Boy Killed by Cop Billed for Ambulance Ride - Cleveland seeks $500 from estate of Tamir Rice

[Soma Seer]

Is someone pointing a gun in your face intimidating? Did you think she would pull out a cell phone or make a move to do anything with a gun pointing at her? Should she have called the police right there? That she didn't is proof she wasn't intimidated?

I am 99.9% certain that if anyone, regardless of age, pointed anything resembling a weapon at me--especially at close range--I would be very scared. And my first concern would be to get as far from the perceived threat as possible before attempting to call for help. (I suspect it would be more difficult to make make that call, if wounded.)

That all said, I suspect anyone who may have had that toy gun pointed at them by Tamir Rice was reasonably frightened. (If I recall correctly, news sources stated that several people called the police about the incident, indicating that they were relatively concerned that the gun may be real--and, thus, a real threat to people's safety, including Tamir's.)

 

[Soma Seer]

Dp

 

[Vylo]

It's reasonable to assume that there may be a threat, but not to gun him down after jumping from your car like it is a rambo movie. C'mon. You command him to drop his weapon.

 

[davedajobauk]

and who, is going to rein-in, the horses that escaped, while the gate was open ?

That the lad was, "BIG for 12 years", is what killed-him ?
No !
The Police, did that !!

 

[Saleena]

He died because he was black. That's all it comes down to. Some how whites in this country seem to forget the double standard in how they are treated vs blacks. If he was a white male republican, he would have been given 3 days to surrender and then arrested not executed on the spot. The fact they drop the 500 dollar charge on the family is just salt in the wound. Let's not forget how the prosecutor's acted in this scenario.

 

[Murby]

He died because he was black.

He died because his stupid parents didn't teach him anything.

That's all it comes down to. Some how whites in this country seem to forget the double standard in how they are treated vs blacks.

While I wouldn't totally agree, there's some truth in that...

If he was a white male republican, he would have been given 3 days to surrender and then arrested not executed on the spot.

Perhaps you missed the video of the cops shooting a white republican guy near a federal reserve.. Might want to watch what happened when the members of the Bundy clan surrendered after chasing their SUV. In that instance, the cops shot the white republican guy without ever seeing the weapon.. just when he reached into his pocket.

The fact they drop the 500 dollar charge on the family is just salt in the wound. Let's not forget how the prosecutor's acted in this scenario.

The family tried suing them.. they should sue back. Teach them a lesson. ya.. I know. its a bit harsh and I probably wouldn't have taken that path if I was in charge.. but sometimes these cities get tired people suing cops for defending themselves.

Then again, sometimes the cops deserve it.

 

[Saleena]

He died because his stupid parents didn't teach him anything.

Mmmm I'd say that the cops killed him because the stupid training they get is insufficient and also a statistical disparity between how they treat whites vs blacks.



While I wouldn't totally agree, there's some truth in that...

Mmm yes.

Perhaps you missed the video of the cops shooting a white republican guy near a federal reserve.. Might want to watch what happened when the members of the Bundy clan surrendered after chasing their SUV. In that instance, the cops shot the white republican guy without ever seeing the weapon.. just when he reached into his pocket.

How long did it take for the government to actually respond to this? These people were handled with kids gloves, where as if it was a bunch of black panthers they would have been executed on the spot.

The family tried suing them.. they should sue back. Teach them a lesson. ya.. I know. its a bit harsh and I probably wouldn't have taken that path if I was in charge.. but sometimes these cities get tired people suing cops for defending themselves.

Then again, sometimes the cops deserve it.


I'm not one for bashing cops, I've seen plenty of good cops, the one cop who took time out of his day to spend in the black neighbourhoods is one example. I don't subscribe to that ALL COPS ARE EVIL because that's crap. I do however believe there is a massive discrepancy between violence against whites vs blacks. The harsher prison sentences as well. However I'm derailed and I apologize.

I believe Tamir if he was white would not have been executed so swiftly. I'm not calling this anything but cold blooded murder.

 

[Murby]

I do however believe there is a massive discrepancy between violence against whites vs blacks.

But that might just be because there are more black people in the low income inner city slums.

The harsher prison sentences as well. However I'm derailed and I apologize.

That's a valid observation... But it could also be because the lower income folks can't afford better lawyers.

I believe Tamir if he was white would not have been executed so swiftly. I'm not calling this anything but cold blooded murder.

