Bible-Based All-Wood Ark Takes Shape in Kentucky Field

[TheBear]

is right.

How can you even begin to compare the mass global extinction of all those human beings and animals who suffered a slow, frightening and drowning death, to your modern day inconvenience. Such an un-empathetic and self-centered way of thinking.

Wow

 

[mmksparbud]

Wow!! What a complete lack of comprehension of who God is!! Yes--He only saved 8 people--Why? Their every thought was violence, and evil
(Gen 6:5) And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
---A world of Charlie Manson's, Hitlers, Boston Stranglers, Matt and Sweat, and so forth who had no regard for life--a world who would have thought nothing at all of killing you and your whole family. I'm sure you had much empathy for that man who kidnapped and held captive those young girls for 10 years and raped and brutalized them, my empathy is for the girls. My empathy is for Noah and his family enduring all those years with such evil around them that it required the drastic measures taken to clean it up---and the last days will be as those days. I may be horrified that people were destroyed, but know that God knows the heart of each and is just and when faced with a world of Jeffrey Dahmers--I wonder how empathetic you would be. If you think God enjoyed it, you're really off base. It was a case of needing to cut out the cancer, so the patient can live. Sorry you can't see it.

 

[Green Sun]

I'm sure you had much empathy for that man who kidnapped and held captive those young girls for 10 years and raped and brutalized them, my empathy is for the girls.

Wow. I can't believe you actually said that.

That's a pretty terrible thing to say about another user.

 

[mmksparbud]

Really--?? So his evaluation God is accurate according to you?? It's my statement of him that upsets you and not his about God??!! Wow!

 

[Green Sun]

Really--?? So his evaluation God is accurate according to you?? It's my statement of him that upsets you and not his about God??!! Wow!

I said making such accusations about another user is inappropriate. There was no reason to say that about another user of this site.

 

[Desk trauma]

Noah and his family enduring all those years with such evil around them that it required the drastic measures taken to clean it up---and the last days will be as those days.

Ah a variation on the apologists argument that the real victims of the genocides committed in the bible were the men ordered to carry them out.

 

[mmksparbud]

I've heard of no such thing and have no idea what you ware talking about.

 

[mmksparbud]

I said making such accusations about another user is inappropriate. There was no reason to say that about another user of this site.

I make no apology for that statement. It is consistent with his stated sentiments---so you defend his portrayal of God? That God is the evil one in all this is not the problem, but that I have said something that seems to fit in with his sentiments is?? Whatever---it was not an insult, it was not flaming--he can defend himself, I'm sure. Thanks for your input.

 

[Desk trauma]

I've heard of no such thing and have no idea what you ware talking about.

It was an argument made by William Lane Craig. Your concern for Noah and his kin reminded me of his feeling bad for the soldiers slaughtering children.

 

[mmksparbud]

And who did Noah slaughter??

 

[Desk trauma]

And who did Noah slaughter??

I was reminded of it because of your concern for the only people who made it out of the story alive rather then the ones consigned to drown.

 

[Glass*Soul]

God's plan didn't include room for the workers inside the ark.

I have a question regarding the workers. If the imagination of the thoughts of their hearts was only evil continually, how could they conduct themselves properly in order to be usable workers? Doesn't one have to occasionally have a constructive thought in order to function? I mean, put a hammer in someone's hands and all they can think of continually is the evil they can do with it, how are you going to get them to pound nails rather than one another? Unless they're happily constructing clever ways to sabotage the project.

 

[TheBear]

........

 

[mmksparbud]

I have a question regarding the workers. If the imagination of the thoughts of their hearts was only evil continually, how could they conduct themselves properly in order to be usable workers? Doesn't one have to occasionally have a constructive thought in order to function? I mean, put a hammer in someone's hands and all they can think of continually is the evil they can do with it, how are you going to get them to pound nails rather than one another? Unless they're happily constructing clever ways to sabotage the project.

Excuse me?! And how many serial killers maintained their jobs?? How many severe alcoholics maintain their jobs?--And again--there is no indication that Noah needed anyone other than his own family to help him. I was around the same hospital where a nurse had worked for a awhile---and killed several patients. Hitler ran a country---steady job till the end.

 

[TheBear]

Wow!! What a complete lack of comprehension of who God is!!

You're veering off my point, but I'll entertain your point for a moment. After that, we'll get right back to my point.

Either no one knows the mind of god, or everyone knows. You can't have it both ways. Since, by an accepted definition, God is infinite and we are finite, I'm gonna guess the former. But, some may say - "We got the scripture that gives us an understanding of God.". If the message is so clear, concise, and with no ambiguities or vague areas, (like one would expect from an all powerful deity who wanted to get his message across to everyone), we wouldn't have 14,000 or more differing denominations, reading the same message and coming up with all kinds of differing interpretations. And I'm only counting those who are sincere in their faith and learning.

Yes--He only saved 8 people--Why? Their every thought was violence, and evil
(Gen 6:5) And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

This infinite and all powerful god, (who is not puny, according to some), wasn't able to change their hearts in an instant, like he did to Saul/Paul, who was touring the land and killing Christians at the time of divine intervention. (BTW What happened to Saul's free will? .... but that's another topic altogether) Instead of that, your god chooses a slow and tortuous death to every human being and animal on the planet. In any other context, how would this not be considered cruel and unusual punishment? How would it not be considered evil?

