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JimB

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For a dozen or so years I have written a weekly book review column for the religion page of our local newspaper.

At the request of a couple of CF friends, I will post these reviews from week to week here in the general SFPC forum for those who may be interested. If you want to debate the reviews, I would suggest you open a separate thread in the debate forum and leave this forum for discussion.

I hope you find these informative.

Anyhow, here goes.

 

JimB

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Faith & Doubt
John Ortberg
(Zondervan, 192pgs, $22h)

We Christians don’t like to discuss our doubts. We don’t even like to think about them. Having doubt is like insulting God, calling his integrity into question, admitting that we are weaker than we would like to think. So we suppress our doubts to hide our lack of uneasiness about some of the things we have been taught to believe. And there is little advice available to help us through those tentative times. But one of those helps recently came from theologian Alister McGrath’s 2007 book, “Doubting: Growing Through the Uncertainties of Life.” Doubt, according to McGrath, is not the same as unbelief and it is not necessarily the antithesis of faith. Doubt creeps in involuntarily, he says, uninvited. Unbelief, on the other hand, is a willful act, a deliberate choice not to believe. According to what I gathered from McGrath, we go from faith to faith through our doubts, not around them, making doubt an unlikely but necessary component to faith—that is, providing we work through our misgivings and do not embrace them.

Apparently, best-selling author John Ortberg has come to similar conclusions in his new book, “Faith & Doubt.” McGrath, who is a respected theologian, spelled it out in rational, logical terms, but Ortberg is a pastor and presents his case in more familiar terms, using a remarkable gift of disarming wit to approach a very serious subject. At times, between grimaces, I was surprised to hear myself laughing out loud. In the circles I have moved over the years, I sometimes felt it necessary to conceal my doubts because I feared being misunderstood or even censured. So, I kept my uneasy reservations to myself. But writers like McGrath and Ortberg are helping me come out of the closet. Ortberg in the very first sentence of the book frankly confesses, “I will tell you a secret: I have doubts,” and he admits to them despite the fact that he “grew up in the church, went to a faith-based college, then to seminary, walked the straight and narrow, and never sowed any wild oats.” It was not the externals of religion that troubled him, he was good at disguising his doubts; it was those inner uncertainties, the seeming paradoxes he encountered in living out his Christian faith. He had bet the farm on faith, yet at times nagging disbelief troubled him.

I not only related but found his candor refreshing.

It may seem strange that Ortberg would write about doubt following his previous book, “If You Want to Walk on Water, You've Got to Get Out of the Boat,” which was all about bold, risking, walking-on-water faith. But, then, as I reflect on it, it is not so strange at all. Maybe it will not be to you, either, when you give him a hearing. It seems that when I make my boldest affirmations of faith that some unforeseen doubt creeps in to blind side me. This uncertainty, Ortberg says, can go wrong; it can lead to skepticism, cynicism and even rebellion. But uncertainty can also work for us by pointing out the flaws in your belief system. Uncertainty, when properly faced, can cause us to learn, to push ahead to a firmer understanding of truth, but most especially to be taught to trust.
 
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pdudgeon

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For a dozen or so years I have written a weekly book review column for the religion page of our local newspaper.

At the request of a couple of CF friends, I will post these reviews from week to week here in the general SFPC forum for those who may be interested. If you want to debate the reviews, I would suggest you open a separate thread in the debate forum and leave this forum for discussion.

I hope you find these informative.

Anyhow, here goes.


wow, that's something i didn't know about you.
these should be an interesting read.:)
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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wow, that's something i didn't know about you.
these should be an interesting read.:)

I experience doubts sometimes. Not doubts about God, but the people around me who claim to know God and try to speak for Him into my life or are in the pulpit teaching things that to me just don't seem to add up to what is being taught. I have mostly held back from expressing these doubts for fear that I would be looked at as a heretic or rebellious. The times that I did express it I was looked at as heretic or rebellious. :( It took me forever digging through all the misunderstandings of my questions regarding a particular subject ...all because those who said they had the answers took offense when in trying to understand I asked too many questions. They seemed to take it as a personal affront. It should not be that way.
 
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JimB

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I experience doubts sometimes. Not doubts about God, but the people around me who claim to know God and try to speak for Him into my life or are in the pulpit teaching things that to me just don't seem to add up to what is being taught. I have mostly held back from expressing these doubts for fear that I would be looked at as a heretic or rebellious. The times that I did express it I was looked at as heretic or rebellious. :( It took me forever digging through all the misunderstandings of my questions regarding a particular subject ...all because those who said they had the answers took offense when in trying to understand I asked too many questions. They seemed to take it as a personal affront. It should not be that way.

I just discussed this with one of the members of our church. I was talking to him about Ortberg’s book (above) and he said he would like to revive the synagogue-style of meetings where people could discuss, even debate, issues as Paul did when he disputed in the synagogues of his day or a forum like the Agora where Paul debated the philosophers. Of course, the debate in those instances were probably more civilized than some of our debates here ;), but what he was driving at is that there should be a place where Christians can meet to discuss things that concern them—even their doubts—without being condemned or ostracized. That is almost impossible in doctrinaire churches where you either become a company man or find another place to worship. Ironically, this is how cults keep their members in line.

When we feel we cannot discuss these things openly and freely with other believers, we either deny our doubts (which does not remove them) or simply disguise them (and become hypocrites).

At least, this has been my experience.