Calling it cold blooded murder is a radical over-statement based on emotion. Whether the police acted to quickly or not is an argument that could occupy volumes.. but calling it a cold blooded murder is an exaggeration.

This child was attempting to intimidate strangers with a weapon for no other reason than to enjoy the effects of feeling power and control over others. His parents did not teach him correctly.. he was doomed to an early death the day he was born. What do you think was going to happen in a few years when he got his hands on a real weapon?

Tamir's death was not entirely his own fault.. it was not the cop's fault.. it was his parents responsibility to teach him and they failed catastrophically.

 

[Saleena]

I've seen enough on this that I am very angry on this so calling it emotional is quite accurate.

 

[Uncle Siggy]

http://www.newser.com/story/220410/boy-killed-by-cop-billed-for-ambulance-ride.html

I think this is SOP for a lot of towns/cities/townships. If the ambulance responds it is billed to that person or their insurance, you pay for the services one way or the other...

 

[tulc]

Look folks.. This isn't "quick draw mcgraw" wild west stuff.. This was a kid with a gun.. This incident was all over the news here because it happened just a few hours south.
Cops got a report of a person intimidating people by pointing a gun at them in a park. They pulled up and as soon as they did, the kid reached for the gun.. so they shot him.

Its funny how people in this thread are so quick to blame cops and don't seem to mention any responsibility of the parents. Nope.. nada.. its all the cops fault.

Tell ya what.. you go become a cop and run around dealing with crazy wacked out drug addicts who are armed and dangerous and don't give a rats behind about thinking twice before they shoot you.. Deal with that every single day and you'll begin to realize why a cop would rather put you in the ground then give you a chance to put him in the ground.

This kid was justifiably shot.. I'm not even a cop and I would have shot him had he pointed that thing at me or reached for it as he did.

But hey.. lets blame this on the cops rather than the parents.. because, you know.. the cops should have been able to scan this kid up and down with their built-in x-ray vision and should have determined that they were in no danger.

I would point out one thing:
See this video:

That video is the length of time Tamir Rice and the police officers interacted before he was shot. You may wonder why that matters, glad you asked: those two seconds was all the time the police officers gave Tamir Rice the opportunity to surrender, put his hands up, to do anything before they shot him. He was given 2 seconds to to decide what to do. You tell me what 12 year old is going to know the best thing to do to stay alive when given 2 seconds to make the decision?
tulc(two seconds is not a long time)

 

[Murby]

That video is the length of time Tamir Rice and the police officers interacted before he was shot. You may wonder why that matters, glad you asked: those two seconds was all the time the police officers gave Tamir Rice the opportunity to surrender, put his hands up, to do anything before they shot him. He was given 2 seconds to to decide what to do. You tell me what 12 year old is going to know the best thing to do to stay alive when given 2 seconds to make the decision?
tulc(two seconds is not a long time)

Lets try an experiment yes? I'll put a paintball gun under my belt.. you stand in front of me and say "GO". And I'll bet I can shoot you with that paintball gun in under 2 seconds.

You know that's a realistic scenario.. and you know I could easily draw and shoot in that two seconds. Two seconds is actually a lot of time to be able to draw and shoot, but a very short amount of time to react to another event.

Try it yourself.. you'll see what I mean. Keep in mind that even if the bad guy gets shot during the draw, as long as he gets his weapon out and pointed at you, he can probably still pull the trigger and get you.

In that rough neighborhood, I wouldn't take the chance with my own life.. and I wouldn't want my family to mourn my mistake when I did.

 

[Nithavela]

Lets try an experiment yes? I'll put a paintball gun under my belt.. you stand in front of me and say "GO". And I'll bet I can shoot you with that paintball gun in under 2 seconds.

You know that's a realistic scenario.. and you know I could easily draw and shoot in that two seconds. Two seconds is actually a lot of time to be able to draw and shoot, but a very short amount of time to react to another event.

Try it yourself.. you'll see what I mean. Keep in mind that even if the bad guy gets shot during the draw, as long as he gets his weapon out and pointed at you, he can probably still pull the trigger and get you.

In that rough neighborhood, I wouldn't take the chance with my own life.. and I wouldn't want my family to mourn my mistake when I did.

When you put it like this, why didn't the police just roll in there with an armored vehicle and shoot tamir from a block away with an LMG?

 

[iluvatar5150]

Lets try an experiment yes? I'll put a paintball gun under my belt.. you stand in front of me and say "GO". And I'll bet I can shoot you with that paintball gun in under 2 seconds.

