Believe the Bible - or mock the Bible - which do you choose?

[BobRyan]

There is quite a collection of verses here.

from your link - we have this --

1. He believed the Old Testament was historical fact. This is very clear, even though from the Creation (cf. Genesis 2:24 and Matthew 19:4, 5) onward, much of what He believed has long been under fire by critics, as being mere fiction. Some examples of historical facts:
   • Luke 11:51—Abel was a real individual
   • Matthew 24:37–39—Noah and the flood (Luke 17:26, 27)
   • John 8:56–58—Abraham
   • Matthew 10:15; Luke 10:12)—Sodom and Gomorrah
   • Luke 17:28–32—Lot (and wife!)
   • Matthew 8:11—Isaac and Jacob (Luke 13:28)
   • John 6:31, 49, 58—Manna
   • John 3:14—Serpent
   • Matthew 12:39–41—Jonah (vs. 42—Sheba)
   • Matthew 24:15—Daniel and Isaiah
2. He believed the books were written by the men whose names they bear:
   • Moses wrote the Pentateuch (Torah): Matthew 19:7, 8; Mark 7:10, 12:26 (“Book of Moses”—the Torah); Luke 5:14; 16:29,31; 24:27, 44 (“Christ’s Canon”); John 1:17; 5:45, 46; 7:19; (“The Law [Torah] was given by Moses; Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ.”)5
   • Isaiah wrote “both” Isaiah’s: Mark 7:6–13; John 12:37–41 [Ed. note: Liberals claim that Isaiah 40-66 was composed after the fall of Jerusalem by another writer they call “Deutero-Isaiah”. The only real “reason” for their claim is that a straightforward dating would mean that predictive prophecy was possible, and liberals have decreed a priori that knowledge of the future is impossible (like miracles in general). Thus these portions must have been written after the events. However, there is nothing in the text itself to hint of a different author. See The Unity of Isaiah. In fact, even the Dead Sea Isaiah Scroll was a seamless unity. But as Dr Livingston said, since Jesus affirmed the unity of Isaiah, the deutero-Isaiah theory is just not an option for anyone calling himself a follower of Christ.]
   • Jonah wrote Jonah: Matthew 12:39–41
   • Daniel wrote Daniel: Matthew 24:15
3. He believed the Old Testament was spoken by God Himself, or written by the Holy Spirit’s inspiration, even though the pen was held by men: Matthew 19:4, 5; 22:31, 32, 43; Mark 12:26; Luke 20:37.

In fact so also do the other NT writers -- referring to OT text as "The Holy Spirit says..." in places like Hebrews 3.

Jesus Himself calling the OT text "The Word of God" in Mark 7:6-13

Ignoring every single detail in the information posted ... we could get to this

But the most that any of it will show is that Jesus likely believed that the scriptures contained stories about real people. .

 

[KWCrazy]

But the most that any of it will show is that Jesus likely believed that the scriptures contained stories about real people. None of those passage reveal any ideas He may have had about genre determination.

Do you think the Son of God was deceived, or do you think the minds of man have been clouded?
Somehow as man has learned more about how things function in nature he has forgotten that the Creator is Lord over nature, and natural laws bow to His wishes.

 

[KWCrazy]

Ignoring every single detail in the information posted ... we could get to this

The sad thing is that people believe they know more than Jesus did.
Jesus said that no living person had ever seen the face of God, but Adam and Lot walked and spoke with the Lord. How is that possible? I believe they were speaking with Jesus long before He came to be born from Mary.

 

[Colter]

Because "Science knows there is no God - and if there were a God he could not create the world in 7 days, or bring about a world wide flood, or the virgin birth, or the resurrection of Christ, or the ascension of Christ into heaven"???

Is that supposed to even be believable on a Christian board???



Not even remotely. Rather I make the case that your argument is not reasonable. You have to make an argument that has a basis for acceptance.

A scientist can be a disciple of Jesus, or not-- can have faith in God or not and can pursue the facts of the material world.


But none of us expect a scientist to create the world in 7 days, or to cause the world wide flood -or even to video tape the world wide flood, or to cause the virgin birth, or to cause or video tape Christ's resurrection or His ascension into heaven.

The point remains.



Well as it turns out - you were not there for that event.

God was.

And He says "SIX DAYS you shall labor -- 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it." Ex 20:8-11.

So then we have the Word of God in Genesis 1-2:3 and Ex 20:8-11 vs "just making stuff up" as you provide for us.



On the contrary - you are telling stories.

The Bible is the "Word of God".

2 Peter 3
3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.



An interesting "story" you just made up - certainly pleasing to a great many atheists and also Urantia believers in that tiny little Urantia religion.

But Christians prefer the Bible.

2 Peter 1
19 So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. 20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

Peter was just expressing his belief in Genesis, but that doesn't mean God wrote it or that it's factual. Billions of people in the world earnestly believe things that are not really true.

 

[Colter]

Does Urantua claim there is no hell ?

The UB explains that there is either life or death. Those who completely reject Gods plan for eternal life simply do not awake from the sleep of mortal death. They are destroyed, it is as if they never existed.

 

[BobRyan]

The sad thing is that people believe they know more than Jesus did.
Jesus said that no living person had ever seen the face of God, but Adam and Lot walked and spoke with the Lord. How is that possible? I believe they were speaking with Jesus long before He came to be born from Mary.

In fact Hebrews 8:6-10 tells us that it is Christ speaking at Sinai.

