Bible Contradiction?

Doveaman

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“Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved.”...Rom 11:26.

“Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will be saved.”...Rom 9:27.

Is there a contradiction here: Rom 11 tells us “all Israel will be saved”, meaning everyone, but Rom 9 tells us “only a remnant will be saved”, meaning only a few?

How do we make sense of these two verses that appear to be a contradiction?
 
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lenpettis74

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Just back up a few verses in Chapter 9 and you will find your answer:

"6It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." 8In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring."

In Romans 9:27 the distinction is the word "Isrealites" or residents of Isreal at that time: Jews. Only a small number of Jews at that time believed that Jesus was the Christ. By God's great grace the Messianic Jew movement throughout the world is growing by leaps and bounds.

In Romans 11:26 "All Isreal shall be saved" refers to "Children of the Promise" or those who submit their lives to Jesus Christ; Jew or Gentile.

Hope this helps. God Bless!!!
 
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wayseer

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“Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved.”...Rom 11:26.

“Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will be saved.”...Rom 9:27.

Is there a contradiction here: Rom 11 tells us “all Israel will be saved”, meaning everyone, but Rom 9 tells us “only a remnant will be saved”, meaning only a few?

How do we make sense of these two verses that appear to be a contradiction?

How to make sense of these apparent contradictions? With difficulty.

You have to remember, Paul was not a Christian. He only knows two classes of people, the Jews and the Gentiles. So the first thing to do is forget about Christian theology and apologetics for a while and work from what Paul wrote - not what was written well after his death - which includes the Gospels.

At Rms 3:1-2 says, 'What is the advantage of the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? Much in every way'. Clearly Paul indicating that being a Jew is important - but every Jew must keep the law in every way (Gal 56:3). So, for Paul, the Torah remains in effect for all those who are circumcised - Israel's salvation is never in doubt.

In Rms 9 Paul uses a rhetorical device to try to get his point across which is largely lost in the 21st century. He employes a fictitious questioner against who he bounces off arguments and in doing so Paul misleads his reader in order to convince. At Rms 9:19 Paul open the fictitious dialogue, 'But one of you will say to me .... ' But it clear that Paul is not talking to Jews, but to the Gentiles. He clearly says so in v. 24. The following verses are OT scripture which he uses to demonstrate that God is calling those 'who were not my people' - meaning the Gentiles. And just as Isaiah records that God left some Jews behind so too might the same happen to the Gentiles.

We make too much of the perceived inconsistencies in Romans to the point that it is often argued that God has reject the Jews because they have not 'received' Christ. A closer reading of Romans should led us to accept that Paul still maintains his Jewish heritage and sees nothing wrong with the Jews receiving their salvation through adherence to the law. (If 'some are to be rejected' it because of their disobedience to the teachings of the Torah).

Finally, at Rms 15: 18 Paul make his intentions more than clear, 'I will be bold and speak only about what Christ has done through me to lead the Gentiles to obey God'. In his letter to the Romans he talking to Gentiles - not Jews. You have to read his epistle in that light.
 
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The remnant of genetic Israel that will be saved (Romans 9:27) is the elect portion of genetic Israel (Romans 9:6-11). All the elect unbelieving genetic Jews who have been spiritually blinded will be saved at the second coming (Romans 11:25-28), when they see the returned Jesus in person and become believers in him at that time (Zechariah 12:10-14). Jews, like Gentiles, are only saved by faith in Jesus, not by keeping the Mosaic law (Galatians 2:16).
 
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1whirlwind

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“Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved.”...Rom 11:26.

“Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will be saved.”...Rom 9:27.

Is there a contradiction here: Rom 11 tells us “all Israel will be saved”, meaning everyone, but Rom 9 tells us “only a remnant will be saved”, meaning only a few?

How do we make sense of these two verses that appear to be a contradiction?


I think it speaks of the first and second resurrection. The "remnant" that "will be saved" in [Rom.9:27] are...

Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
The "all Israel that will be saved," [Rom.11:26] are the righteous sheep separated from the goats. They didn't make the first resurrection, as did the remnant, so are considered the "dead," the spiritually dead throughout the millennium. They are still liable to die (they are incorruptible for that time but not yet immortal). They must face the deception of Satan one last time to be proven. They are the "Israel that will be saved" for that proving.
 
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Cribstyl

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“Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved.”...Rom 11:26.

“Though the number of the Israelites be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will be saved.”...Rom 9:27.

Is there a contradiction here: Rom 11 tells us “all Israel will be saved”, meaning everyone, but Rom 9 tells us “only a remnant will be saved”, meaning only a few?