You know that's a realistic scenario.. and you know I could easily draw and shoot in that two seconds. Two seconds is actually a lot of time to be able to draw and shoot, but a very short amount of time to react to another event.

Try it yourself.. you'll see what I mean. Keep in mind that even if the bad guy gets shot during the draw, as long as he gets his weapon out and pointed at you, he can probably still pull the trigger and get you.

In that rough neighborhood, I wouldn't take the chance with my own life.. and I wouldn't want my family to mourn my mistake when I did.

I'd like to see this, because I bet that you're wrong. I have timed some of these things and they take longer than you might think.

However, to make it closer to what actually happened to Tamir Rise, the phrase has to be "drop the gun" rather than "go", and the time starts when he opens his mouth, not when he finishes saying the word "gun."

It'll take him over a second just to say the phrase "drop the gun." (it took me between 1.3 - 2.1s to say it when I timed myself) Then there's another 250+ ms of reaction time before you can even tell your brain to move your hand (that's a minimum reaction time if you're expecting to have to respond to that stimulus; it's much longer if you're not expecting an order and you have to comprehend it). That means that you have, at best, half a second to grab the gun, aim, and fire.

 

[SepiaAndDust]

This child was attempting to intimidate strangers with a weapon for no other reason than to enjoy the effects of feeling power and control over others.

You made that up.

His parents did not teach him correctly..

You made that up.

What do you think was going to happen in a few years when he got his hands on a real weapon?

You made that up.

it was his parents responsibility to teach him and they failed catastrophically.

You made that up.

 

[Murby]

I'd like to see this, because I bet that you're wrong. I have timed some of these things and they take longer than you might think.

You should watch Myth Busters.. Its a great show. They did the whole quick draw thing but I forget what season it was in. What I do remember is that one guy was able to draw and fire within just 0.02 seconds. While us normal folks would never be that fast, two seconds is a lot of time.. Both you and I as amateurs could do it in two seconds.

If I was a black guy in a bad neighborhood and I saw a police officer approaching, I would simply turn my back to him.. maybe put my hands in the air.. If a cop shoots you in the back, I'm pretty sure he's going to prison.

 

[Belk]

You should watch Myth Busters.. Its a great show. They did the whole quick draw thing but I forget what season it was in. What I do remember is that one guy was able to draw and fire within just 0.02 seconds. While us normal folks would never be that fast, two seconds is a lot of time.. Both you and I as amateurs could do it in two seconds.

If I was a black guy in a bad neighborhood and I saw a police officer approaching, I would simply turn my back to him.. maybe put my hands in the air.. If a cop shoots you in the back, I'm pretty sure he's going to prison.

The target time to draw, aim, and hit your target for an experienced CC person who practices regularly is 1.5 seconds. I question your claim of an amateur being able to reliably draw and shoot in two seconds.

 

[Murby]

The target time to draw, aim, and hit your target for an experienced CC person who practices regularly is 1.5 seconds. I question your claim of an amateur being able to reliably draw and shoot in two seconds.

I would tend to agree with you... But would you literally bet your life on it?

 

[Vylo]

Lets try an experiment yes? I'll put a paintball gun under my belt.. you stand in front of me and say "GO". And I'll bet I can shoot you with that paintball gun in under 2 seconds.

You know that's a realistic scenario.. and you know I could easily draw and shoot in that two seconds. Two seconds is actually a lot of time to be able to draw and shoot, but a very short amount of time to react to another event.

Try it yourself.. you'll see what I mean. Keep in mind that even if the bad guy gets shot during the draw, as long as he gets his weapon out and pointed at you, he can probably still pull the trigger and get you.

In that rough neighborhood, I wouldn't take the chance with my own life.. and I wouldn't want my family to mourn my mistake when I did.

I'm not sure what they has to do with anything. You wouldn't take the chance with your own life, that's fine, but that would also make you a murderer for shooting someone who just happened to have a gun.

Cops aren't just there to blast away any threat, simply perceived or even real. They are there to neutralize the threat. The reaction should not be to immediately kill anyone who might be dangerous. If the kid was shooting at them, sure, go for it. But he wasn't, because it wasn't a real gun.

 

[Vylo]

I would tend to agree with you... But would you literally bet your life on it?

Failure to would make you a killer unless that person actually pointed their weapon at you.