~Jim
The Bible is so simple you have to have help to misunderstand it.
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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I just discussed this with one of the members of our church. I was talking to him about Ortberg’s book (above) and he said he would like to revive the synagogue-style of meetings where people could discuss, even debate, issues as Paul did when he disputed in the synagogues of his day or a forum like the Agora where Paul debated the philosophers. Of course, the debate in those instances were probably more civilized than some of our debates here ;), but what he was driving at is that there should be a place where Christians can meet to discuss things that concern them—even their doubts—without being condemned or ostracized. That is almost impossible in doctrinaire churches where you either become a company man or find another place to worship. Ironically, this is how cults keep their members in line.

When we feel we cannot discuss these things openly and freely with other believers, we either deny our doubts (which does not remove them) or simply disguise them (and become hypocrites).

At least, this has been my experience.

~Jim
The Bible is so simple you have to have help to misunderstand it.

Perfect example Jim. That is one of the things I like so much about the Messianic congregations. Generally, they have an Oneg (potluck) after the Sabbath services and that is a time that is used to not only eat and fellowship with each other but it's a time of extra teaching by the Rabbi as he sits and eats with everyone. One congregation that I was able to attend only a few times in Florida at the teaching time the Rabbi sat in a comfortable easy chair and just talked and as he taught allowed questions and it was all very casual. It was wonderful. I don't understand where the gentile groups got the idea that teaching was to be :preach: and then we all leave and go home. I can't say that I've ever experienced the hassle with questions in the Messianic congregations as I have in the other. :scratch:

I don't know about more civilized. Ten Jews discussing scripture will get you ten different views but that was not a problem to anyone then. It was all taken into consideration. The only one who actually topped them all I believe was Jesus. Imagine, having to sit and listen to discussion of the word by those with limited understanding and HE was the Word. LOL We could take some looking at HIS example.
 
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JimB

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A book a week for a number of years seems like a lot to me. Do you ever find yourself concerned that immersing yourself with such a variety of doctrines and opinions may be effect you over time?

Quite the contrary. I would hope that, after 44 years of following Christ, I was more grounded in what I believe than to let a book shake my faith. If I were that insecure, I would be afraid to talk about the faith to anyone outside of my faith group. But what I have discovered is how much wisdom is in the marketplace and on our bookstore shelves. The Lord has given to His church (universal) wonderful teachers (even outside the P/C ranks) who can share their learning with us, teach us, through books, podcasts, CD’s, DVD’s, etc.—that is, if we will avail ourselves of them.

What I no longer do is read only inside my preferred theological box, i.e. just those things that support what I already (think I) know. Reading for a general audience has forced me outside of my comfort zones and taught me more than I could have every learned insulated from the rest of Christianity.

Of course, there are boundaries to what I will read/review, but as long as a book is published by a member of CBA or ECPA, I am okay with it. And guess what, because I am an established reviewer, all the Christian publishers supply the books or galley copies I want to review free of charge.

~Jim
The Bible is so simple you have to have help to misunderstand it.

 
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Faulty

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I wasn't thinking so much as a book shaking your faith, but more a long term manipulation of your thought processes. Just seems to me that if you were to come across a lie time-after-time, year-after-year, it might start making sense. Goebbels even talked to that effect when he said, "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."

I'm not suggesting that's happened, I just wonder if you keep yourself on guard for those types of things.
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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I wasn't thinking so much as a book shaking your faith, but more a long term manipulation of your thought processes. Just seems to me that if you were to come across a lie time-after-time, year-after-year, it might start making sense. Goebbels even talked to that effect when he said, "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."

I'm not suggesting that's happened, I just wonder if you keep yourself on guard for those types of things.


That happens within our churches.
 
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JimB

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I wasn't thinking so much as a book shaking your faith, but more a long term manipulation of your thought processes. Just seems to me that if you were to come across a lie time-after-time, year-after-year, it might start making sense. Goebbels even talked to that effect when he said, "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."

I'm not suggesting that's happened, I just wonder if you keep yourself on guard for those types of things.

I have more confidence in the Spirit of Truth in me than that.

Still, what you say can happen when we only read the books we prefer or just the books that support what we already believe. I mean, what if what we have b believed is chocked full of errors? Then reading only those things that support us in our error would only sink us deeper in it. What I have discovered in reading outside my comfortable box is that there are ideas outside my box that are truly spiritually enlightening and faith expanding.

I would urge you, as would any Bible instructor worth his salt, don’t let fear of learning keep you from growing.

~Jim
The Bible is so simple you have to have help to misunderstand it.
 
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Optimax

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I wasn't thinking so much as a book shaking your faith, but more a long term manipulation of your thought processes. Just seems to me that if you were to come across a lie time-after-time, year-after-year, it might start making sense. Goebbels even talked to that effect when he said, "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it."

I'm not suggesting that's happened, I just wonder if you keep yourself on guard for those types of things.


Very good point. What we hear is very important.

Jesus thought so as well. He said;

Mk 4:24
And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.
KJV
 
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BenAdam

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I have more confidence in the Spirit of Truth in me than that.

Still, what you say can happen when we only read the books we prefer or just the books that support what we already believe. I mean, what if what we have b believed is chocked full of errors? Then reading only those things that support us in our error would only sink us deeper in it. What I have discovered in reading outside my comfortable box is that there are ideas outside my box that are truly spiritually enlightening and faith expanding.

I would urge you, as would any Bible instructor worth his salt, don’t let fear of learning keep you from growing.

~Jim

The Bible is so simple you have to have help to misunderstand it.

:ok:
 
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