 

[mmksparbud]

You're veering off my point, but I'll entertain your point for a moment. After that, we'll get right back to my point.

Either no one knows the mind of god, or everyone knows. You can't have it both ways. Since, by an accepted definition, God is infinite and we are finite, I'm gonna guess the former. But, some may say - "We got the scripture that gives us an understanding of God.". If the message is so clear, concise, and with no ambiguities or vague areas, (like one would expect from an all powerful deity who wanted to get his message across to everyone), we wouldn't have 14,000 or more differing denominations, reading the same message and coming up with all kinds of differing interpretations. And I'm only counting those who are sincere in their faith and learning.



This infinite and all powerful god, (who is not puny, according to some), wasn't able to change their hearts in an instant, like he did to Saul/Paul, who was touring the land and killing Christians at the time of divine intervention. (BTW What happened to Saul's free will? .... but that's another topic altogether) Instead of that, your god chooses a slow and tortuous death to every human being and animal on the planet. In any other context, how would this not be considered cruel and unusual punishment? How would it not be considered evil?

We can know the character of God---His mind is far beyond our comprehension. How can a flea understand the mind of a human??
Saul wasn't forced into changing. He saw the error of his ways and changed course. He could have chosen to remain as he was.
And what makes you think that those people were not given every opportunity to choose differently, also??

(Jud 1:14) And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
(Jud 1:15) To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

God always warns, and it wasn't a spur of the moment thing--Enoch lived a long time and he preached and warned. Unfortunately---God doesn't force you to choose the right way. He may, at times, alter circumstances and force you to think--like Jonah in the whale--but Jonah could still have been defiant and not done what was asked.

(Eze 33:11) Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Slow and torturous death??---Don't know about that- --When these tsunamis hit, it's over pretty quickly.
Bottom line is what we have chosen to believe about God's character. I believe Him to be just, long suffering, loving, and does everything He can in order for us to choose Him. If you wish Him to be a bad tempered, vindictive, mean child
--it's your choice. You can look at the story of Noah and think what you do, or see it as He tried everything and warned and pleaded and they were so evil He had to destroy them. Why He choose water I can't say. The final end will be by fire. As for having empathy for Noah when he had to endure the evil of that generation--you ever been around a real mean and evil person??---I have, I was raised by one. They are having a ball inflicting misery on others. What would have been so wonderful about God allowing such a world to keep on living in such an evil way?? Raising their children to be as evil as themselves?? How is that a good thing?? You would have condemned Him for that ad you condemn Him for destroying them.

 

[TheBear]

We can know the character of God

Your god is a jealous god. He said so himself, according to the bible. Your god is vindictive. He said so himself, according to the bible.

You never answered my question. In any other context, how would this not be considered cruel and unusual punishment? How would it not be considered evil?

Slow and torturous death??

Indeed.

It's not like instantaneous death the moment water touches them. No. There's panic, terror and struggling for some time before death. (that includes many other animals, too, not just humans) Are religious people that unattached from human and animal suffering that they don't even care? Has their self-righteousness calloused them to the point of antisocial apathy towards others?

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Just a couple of points.

Drowning is a great way to die. Quick and relatively painless (no blood or mangled bodies), so say drowning victims who were later revived. Although there would be some panic beforehand. They were like the swine that ran off the cliff and drowned in Jesus' day. Demon possessed people.

The people were evil and Noah knew it. He probably allowed them to cheat him on their time, steal materials from the worksite, laugh at the whole project (if they actually knew what they were building), etc. But they had to do good work or be fired.

Noah and company had to do all they could do, and God blessed their efforts. God expects us to have skin in the game.

God killing those people is no more cruel or vindictive than the execution by us of a murderer like Dylann Roof.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

.

 

[mmksparbud]

Your god is a jealous god. He said so himself, according to the bible. Your god is vindictive. He said so himself, according to the bible.

You never answered my question. In any other context, how would this not be considered cruel and unusual punishment? How would it not be considered evil?



Indeed.

It's not like instantaneous death the moment water touches them. No. There's panic, terror and struggling for some time before death. (that includes many other animals, too, not just humans) Are religious people that unattached from human and animal suffering that they don't even care? Has their self-righteousness calloused them to the point of antisocial apathy towards others?

What I am appalled by is evil, cruelty--which these people were. You do not seem to indicate any compassion for the horrors they inflicted, only what was inflicted on them. Why is that? You seem to want to have evil rewarded and justice is not a part of your vocabulary. Is this an indication of atheisms lack of compassion for the suffering of the victims of evil sociopaths?? Your compassion is given to those who commit evil, but not to those who demand justice for that evil---how come? Has the overwhelming reign of sin so hardened the hearts that evil is considered as nothing now and justice itself is now evil?? Cruel and unusual punishment would have been to let that kind of evil go unpunished. In what other context is that kind of evil ok to allow to continue?
And you have not answered my questions.