners ourselves we do err greatly.
there is a judgment coming upon the inhabitants of the earth and HIS judgement is righteous holy and perfect . ours can never be so .for we are judging those whom we ourselves once were before we were set free by the Love of God . we were not made innocent of sin by anything we did or could ever do. so upon what grounds do we judge another of this world ? - no grounds at all.
(i speak not of judgments in the church .. but of judgments of the worldly people around us).

 

[Alithis]

IMO- the correct response from this shop would have been to treat them as any other lost individuals in this world . in need of salvation and used their opportunity of interaction to share the love of God with them in as much capacity as they were able to . testifying of his love grace and forgiveness of any that turn to him and in display of that love made them the best cake they possibly could .

it would not mean they were condoning the wedding .. only that they were showing mercy because the judgment that comes upon the world is final and its consequence is eternal.
often people wonder why God lets wicked men live a day longer .. it is imo - because he knows their end should they not repent and a few more days upon this earth is a kindness in comparison to the horror that awaits their eternity.
we cannot wish that eternity upon any man . to do so is to fully miss the love of God that is to flow through us.
our concern must always be NOT to judge the sinner .. but to gaze upon them with the greatest compassion longing and yearning for them to Know the lord JEsus and be saved .

when we stand in judgment of them we will bring on our own head grief that is purely our own doing .

 

[Alithis]

we were such as these.. -DEAD in our own filth and sin.. when Christ laid down his life for us on the cross ..
in essence .. he made the cake for us knowing we deserved none of it .

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I understand your point, however, it's not judgement to say "no". The bakery had made many cakes for the gay couple but said no to the wedding cake. It was not unloving to say no. To do so was against their personal morals and to say yes to something they strongly believe is against what God would have them do, and is wrong too because whatever is done without faith is sin. (Romans 14:23)

 

[brinny]

I understand your point, however, it's not judgement to say "no". The bakery had made many cakes for the gay couple but said no to the wedding cake. It was not unloving to say no. To do so was against their personal morals and to say yes to something they strongly believe is against what God would have them do is wrong too because whatever is done without faith is sin. (Romans 14:23)

i agree, amen.

 

[Biblicist]

This couple got it wrong !

Unless individuals are prepared to make a non-violent stand against the evils of both society and government then their society will quickly destroy itself. You could also make the argument that the Christians in England of the early 1800's who stood against slavery where doing the wrong thing as well.

If you were to keep an eye on developments within the US with the many Christians who are making a stand for Righteousness, be it against the onslaught of sodomy and gay 'marriage', then you will quickly see that these superb and often very brave individuals have made quite a difference - but has it been enough?

 

[Alithis]

please note the full thread title ..

-AND A HOLY SPIRIT FILLED LIFE.

the truth is (though it sounds so harsh to say it ) they are being judged with the same measure they used to judge .
but thats not the main point im trying to make. the point is .. we are to love the lost as christ loved us .. unconditionally .
we are to love our enemy ..
do good to them .. etc

They refused to make a cake .. it was a judgment call
Question did it draw the sinner to Christ ? no it left the sinner gloating over a legal victory
it gave them ammunition .
to love and make the cake and testify of the love of God in BOTH word and deed - would have left them with no ammunition and receiving the gospel in both word AND deed .

 

[brinny]

please not the full thread title ..

-AND A HOLY SPIRIT FILLED LIFE.

the truth is (though it sounds so harsh to say it ) they are being judged with the same measure they used to judge .
but thats not the main point im trying to make. the point is .. we are to love the lost as christ loved us .. unconditionally .
we are to love our enemy ..
do good to them .. etc

They refused to make a cake .. it was a judgment call
Question did it draw the sinner to Christ ? no it left the sinner gloating over a legal victory
it gave them ammunition .
to love and make the cake and testify of the love of God in BOTH word and deed - would have left them with no ammunition and receiving the gospel in both word AND deed .

WE are to be the salt and light of the earth and to ALWAYS do what glorifies God, not appear to be "condoning" sin for the sake of "peace", brother in Christ and beloved son of the Most High God.

This would be an excellent Bible study however, on what compromising with the woorld means.

Thank you kindly.

 

[Alithis]

Unless individuals are prepared to make a non-violent stand against the evils of both society and government then their society will quickly destroy itself. You could also make the argument that the Christians in England of the early 1800's who stood against slavery where doing the wrong thing as well.

If you were to keep an eye on developments within the US with the many Christians who are making a stand for Righteousness, be it against the onslaught of sodomy and gay 'marriage', then you will quickly see that these superb and often very brave individuals have made quite a difference - but has it been enough?

that's the thing .. fleshly judgment has made no difference for good what so ever and NEVER wil

it has caused the world to see the messengers of Christ as haters and judgmental bigots -it plays into the hands of the enemy ..
we over come the enemy not by judging him but by loving him in the face of his wickedness ...

it is the gospel that saves not our political "stand" .. -the truth is we can make all the stands we want but this world will not change ..we are in the end of days .
we are never called to change the world .. we are called to preach the good news of the coming kingdom of god .. its Gods job to change the world and he does so soon. the world will continue to work by the spirit of antichrist it will continue to darken and oppose godliness .it will son make the ultimate law against God and put us who will not conform to death..
and as they do so we will love them and we will bless them and we will do good to them .. in compassion and godly love because their time is short and the eternity which awaits them we can wish upon no man .

