Beware of demons.

[Steve Petersen]

Beware of things that don't exist? Yeah, I will be careful.

 

[Hillsage]

This was supposed to have been an EDIT in my last post

P.S. now things really are getting 'distracted'...for me...this was odd.

 

[shelley1952]

Christ said that 'some take fasting and prayer'. Are there perhaps others that take additional effort? Fasting, prayer and some other formula to 'cast them out'? Since we cannot answer this, I propose that it would indeed require a 'special calling' for at least those demons that take MORE to cast out than we are aware of.

you make the mistake of many, Jesus was not saying the demon was too strong so for the stronger devils you have to fast and pray, didnt He just say in verse 20 it was because of their unbelief that the demon didnt come out, he didnt say it was because it was an extra strong demon. It was their unbelief, they couldnt cast it out because of their unbelief. You fast and pray to get rid of your unbelief. You have caught on to a lot of things, you can this too, read the whole story over again not just part of the story, the whole thing.

Mark 19. Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?

20. And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
21. Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

It would obviously take some 'special calling' in order to deal with demons. Christ empowered His disciples and apostles specifically in this area.

Again if you notice all it says... these signs shall follow those that have believed....who ??? those that have believed... someone with a special calling ?? A newborn babe in Christ can cast out demons if only they were taught to believe that.
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow those that have believed: in my name they shall cast out demons; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 they shall take up serpents; and if they should drink any deadly thing it shall not injure them; they shall lay hands upon the infirm, and they shall be well.

I sure hope you dont crack under pressure. Peace !

 

[shelley1952]

You never read that he didn't, either...did you? Not that it really makes any difference to me or my POV. But the fact that He is the "Father of the spirits" and the the "God of the spirits of all flesh" also, is a more important point to me regarding any difference we may have with the animals....I think, but can't really say 'I know'.

Hebrews 12:9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers to discipline us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live?

NUM 16:22 And they fell on their faces, and said, "O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be angry with all the congregation?"

Personally, I go another whole direction on all 'this dicotomy/tricotomy theology', but suffice it to say; scripture doesn't declare 'spirit plus dust became soul'.....they became a "living soul". Not distinguishing 'that' living point from that of a 'dying soul', as the result of sin, is simply a view not believed by most. Adam and Eve became 'living souls' because from the day they were created/formed they 'walked with God in the Spirit' of the day/age they lived in. And they did so UNTIL the day they sinned in the flesh.

Genesis 3:8 And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool/RUWACH/SPIRIT of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.

Having sinned, they no longer walked with God in SPIRIT. And sin is what made them go from being 'living souls' to 'corrupted dying souls'.

GAL 6:7 Be not led astray; God is not mocked; for what a man may sow - that also he shall reap, 8 because he who is sowing to his own flesh, of the flesh shall reap corruption; and he who is sowing to the Spirit, of the Spirit shall reap life age-during;


Absolutely agree with every bit of this though.

I don't expect you to agree with what I've just shared, but I'm just 'briefly' explaining 'where/why' I believe like I do.

EDIT; A couple minutes ago, I felt like I was impressed to point out that this really is off topic. An impression which first led me think your quote from me, didn't even come from this thread. So I went back looking and found it was my first post. So, then I thought, I probably said way more here than I should have...and it's really way off topic...which may lead to distraction.

Well I was wondering what part of that possible had to do with what I was talking about then got on down to the bottom, but hey, all is fine.

 

[Hillsage]

It is my belief that demons, evil spirits, unclean spirits, etc,,,,,,,,,,,are all the same thing. Now there may be different levels of power or 'place' in the scheme of things so far as demons are concerned. But demons, in my opinion, are evil spirits.

There are levels, according to scripture, the speaking "strong man" in the demoniac had a name which was "My name is Legion for we are many"

Matthew 12:45 Then he goes and brings with him seven other spirits more evil than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first. So shall it be also with this evil generation."