How do we make sense of these two verses that appear to be a contradiction?
We can make sense of those verses by reading both those chapters carefully.
Rom 9:27Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Isaiah's cry is a prophetic reality of the ansestor of Israel; only a nominal amount of the descendents of Israel would believe in Jesus and accept the message of the gospel.

Chapter 11 explains it all..........


Rom 11:4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to [the image of] Baal.
Rom 11:5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

So the remnant noted by Paul were the Jews who accepted the message of the gospel to join the church.


The other prophesy about the salvation of all of Israel is a future reality.
It states that God blinded them until all the Gentiles get into the church.
So, it appears that in the future it appear that the eyes of Judaism will be open to the reality that Jesus was the son of God.

Rom 11:25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
 
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Doveaman

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The remnant of genetic Israel that will be saved (Romans 9:27) is the elect portion of genetic Israel (Romans 9:6-11). All the elect unbelieving genetic Jews who have been spiritually blinded will be saved at the second coming (Romans 11:25-28),
Are not all Jews elected, many of whom are now dead?
when they see the returned Jesus in person and become believers in him at that time (Zechariah 12:10-14).
This sounds like your own personal interpretation of Zechariah 12. Zechariah 12:10 speaks of "the inhabitants of Jerusalem" at that time. There is no mention of every elect Jew that has ever lived being saved.
 
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Doveaman

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We can make sense of those verses by reading both those chapters carefully.
Rom 9:27Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Isaiah's cry is a prophetic reality of the ansestor of Israel; only a nominal amount of the descendents of Israel would believe in Jesus and accept the message of the gospel.

Chapter 11 explains it all..........


Rom 11:4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to [the image of] Baal.
Rom 11:5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

So the remnant noted by Paul were the Jews who accepted the message of the gospel to join the church.
Why can't this remnant include those Jews who will join the church in the future and be saved? Why must it be only those who accepted the gospel in Paul's day?
The other prophesy about the salvation of all of Israel is a future reality.
It states that God blinded them until all the Gentiles get into the church.
So, it appears that in the future it appear that the eyes of Judaism will be open to the reality that Jesus was the son of God.


Rom 11:25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Yes. But does this mean that all Jews who have ever lived will be saved as the following verse seem to imply: "And so all Israel will be saved.”...Rom 11:26?
 
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Doveaman

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The remnent is a theme thruout the whole bible, from Gen-Rev. The bible doesn't contradict itself on that. There's a remnent mentioned from the Jews and from the church.
So what is meant by "all Israel will be saved.”...Rom 11:26?
 
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Doveaman

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You could take it to think that in 11:26, Paul is talking about the metaphorical Israel, God's kingdom, while in 9:27, he's talking about the real Israel. =)
Well, the fact that Paul mentioned in the previous verse 25 that "Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in" rules out verse 26 as being a metaphor since verse 26 is a followup statement to verse 25.
 
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Doveaman

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Just back up a few verses in Chapter 9 and you will find your answer:

"6It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." 8In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring."

In Romans 9:27 the distinction is the word "Isrealites" or residents of Isreal at that time: Jews. Only a small number of Jews at that time believed that Jesus was the Christ. By God's great grace the Messianic Jew movement throughout the world is growing by leaps and bounds.
But they are still only a remnant.
In Romans 11:26 "All Isreal shall be saved" refers to "Children of the Promise" or those who submit their lives to Jesus Christ; Jew or Gentile.
Well, the fact that Paul tells us that "Israel has experienced a hardening in part" in verse 25 suggest that he is only talking about Israel in verse 26 since verse 26 is a followup statement to verse 25.
 
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wayseer

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Why can't this remnant include those Jews who will join the church in the future and be saved? Why must it be only those who accepted the gospel in Paul's day?

You have missed the point. Paul is speaking to the Gentiles - NOT Jews. As I indicated above - forget the NT - it has not yet been written at the time of Paul. There is no Christian theology. Paul is NOT a Christian.

I know this is had to accept but if you want to understand Paul read what Paul writes, not what you think Paul writes.
 
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Doveaman

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What does the OT say about all Jews being elected? It would seem to say that all Jews are not elected.
Well then how can all be saved if they are not all elected - "And so all Israel will be saved.”...Rom 11:26?
 
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So what is meant by "all Israel will be saved.”...Rom 11:26?
I think it means that Israel is those who turn from their sins.

Isa 59:
20 “ The Redeemer will come to Zion,
And to those who turn from transgression in Jacob,”
Says the LORD.

21 “As for Me,” says the LORD, “this is My covenant with them:
My Spirit who is upon you, and My words which I have put in your mouth,
shall not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your descendants,
nor from the mouth of your descendants’ descendants,” says the LORD,
“from this time and forevermore.”
 
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