 

[Alithis]

WE are to be the salt and light of the earth and to ALWAYS do what glorifies God, not appear to be "condoning" sin for the sake of "peace", brother in Christ and beloved son of the Most High God.

This would be an excellent Bible study however, on what compromising with the world means.

Thank you kindly.

doing things"the worlds way" rather then by the love of GOD in the Spirit of GOd .. is in itself compromising . the lord Jesus tells us very plainly .. FORGIVE .. do good to those who harm us ..bless those who curse us ..
and always we will be judged (in this life -reaping what we sow)by the measure we use to judge .

 

[brinny]

we were such as these.. -DEAD in our own filth and sin.. when Christ laid down his life for us on the cross ..
in essence .. he made the cake for us knowing we deserved none of it .

Jesus never would have "made a cake" that represented sin. He DIED to CONQUER sin. He had to DIE because of sin. He never "embracced" it and compromised what HE came to do, and that was to "abolish" it.

THank you kindly.

 

[Alithis]

I understand your point, however, it's not judgement to say "no". The bakery had made many cakes for the gay couple but said no to the wedding cake. It was not unloving to say no. To do so was against their personal morals and to say yes to something they strongly believe is against what God would have them do, and is wrong too because whatever is done without faith is sin. (Romans 14:23)

I fully disagree - it was most definitely a judgment to say "no"

 

[Biblicist]

They refused to make a cake .. it was a judgment call

Of course it was and what's wrong with a Christian making a righteous judgement?

Remember, this couple (and thousands of others) are not simply protecting their Christian values within their business but they are making a stand for their Nation. From what I understand, as so many have taken a strong stand on this issue at least 13 States have enacted Laws to override Federal Law in this area. If the Christians had of decided to remain silent on this issue and with others as well, then the US would be further down the track of debauchery than what it is now.

Question did it draw the sinner to Christ ? no it left the sinner gloating over a legal victory it gave them ammunition .

Does it matter? These people have undoubtedly chosen a pathway that they will never return from. As this couple (and others) have made such a strong public stand it can only serve to stem the incredible tide of sodomy that is being imposed on their nation by evil powers.

 

[Alithis]

Jesus never would have "made a cake" that represented sin. He DIED to CONQUER sin. He had to DIE because of sin. He never "embracced" it and compromised what HE came to do, and that was to "abolish" it.

THank you kindly.

no ? what would he have done ? stooped down and wrote in the ground and then asked "where are your accusers ?"
the answer is, the accusers, in this case ..owned a cake shop!

see the picture painted -see the essence of the topic

 

[brinny]

no ? what would he have done ? stooped down and wrote in the ground and then asked "where are your accusers ?"
the answer is, the accusers, in this case ..owned a cake shop!

see the picture painted -see the essence of the topic

Jesus forgave the woman for her sin and told her to go and sin no more....

Thank you kindly.

 

[Biblicist]

Jesus forgave the woman for her sin and told her to go and sin no more....

Thank you kindly.

That was a good reply!

 

[Alithis]

Of course it was and what's wrong with a Christian making a righteous judgement?

Remember, this couple (and thousands of others) are not simply protecting their Christian values within their business but they are making a stand for their Nation. From what I understand, as so many have taken a strong stand on this issue at least 13 States have enacted Laws to override Federal Law in this area. If the Christians had of decided to remain silent on this issue and with others as well, then the US would be further down the track of debauchery than what it is now.


Does it matter? These people have undoubtedly chosen a pathway that they will never return from. As this couple (and others) have made such a strong public stand it can only serve to stem the incredible tide of sodomy that is being imposed on their nation by evil powers.

its not a righteous judgment -only God can make that.our judgment is to see their great need and have compassion upon them .
we must stop this silly distinction between this sin and that sin.

many here support some missions venture over seas and the missionary aids those who are destitute of the street.. they are prostitutes,drug addicts,thieves ,abusers
etc .. yet we support ehm being cared for tended to clothed and fed .. but homosexuals .. who are also prisoners to common sin .. somehow we are to put them in a different basket and refuse the same love of God ? no my friend that is unrighteous flesh based judgment which we have no grounds to make .

we must learn to see past flesh and blood and see inside that body is a soul which will certainly perish except they get saved by faith and faith cometh by hearing and when we judge them we close their ears we do not open their ears to hear .we must walk in love and compassion for the worst of sinner and ONLY love and compassion.
for god will judge and it is this very judgment we are given the escape from

 

[brinny]

That was a good reply!

Thank you brother. God bless you.

 

[Alithis]

Jesus forgave the woman for her sin and told her to go and sin no more....

Thank you kindly.

yes .. and she responded to the judgment of those around her that considered themselves more righteous then her? ..
or she responded to the gracious love of the lord Jesus who simply loved her unconditionally ...
we all know she responded to the latter ..

they should have made the cake shared the gospel and left the judging to God .

 

[brinny]

yes .. and she responded to the judgment of those around her that considered themselves more righteous then her? ..
or she responded to the gracious love of the lord Jesus who simply loved her unconditionally ...
we all know she responded to the latter ..

they should have made the cake shared the gospel and left the judging to God .

she responded to his forgiveness and mercy, and His admonition to go and sin no more.

He did not collude with or agree with her sin, did He?

Thank you kindly.