Luke 11:15 But some of them said, "He casts out demons by Beelzebul, the prince of demons";

 

[Achilles6129]

Beware of things that don't exist? Yeah, I will be careful.

So the Bible isn't correct when it talks about demons?

 

[Achilles6129]

Another thing I'd like to add, just as a general statement pertaining to this thread: the Synoptics talk about demons an awful lot. They aren't really spoken of much outside of the Synoptics, which I find to be interesting. Anyone know why that would be?

 

[Steve Petersen]

So the Bible isn't correct when it talks about demons?

No. It reflects the culture of the period, which may have NOTHING to do with reality.

 

[Achilles6129]

No. It reflects the culture of the period, which may have NOTHING to do with reality.

Interesting take. I guess that the Bible isn't trustworthy, then.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Interesting take. I guess that the Bible isn't trustworthy, then.

Is this the part of the conversation where someone hits the Report button?

 

[Achilles6129]

Is this the part of the conversation where someone hits the Report button?

No. I don't hit report buttons. You're entitled to your opinion.

 

[Hillsage]

I want to 'jump in here' with this. You and I have disagreed on many matters in the past. I find it not only amusing but kind of amazing that on this issue we are in 'agreement' when so many others seem to insist upon denial or 'alteration' of the 'facts'.

Yes, you and I have disagreed a lot, but then 'many' and I have also disagreed. That's just my 'lot in Christian life' I guess.

And, I'm going to point out that, you and I disagreed earlier with what you're talking about with sister SHELLY now. I kind of presented 'her position' to you, back in post #181. But you didn't mention disagreement then. Did you miss my 'opinion' back then?

I have gathered that you agree 100 percent that demons exist. That in an of itself is pretty incredible now days for 'most' that claim to believe in the Bible have found the means to deny rather than accept.

Nope, I don't agree 100%............... I agree 110%.
'Most' lead such shallow 'biblical lives' spiritually speaking IMO, that demons don't even need to manifest supernaturally in ways such as they've never seen/heard/felt. Therefore, even demonic supernatural work, in the lives of ALL people, is actually considered 'natural' and normal. A reality which is unfortunately also true for the 'big' nominal church. I'll guarantee you this though, if a demon ever does supernaturally manifest to them in the ways such I've heard and seen and felt, 'their theology' will change.

I have found your offerings on this issue quite inspirational. For usually when this topic is broached, the overwhelming majority insist upon denial. So finding just ONE person that actually seems to 'get it' offers 'hope'. Hope that the message may indeed be able to be 'spread'. And I firmly believe that we 'all' need to be aware. And it seems most 'churches' are completely ignoring the issue.

Thank you for that 'offerings' compliment Imagican, as you know I get very few compliments here, so I really do appreciate it. But stick around and I'm sure I'll have an opinion contrary to yours, again.

 

[toLiJC]

I have already discussed my understanding of 'mental disorders' mostly being 'demon' inspired. Not going to go back and talk about it 'again'.

But I will point out that there are more people on 'mental medications' today than any time in history. We are a 'people' of 'mental disorders' today. Not going to quote statistics. Anyone that has an interest, a true interest, already knows what I'm talking about and that what I speak concerning 'numbers' is truth.

But what I want to focus on in this thread is: what about those that 'think' they are mentally competent but in truth are just 'hiding' their mental issues? Not everyone with mental issues are on medication. Not all with mental issues have sought any sort of 'help' from the medical community. So that means that there are 'many' with mental issues no one but themselves and those closest to them are aware of.

To me, it is utterly apparent that during the time of Christ, those possessed of 'evil spirits' or 'demons' were considered 'insane'. The man who's son fell into fire and water would certainly be considered 'insane' by today's standards of diagnosis. Yet the Bible tells us that the child was possessed of 'evil spirits'.

Legion was considered 'insane' as well. Yet we see that after Christ 'cast out the demons', they were seen talking together and Legion was by all accounts, perfectly 'normal'.

So what are 'mental disorders'? Are they really 'medical conditions' or merely foreign influence of one's 'mind'?

