Bill to protect Down Syndrome babies presented to Missouri

[redleghunter]

Speaking of that we just found out last week the 3rd Grandchild is going to be a boy...

Congrats!!! Bet you have all the baseball gear ready.

 

[Hank77]

Your attitude seems to be that if the parents can't cope, they should have to support the child regardless, which to me anyway infers that they might just as well take the baby home. That would be a tragic scenario. Money shouldn't make any difference when people are faced with this scenario.

I did not state any attitude at ALL. Your assumptions may be far off base.
The comment was made as to how would the state take care of these people and I stated that even now there are states which charge parents child support for kids that are in other peoples care. That is how they partially pay for it.
That is simply stating a fact and does not speak to my own views or attitudes about whether this is a right or wrong method of caring for the people in this discussion.

 

[Uncle Siggy]

Congrats!!! Bet you have all the baseball gear ready.

Not yet but he will be getting a ball glove next Christmas...

 

[redleghunter]

That is the question. Who is going to pay for it? I remember a couple that took an unwed mother into their home. I do not know if the girl kept the baby or put the baby up for adoption. But they gave her a room in their house and they took care of her. They were against abortion and they felt it was their obligation to do something to help a young mother bring her baby to term. My wife and I refused the amniocentesis and one of the doctors did not even respect our decision. He wanted to argue with me about it. It was my choice and my opinion and it was up to me to investigate what I was doing. It was NOT his choice and it was not his decision.

This happened with my dad. He use to argue that something only effected 3 % of the population and they did not worry about that three percent because 97% of the people benefited from the procedure. I use to argue with him about it and in the end he died when he because a part of that 3% category. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

You probably saw my post, but yes the docs were pushy on the amniocentesis. My wife refused as well.

 

[redleghunter]

Their views have nothing to do with people abusing it. Their view is that the government has no right to take monies from their paycheck, etc. in taxes and give it to anyone else. They believe that it is the job of the church to take care of those in need. I personally agree with this but the reality is that I don't see any indication that the churches would step up to take care of ALL the needy or to help those who are in a temporary slump.
Mr Romeny's comment about the 47%ers is especially offensive. The Mormon church is not inclined to help the needy unless they convert to Mormonism. At least that is what I have witnessed in my own community. I suspect that may be the view of some other denominations or individual churches as well. Live by our rules and we will help you. The reason I feel this way is because of comments that I have heard and see by many. That is just not the picture I get from the story of the good Samaritan.

Speaking of Samaritans:

http://www.samaritanspurse.org/our-ministry/donate-online/

Just one of so many Christian charitable organizations outside our local churches.

 

[redleghunter]

These rascally special needs kids are such a drain on the system. They need to just get it together and find jobs like real Americans.

What's amazing about your callous comments is the irony.

Young adults with Downs are usually in the workforce actually earning money before healthy teens and young adults. It is part of their independence training.

 

[redleghunter]

Or they can drop them off at the local agency, which in many states has to take them, with no identification of who the parents are.

Why do you want to force parents to raise kids they don't want? Don't you think that's a huge trauma for the child?

From what I hear, death can be just as traumatic.

 

[joshua 1 9]

Doctors said a lot of different things 30 years ago. She might not have it as bad. Or she wouldn't be able to have a normal life. Also sonograms are better now days, then 30 something years ago.

She does not have a normal life. But she manages somehow.

 

[Hetta]

From what I hear, death can be just as traumatic.

And yet still inevitable.

 

[Hetta]

And as always from the culture of disposal the lowest common denominator is invoked.

There are a lot of loving people stepping up to adopt children with disabilities, DS being just one:

http://reecesrainbow.org/

https://www.facebook.com/dsadoption/

http://themighty.com/2015/03/6-tips-to-consider-when-planning-to-adopt-a-child-with-down-syndrome/

http://www.lifenews.com/2015/03/24/...th-down-syndrome-here-is-their-amazing-story/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kari-wagnerpeck/on-adopting-a-kid-with-down-syndrome_b_4608455.html

Excerpt from Huffington Post article: (very good personal account at link above):

"You want to know what people really think about kids with Down syndrome? Tell someone you're thinking of getting one. No one said anything close to "Hey, awesome!" It was more like "Why do you want to do that to yourself?" or "That sounds hard" or "Don't do that, please."

We heard grief stories. We heard them from parents who had children with Down syndrome. We heard them from friends who had friends who were parents of kids with Down syndrome. Those stories are essentially the same. They are about parents not getting the child they had planned on. You know, the one without Down syndrome."

http://www.downsyndromeprenataltest...-compassionate-missions-in-the-united-states/

Those are agencies trying to place children with Trisomy 21 (the correct term, btw), and not people who are "stepping up." Take a look sometime at the kids who are living in homes in your local city who are awaiting adoption. There are thousands of them. Everyone wants a perfect baby, not a disabled child and, quite honestly, that isn't something that most people *should* be aiming for, because it's not easy to handle even your own disabled child, let alone an adopted child. My cousin has 3 kids on the autism spectrum, one of whom is severely physically disabled. She works extremely hard and struggles to raise those kids. She is fortunate to have many family members willing to help/support her, but she would absolutely not have chosen to have kids who were disabled, if any choice was given.

