Best evidence for paedobaptism

[SeventhValley]

you are kinda there. Hades and Sheol were just the Greek and Semetic names for the place of the dead. Abraham's bosom is still in Sheol, and it is NOT paradise because paradise was closed before the death of Christ. and theosis is never complete, since God is eternal.

Ok Thanks So I pretty much had it.
Not sure why Greg is so grumpy today.

Needs a Snickers maybe.

This is a tangent that Greg got on.

I am wondering why a godparent or parent would make a statement for someone who cannot yet make a promise to God which is what St.Peter said is what matters. I can promise God that my kids will be faithful but they might not despite my best efforts. So it still seems to me that infant baptism is more for the parent with the kid maybe making good on the promise. Kind of like how funerals are for the living.

I still agree with it though overall.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I am wondering why a godparent or parent would make a statement for someone who cannot yet make a promise to God which is what St.Peter said is what matters. I can promise God that my kids will be faithful but they might not despite my best efforts. So it still seems to me that infant baptism is more for the parent with the kid maybe making good on the promise. Kind of like how funerals are for the living.

no because baptism is about throwing off the old man and putting on Christ. the vow of the Godparents for the baby is a part of that (because, as Godparents it is their duty to help the parents and clergy in the spiritual growth of this child), but the baptism is to be clothed in Christ.

 

[gzt]

Adults have godparents, too, it's not just they're making a promise for somebody else who is unable to.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Yeah, unfortunately! I wish there was an Orthodox canon allowing me to trade mine in!! 😳😳😳

Adults have godparents, too.....

 

[SeventhValley]

How can you be clothed in Christ before you know Christ?

 

[SeventhValley]

Yeah, unfortunately! I wish there was an Orthodox canon allowing me to trade mine in!! ������

I guess sometimes babies are born to crappy parents.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Yeah, unfortunately! I wish there was an Orthodox canon allowing me to trade mine in!! 😳😳😳

hahaha, there kinda is. if he is not doing the job, find another Orthodox person who can guide you in the faith. I still might be close to my Godfather and my first priest, but they are not the only ones who give me spiritual guidance.

 

[ArmyMatt]

How can you be clothed in Christ before you know Christ?

the same way medicine can heal a sick baby before the baby knows how it works.

 

[SeventhValley]

the same way medicine can heal a sick baby before the baby knows how it works.

But how dose that square with St.Peter saying it is not the water but the promise?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Perhaps Orthodoxy has a five-year return policy on jerkwad Deacon godfathers?

hahaha, there kinda is. if he is not doing the job, find another Orthodox person who can guide you in the faith. I still might be close to my Godfather and my first priest, but they are not the only ones who give me spiritual guidance.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Baptism and Chrismation and receiving the Eucharist have made a difference in my spiritual life.

If you believe the sacraments are effective, and they are available to your beloved child, why would you want to withhold them from the child?

As someone said about medicine working without the person understanding how it works. But if the question in the OP is "why would you provide this to your child?" ... I would say, why wouldn't you?

It's not a matter of "purchasing salvation" ... God judges, as always, and we don't presume to do so. But it is a matter of providing spiritual care to a child you are responsible for.

 

[twob4me]

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[ArmyMatt]

Perhaps Orthodoxy has a five-year return policy on jerkwad Deacon godfathers?

well, I know many who have nuns or monks on speed dial because they need some guidance that they are not getting. if the person who is your Godparent is not doing the job, it does not mean that you cannot look for someone who can give you the guidance you need.

and I know he has hurt you dude, but you really should not call the deacon names.

continued prayers for you! hang in there

 

[ArmyMatt]

But how dose that square with St.Peter saying it is not the water but the promise?

St Peter never says that I don't think. he uses Noah account as a prototype, but even there it was water WITH a promise.