Over and over we hear the stories of the mother who says she was 'told by God' to kill her children in order to 'save them'. Not 'one' story. MANY. The legal system and medical community call these people 'delusional' and 'mentally ill'.

I won't deny the diagnosis. But the medical community continually insists that the 'mental disorders' suffered by these people are simply problems with their 'brains'. Is this 'really' the proper diagnosis?

Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, (or syndrome), as of late, has been extensively studied. The information obtained is 'showing' that those that suffer from this disorder have literal 'brain disorders'. That what they were exposed to due to the stress and shock they experienced have literally 'altered' their brains. Their brains when compared to each other show similar patterns of activity that do not exist in others who do not suffer from the syndrome.

This means that we can 'experience' things that can literally 'alter' the way our brains work. Not merely a 'mental condition', but a literal 'altering of the functioning of one's brain'.

Think about this: A person can simply 'experience' intense emotions and that experience has the potential to actually 'alter' the way their brain functions.

What if? What if demons, once one allows them to make a 'place' in their minds and hearts, have the potential, over time, to DO this very thing: Like PTSS, they can literally cause the 'altering' of one's 'brain'? As one 'relinquishes' their own control of their mind, hands it over to a 'demon or demons', those demons have the potential to actually 'alter' their minds and hearts?

We continually hear the stories of those that commit the most atrocious crimes that are almost identical. They start with, "I don't know what happened. It's like I snapped and 'lost control'. Or, 'It was like I was 'outside' my body and I was watching myself pull the trigger'.

Or course, law enforcement would shudder at the mere 'thought' that they may be telling the 'truth'. For if they are ''telling the truth'', they would be considered 'not responsible' for their own behavior. This could cause some major problems in attempting to 'try' them. For how does one find someone 'guilty' of something they have 'no control over'?

The medical community would NEVER consider what I'm offering for there is 'no money' in treating someone with 'demons' instead of insisting that their 'mental issues' are merely a matter of chemistry. Yet no amount of medicine ever 'cures' anyone. The medication merely interrupts electrical signals basically 'cutting off' certain brain functions. Once one 'stops' taking their medication, we often witness that their problems are worse than when they started taking medication.

So what if. What if 'demons' are able to literally alter 'brain chemistry' or 'brain function'? When we witness people that we call 'insane', they are merely under the influence of demons and demons that have the capacity, over time, to literally alter the functioning of the host's brain? Their 'minds' or their 'hearts'?

The Bible tells us that we need to remain continuously on guard against the 'wiles of the Devil'. I find it safe to assume that demons, being minions of the Devil, are merely one functioning 'part' of the 'wiles of the Devil'. That Satan 'uses' his demons to influence those that 'allow' them the opportunity.

And by 'allowing', it means that is through a lack of vigilance that one becomes 'infected', (possessed), by 'evil spirits', (demons), Only when one 'lets down their guard' is it possible to be 'possessed'. But once possessed, one 'must do' certain 'things' in order to rid themselves of these parasites. They 'don't just go away' of their own choice. Not until they have accomplished what they 'came for'. And that is the destruction of the 'host's soul'.

For we are warned that we need not fear those capable of taking our physical lives, but that which is able to destroy our very SOULS. So there is no doubt that our 'souls can be destroyed'. The Bible says so.

And how is one's soul destroyed? By doing something that they cannot forgive themselves for. For we are forgiven as we are able to forgive. And if one is incapable of forgiving, they they cannot be forgiven. That too is what the Bible says.

Many will disagree due to the 'teachings of their churches'. But the Bible states that if you DO NOT FORGIVE, you WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN. The most important part of the plan of Salvation is 'forgiveness'. You cannot practice true love without forgiveness. And you cannot receive Salvation without being able to 'love God and your neighbor'. Christ Himself stated that the 'most important commandment' is to 'love God' and the second is 'love your neighbor'. And He also stated that to 'love God' is to follow His commandments'. The most important 'act' of faith is 'love'. That means that 'saying' you believe means 'nothing'. it's what you DO that matters. What you 'do' that produces the 'fruit' of your faith. Saying you are a believer? Even Satan is a believer in Christ. He hates Him. The demons shudder at His name. Following is the ONLY fruit of the 'Spirit'. It's not what you 'say', that makes you a follower of God through Christ, it's what you "DO".