 

[redleghunter]

And yet still inevitable.

Yes especially inevitable if some other carbon based life form decides to take life from us.

 

[Hetta]

Yes especially inevitable if some other carbon based life form decides to take life from us.

"Carbon based life form"? As we in Star Trek the Movie territory here?

 

[redleghunter]

"Carbon based life form"? As we in Star Trek the Movie territory here?

Just wanted to be accurate as half the people posting here would respond "Well God takes our life eventually."

So I was speaking more of the human on human taking of life.

 

[cow451]

And as always from the culture of disposal the lowest common denominator is invoked.

There are a lot of loving people stepping up to adopt children with disabilities, DS being just one:

http://reecesrainbow.org/

https://www.facebook.com/dsadoption/

http://themighty.com/2015/03/6-tips-to-consider-when-planning-to-adopt-a-child-with-down-syndrome/

http://www.lifenews.com/2015/03/24/...th-down-syndrome-here-is-their-amazing-story/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kari-wagnerpeck/on-adopting-a-kid-with-down-syndrome_b_4608455.html

Excerpt from Huffington Post article: (very good personal account at link above):

"You want to know what people really think about kids with Down syndrome? Tell someone you're thinking of getting one. No one said anything close to "Hey, awesome!" It was more like "Why do you want to do that to yourself?" or "That sounds hard" or "Don't do that, please."

We heard grief stories. We heard them from parents who had children with Down syndrome. We heard them from friends who had friends who were parents of kids with Down syndrome. Those stories are essentially the same. They are about parents not getting the child they had planned on. You know, the one without Down syndrome."

http://www.downsyndromeprenataltest...-compassionate-missions-in-the-united-states/

I never said NO ONE would. Just pointing out that adding unwanted children to an over-burdened system is not going to be the fantasy love-fest envisioned by the RTL's. Special needs kids are called that for a reason. Downs is only one type, the focus here because it can more often be predicted.

From a blog of a mother who lives the life (RAD= Reactive Attachment Disorder):

Politicians insisting on protecting unborn fetuses, while refusing to commit to caring for these children after they have taken their first breath.
Having several adopted children with RAD or the adult version of Borderline Personality Disorder, yet not having community support or even a consensus of what treatment will help.
My youngest is still struggling every single day. I did not take her from her mother. I did not cause the damage that torments her. I try to make a difference and then hear RAD is just an excuse to abuse children.

I have no answers. Do you?

 

[Hank77]

Fair enough, my mistake, your post made it sound like it was your point of view...

I think though that we are going down a possible rabbit hole as their are plenty of cases where a parent would have to pay child support but those are separate issues. I am almost positive that the mother can surrender a child at birth for adoption WITHOUT any reprisals or having to pay child support if she relinquishes all rights.

That is true about adoption, but is the state adopting the child or are they, hopefully, a temporary legal guardian until the child is adopted? I don't trust the state to always make rational laws that are in the best interest of all those involved.

 

[Cearbhall]

Senator David Sater (R-Missouri) has submitted a bill that would bar abortions because of a prenatal diagnosis, test or screening indicating the potential of Down Syndrome in the unborn baby.

I never understand how they plan to enforce these laws. You can't prove in a court of law that a woman or couple is choosing to abort because of the diagnosis. The only way to do it would be to have people sign a document that says they renounce their right to abortion services when they elect to have the testing done, but that doesn't make sense.

 

[cow451]

I never understand how they plan to enforce these laws. You can't prove in a court of law that a woman or couple is choosing to abort because of the diagnosis. The only way to do it would be to have people sign a document that says they renounce their right to abortion services when they elect to have the testing done, but that doesn't make sense.

That little privacy thing is soooooo inconvenient sometimes.

 

[Cearbhall]

Just what the USA needs, more people with a low IQ.

Hey now, let's not act as if any woman has a societal obligation to abort.

 

[Hank77]

Speaking of Samaritans:

http://www.samaritanspurse.org/our-ministry/donate-online/

Just one of so many Christian charitable organizations outside our local churches.

This is certainly a wonderful organization but they have very few ministries within the US. If we are to believe that the church is going to care for all the people who need it in the US that will mean much more money will need to be invested here.
If we campaign to take away entitlements then we will need to do what we say we should be doing. This would include caring for all the disabled children who have no one else to care for their needs. Children who either their parents are not equipped to care for them or don't want to.

 

[Uncle Siggy]

A made up quote from a nonsense chain email. You guys will apparently believe anything you get in your Mailbox.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...email-says-former-czech-president-called-ame/
http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/pragerzeitungon.asp
https://www.truthorfiction.com/vaclav-klaus/

Actually I was bored the other day and was looking up humorous pictures for another forum when that popped up, the wife seen it and about died laughing...

So do you disagree with the quote/statement/opinion itself or is it because it was attributed to Vaclav Klaus???

This is something he did say though: "Environmentalism should belong in the social sciences" along with other "isms" such as communism, feminism, and liberalism. Klaus said that "environmentalism is a religion" and, answering questions of U.S. Congressmen, a "modern counterpart of communism" that seeks to change peoples' habits and economic systems".[55]

Even if he didn't say it I have no doubt he has a smile on his face because he's thinking "I wish I had said that"...