Biblical Content and/or Christian Interpretation of Masonry

Skip Sampson

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Don't waste your time in very long debates like these.
It's not a waste of time because it's not about winning or scoring points. It's about drawing Masons out on discussing their own teachings.

The best way to end a discussion with a Mason is to quote from his GL's materials. They can't stand having such things brought to light, so to speak. Cordially, Skip.
 
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Rev Wayne

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Very good points made there brother. I am impressed with what you have found.

Problem is the anti's will twist anything to fit into their mold of what Masonry is. They spend so long forcing squares into round holes it must really frustrate them.
So true, as amply evidenced once again by our resident anti.
 
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Rev Wayne

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Don't waste your time in very long debates like these.
The best way to end a discussion with a Mason is to quote from his GL's materials. They can't stand having such things brought to light, so to speak. Cordially, Skip.
*Heh*
That's antimasonic double-speak, tw. What Skip actually means by that is, he's stuck for an answer to my most recent post to him.

It's much simpler, by the way, to end a conversation with an anti, all you have to do is point out the truth of the matter, and suddenly they avoid answering.
 
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Skip Sampson

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Rev Wayne said:
he's stuck for an answer to my most recent post to him.
No, my answer is in post #158. I saw nothing in your commentary that would lead me to change anything in that post or even to restate it.

I will address two additional points:
Rev Wayne said:
cite for us the exact page reference in the SC LSME where you find any mention of "he is called many names by many people."
That is called a strawman, as I never made such a claim. You err in attempting to take my general conclusion about masonry ("called by many names") and mistakenly claiming I attributed it to the LSME. Here are my comments that you are attempting to address:
Skip said:
Masonry does indeed teach that there is a god, let's call him GAOTU, which is the actual god of the universe, and that he is called by many names by many people. The LSME fully supports that idea.
Note that the first sentence is a general conclusion about Masonry, while the second sentence notes that the SC GL LSME supports that conclusion.' The basis for that is in the LSME statement
our name for that Deity in whose existence all Masons have professed belief,
The implications of the statement speaks for itself: our name ............ for that Deity ............. in whose existence all Masons have expressed belief. Or, to translate, "our name for that one universal god, who is worshipped under many names, in whom all Masons believe."

Rev Wayne said:
The LSME simply says "that Deity in whom all Masons have expressed belief," and further indicates that the letter G represents the first letter of His name. Following all that SC Masonry ACTUALLY SAYS on that point (which means of course, that we must consult their AUTHORITATIVE manual rather than the OPTIONAL LSME), we find the specific reference to which they refer, on p. 151, and recognize the reference is to Yahweh, God of the Bible.
By that statement, you are claiming that all Masons claim belief in the God of the Bible. Is that indeed your position? If not, just who that "Deity in whom all Masons have expressed belief?"

BTW, the LSME is as authoritative as the AR, coming as they do from the same authority. Cordially, Skip.
 
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Rev Wayne

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Unless you think all Masons believe in the God of the Bible

Speaking of SC Masonry, which of course is all that the LSME could hope to be addressing, that's not only exactly what I "think," it's exactly what I KNOW. I can't count the times I've pointed out exactly this point to you, that the lessons in all three degrees are Bible-based, and when they do have reference to God, it is to the God represented in the Bible. The question of who God is, is not an issue confronted by any Mason who knows the God of the Bible as the God of his faith, for everywhere he chooses to look in Masonry, he finds the God of the Bible at the center of the lessons of each degree. The issue becomes problematic only for the Mason of some other religion, for he finds the same thing--the God of the Bible represented in all three degrees--and he must somehow reconcile the idea that by his participation in Masonry he acknowledges the God of the Bible as the true God. If that goes against the tenets of his own faith, that is a problem for him, not for me, or for any other Mason either. Finding the God of the Bible at the heart of Masonry is not a problem for me, since I find Him at the heart of my Christian faith already.

our name for that Deity in whose existence all Masons have professed belief,

Somehow you keep forgetting that you can't isolate statements to the total exclusion of other statements in our jurisdiction. That is pure error in itself, not considering the full context; but it is even greater context in your case because you violate your own principles set forth in your "pecking order" of Masonic documents. Ahiman Rezon affirms:

It Is hardly necessary to say that the letter G, wherever spoken of in Masonry as a symbol, Is merely a modern substitution for the Hebrew letter yod, ~, which was the initial of Jehovah, the tetragammaton, and, therefore, constantly used as a symbol of Deity. (SC Ahiman Rezon, 2012, p. 151)

This is to be taken in tandem with the LSME booklet, which is ALSO a South Carolina document. When it speaks of "ALL Masons," it speaks authoritatively only for South Carolina, since it is a document adopted specifically by and for the South Carolina jurisdiction of Masonry. Ahiman Rezon also states:

The small hill near Mount Moriah can be clearly identified by the most convincing analogies as being no other than Mount Calvary. Thus Mount Calvary was a small hill; it was situated in a westerly direction from the Temple, and near Mount Moriah; It was on the direct road
from Jerusalem to Joppa, and is thus the very spot where a weary brother, traveling on the road, would find it convenient to sit down to rest and refresh himself; itwas outside the gate of the Temple; and lastly, there are several caves, or clefts in the rocks, in the neighborhood,one of which, it will be remembered, was, subsequently to the time of this tradition, used as the sepulchre of our Lord. The Christian Mason will readily perceive the peculiar character of the symbolism which this identificationof the spot on which the great truth of the resurrectionwas unfolded in both systems—the Masonic and the Christian—must suggest. (SC Ahiman Rezon, p. 149-50)
This statement specifically connects the teaching of the resurrection in the third degree, to the resurrection as taught in Christianity.

The specific statements found in Ahiman Rezon cannot be relegated to a position of lesser import than the LSME--ESPECIALLY in a jurisdiction where the LSME is little-used and widely unknown. Ahiman Rezon affirms the God of the Bible, and Ahiman Rezon is the officially-sanctioned monitor of this jurisdiction. If you find statements you feel are different, or more to the point, that you feel you can SPIN to suit you, you really need to call yourself back to your own instructions, that monitors and rituals are the key documents of any Masonic jurisdiction.

By that statement, you are claiming that all Masons claim belief in the God of the Bible. Is that indeed your position?

I'm simply setting forth what is declared in a publication which is ACTUALLY authoritative in our jurisdiction, and not just in the mind of one detractor who can't even keep his own pecking order straight.

BTW, the LSME is as authoritative as the AR, coming as they do from the same authority.

Same error once again. The claim is particularly specious in light of the fact that the LSME is self-described as "optional," which Ahiman Rezon clearly is NOT.

Claiming the same authority for two documents simply on the basis of their having come from the same source, is ludicrous in itself. That's like saying the president's inaugural address carries the same authority as legislation from Congress which he signs into law.

Besides, have you not noticed that every Ahiman Rezon contains the seal of the Grand Lodge, while the LSME does not? If you don't recognize that difference, you truly don't understand anything about Masonry to begin with.
 
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