With these things in mind, what happens when one 'lets down their guard' that they have been instructed to 'keep up at all times'? They basically leave the front door WIDE open. Not only 'unlatched' or 'unlocked', but WIDE OPEN. May as well verbally 'invite them in'. And once in, they are like any other parasite: awful hard to get rid of. For they obviously NEED a host in order to 'survive' or to be 'satisfied' with their very existence.

I know, crazy right? Hmmmm...........If you call accepting what the Bible offers 'crazy'? Then indeed. According to the 'world around us'. Absolutely. But according to the Bible, nothing I have offered contradicts what it offers. In fact, what I have offered is much more Biblical than the idea that people are 'born crazy'.

And think about this: If demons are very difficult to get rid of, what happens if one doesn't even recognize their own demons? Or if society in general is not 'taught' to recognize them? But instead, is encouraged to believe something entirely 'different' than the 'truth'? Oh my. See where this is heading? How would one be 'able' to know what I'm offering if everything that exists in this world is PUSHING to hide it? Influencing all but God's very elect to ignore the 'truth' and follow that which is 'false'.?

Think about this too: Why are there 'so many different denominations'? What is the "INFLUENCE"? Certainly it isn't God influencing men to divide themselves into 'different denominations'. Especially when we can clearly see that many of these denominations are completely and utterly contrary to the 'truth'.

I'm going to let this be digested before continuing any furthers. And I'm sure I've offered enough to keep the skeptics coming for days. LOL.

Blessings,

MEC

if the condition of any human prevents them from leading/having a normal/good life, then it is certain that person is affected or possessed by some spirit(s) of the "darkness"

Blessings

 

[Hillsage]

if the condition of any human prevents them from leading/having a normal/good life, then it is certain that person is affected or possessed by some spirit(s) of the "darkness"

Blessings

I believe your position is the 'bar ditch' opposite of those who don't believe in demons at all. For example if I were physically ill because my wife was slipping antifreeze into things....just exactly what demon would you cast out of me, so I might recover?

And if my brain was not having leading a "normal/good life" because I had unforgiveness toward a brother/sister would you attempt deliverance upon me, or would you possibly exhort my soul with the scripture which says If I don't forgive neither will God forgive me and I'll suffer by loosing "life and life abundant" here and now because of that unforgiveness?

You see we are spirit/soul/body and illness to the body can come from 'evil spirits' or from 'stinking thinking/soul' or from something 'physically missing or added', like vitamins/antifreeze. That's why we need the Spirit of God to discern AND to give us the words to speak in situations. Even as Jesus did when scripture says he 'only did those things He SAW the Father doing, and spoke only those words he HEARD the Father speaking.

 

[toLiJC]

I believe your position is the 'bar ditch' opposite of those who don't believe in demons at all. For example if I were physically ill because my wife was slipping antifreeze into things....just exactly what demon would you cast out of me, so I might recover?

for example i would cast the so-called "death", which is the spirit of deterioration as a whole, the "death" is that spirit of the "darkness" which causes there to be different kinds of vulnerability in humans, e.g. vulnerability to burns, vulnerability to infections, vulnerability to contamination, vulnerability to poisoning, vulnerability to radiation, vulnerability to unfavorable aging, vulnerability to physical dying, vulnerability to possession by evil spirits, vulnerability to being affected with evilness, etc.

however, i said affected, not only possessed, and a man may, God forbid, be unfavorably affected through another person, including physically

And if my brain was not having leading a "normal/good life" because I had unforgiveness toward a brother/sister would you attempt deliverance upon me, or would you possibly exhort my soul with the scripture which says If I don't forgive neither will God forgive me and I'll suffer by loosing "life and life abundant" here and now because of that unforgiveness?

every kind of evilness is caused by devilish spirit(s), including the unforgiveness, so if any person is evil/unrighteous in any way, then it is certain that person is affected or possessed by evil spirit(s)

You see we are spirit/soul/body and illness to the body can come from 'evil spirits' or from 'stinking thinking/soul' or from something 'physically missing or added', like vitamins/antifreeze. That's why we need the Spirit of God to discern AND to give us the words to speak in situations. Even as Jesus did when scripture says he 'only did those things He SAW the Father doing, and spoke only those words he HEARD the Father speaking.

the primordial/primary/root cause of all evils is the unsouled manifestation of the "darkness", and it manifests into the world in the form of devilish spirits such as satan, the "beast", the "death", the other "death" i.e. the "hell", the "devils", etc., and there is no evil whose root is not the manifestation of the "darkness"

Blessings

 

[ToBeLoved]

for example i would cast the so-called "death", which is the spirit of deterioration as a whole, the "death" is that spirit of the "darkness" which causes there to be different kinds of vulnerability in humans, e.g. vulnerability to burns, vulnerability to infections, vulnerability to contamination, vulnerability to poisoning, vulnerability to radiation, vulnerability to unfavorable aging, vulnerability to physical dying, vulnerability to possession by evil spirits, vulnerability to being affected with evilness, etc.

What is your scriptural reference for this belief?

ALL people are vulnerable to poisons, infections, ect. Do you understand the body and the way it functions?

 

[toLiJC]

What is your scriptural reference for this belief?

ALL people are vulnerable to poisons, infections, ect. Do you understand the body and the way it functions?

not all:

Daniel 3:19-25 "Nebuchadnezzar was filled with wrath, and his facial expression was altered toward Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego. He answered by giving orders to heat the furnace seven times more than it was usually heated. He commanded certain valiant warriors who were in his army to tie up Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego in order to cast them into the furnace of blazing fire. Then these men were tied up in their trousers, their coats, their caps and their other clothes, and were cast into the midst of the furnace of blazing fire. For this reason, because the king’s command was urgent and the furnace had been made extremely hot, the flame of the fire slew those men who carried up Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego. But these three men, Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego, fell into the midst of the furnace of blazing fire still tied up. Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astounded and stood up in haste; he said to his high officials, “Was it not three men we cast bound into the midst of the fire?” They replied to the king, “Certainly, O king.” He said, “Look! I see four men loosed and walking about in the midst of the fire without harm, and the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the gods!”",

Mark 16:17-18 "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

in the beginning God made the human perfectly durable, and they were invulnerable to any "sting" of the "death", neither fire, nor any poison, nor acid, nor radiation, nor any hit/shock/impact, nor any disease could unfavorably/deadly affect/hurt the human in the beginning, because they were not affected by the spirit of deterioration called "death", it is a spirit that causes matters and tissues to lose their strength/durability and to become vulnerable to many possible kinds of detriment/affliction, the "death" is the spirit that causes deterioration such as hellish: unhappiness, sadness, migraine, pain, torment, blackout(loss of consciousness), depression, dizziness, stupidity, idiocy, malfunction, disability, etc.

Blessings

 

[Hillsage]

I long for it and hopefully if this flesh holds out long enough, I will one day be able to 'get back'.

If it is God's will, His grace will empower it to be.

Your last few posts explain why I always say; 'I'd rather talk it wrong and walk it right, than talk it right and walk it wrong.' At the judgment seat of Christ, our judgment will not be based on what we knew, but who we knew, and how much we acted like Him.

 

[Dave-W]

All Christian Churches stand on flimsy foundations, then.

Since about ad 1500, God has been restoring many of the foundations. Part of that generated the reformation resulting in protestant churches being generated because Rome would not embrace what God was trying to restore.

 

[Dave-W]

Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.

You cannot base a doctrine on any english translation. The greek word is better rendered "demonized."