And Hebrews 11 says that Moses "considered the sufferings of CHRIST greater riches than the treasures in Egypt"

 

[BobRyan]

The UB explains that there is either life or death. Those who completely reject Gods plan for eternal life simply do not awake from the sleep of mortal death. They are destroyed, it is as if they never existed.

And by contrast - the Bible teaches in Rev 20 that there will be a resurrection of the wicked at the end of the 1000 years and they are to be cast alive into the lake of fire - to suffer the second death torment of fire and brimstone.

 

[BobRyan]

The men who wrote the Bible gathered together many spiritual truths and distorted legends available to them for their narratives. Science simply discredits the untrue parts.

Because "Science knows there is no God - and if there were a God he could not create the world in 7 days, or bring about a world wide flood, or the virgin birth, or the resurrection of Christ, or the ascension of Christ into heaven"???

Is that supposed to even be believable on a Christian board???

Again, you project extreme prejudice on all scientist.

Not even remotely. Rather I make the case that your argument is not reasonable. You have to make an argument that has a basis for acceptance.

A scientist can be a disciple of Jesus, or not-- can have faith in God or not and can pursue the facts of the material world.


But none of us expect a scientist to create the world in 7 days, or to cause the world wide flood -or even to video tape the world wide flood, or to cause the virgin birth, or to cause or video tape Christ's resurrection or His ascension into heaven.

The point remains.

That's because the world wasn't created in 7 days

Well as it turns out - you were not there for that event.

God was.

And He says "SIX DAYS you shall labor -- 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it." Ex 20:8-11.

So then we have the Word of God in Genesis 1-2:3 and Ex 20:8-11 vs "just making stuff up" as you provide for us.

and there wasn't a world wide flood. Those were stories

On the contrary - you are telling stories.

The Bible is the "Word of God".

2 Peter 3
3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

written by the elite priest class for consumption by the common Israelite. Primitive man was a mythmaker.

An interesting "story" you just made up - certainly pleasing to a great many atheists and also Urantia believers in that tiny little Urantia religion.

But Christians prefer the Bible.

2 Peter 1
19 So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. 20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

Peter was just expressing his belief in Genesis, but that doesn't mean God wrote it or that it's factual.

The urantia religion not only condemns the Bible of the OT as the work of mere man - it condemns the NT as well.

=================

The NT writers claimed that not only they - but the OT writers and a great many other non-Bible writing saints - received messages directly from God.

A great many Charismatics and Pentecostals claim that they are receiving messages directly from God.

The Seventh-day Adventist Church - claims to have a prophet that lived in the 1800's and early 1900's receiving messages directly from God.

But none of them do - what the Urantia religion does - in its efforts to condemn both the OT and NT - then to go on and just "make stuff up"

 

[Speedwell]

Do you think the Son of God was deceived, or do you think the minds of man have been clouded?
Somehow as man has learned more about how things function in nature he has forgotten that the Creator is Lord over nature, and natural laws bow to His wishes.

Neither one. I am just making a point about your argument which it appears I will have to repeat:

The most that any of those passages will show is that Jesus likely believed that the scriptures contained stories about real people. None of those passage reveal any ideas He may have had about genre determination.

Creationism depends not just on whether Noah or Abraham, say, existed as real people, but on specific claims it makes about the text of the narratives which describe them. Those claims are not supported by Jesus' reported use of the texts.

 

[BobRyan]

There is quite a collection of verses here.

from your link - we have this --

1. He believed the Old Testament was historical fact. This is very clear, even though from the Creation (cf. Genesis 2:24 and Matthew 19:4, 5) onward, much of what He believed has long been under fire by critics, as being mere fiction. Some examples of historical facts:
   • Luke 11:51—Abel was a real individual
   • Matthew 24:37–39—Noah and the flood (Luke 17:26, 27)
   • John 8:56–58—Abraham
   • Matthew 10:15; Luke 10:12)—Sodom and Gomorrah
   • Luke 17:28–32—Lot (and wife!)
   • Matthew 8:11—Isaac and Jacob (Luke 13:28)
   • John 6:31, 49, 58—Manna
   • John 3:14—Serpent
   • Matthew 12:39–41—Jonah (vs. 42—Sheba)
   • Matthew 24:15—Daniel and Isaiah
2. He believed the books were written by the men whose names they bear:
   • Moses wrote the Pentateuch (Torah): Matthew 19:7, 8; Mark 7:10, 12:26 (“Book of Moses”—the Torah); Luke 5:14; 16:29,31; 24:27, 44 (“Christ’s Canon”); John 1:17; 5:45, 46; 7:19; (“The Law [Torah] was given by Moses; Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ.”)5
   • Isaiah wrote “both” Isaiah’s: Mark 7:6–13; John 12:37–41 [Ed. note: Liberals claim that Isaiah 40-66 was composed after the fall of Jerusalem by another writer they call “Deutero-Isaiah”. The only real “reason” for their claim is that a straightforward dating would mean that predictive prophecy was possible, and liberals have decreed a priori that knowledge of the future is impossible (like miracles in general). Thus these portions must have been written after the events. However, there is nothing in the text itself to hint of a different author. See The Unity of Isaiah. In fact, even the Dead Sea Isaiah Scroll was a seamless unity. But as Dr Livingston said, since Jesus affirmed the unity of Isaiah, the deutero-Isaiah theory is just not an option for anyone calling himself a follower of Christ.]
   • Jonah wrote Jonah: Matthew 12:39–41
   • Daniel wrote Daniel: Matthew 24:15
3. He believed the Old Testament was spoken by God Himself, or written by the Holy Spirit’s inspiration, even though the pen was held by men: Matthew 19:4, 5; 22:31, 32, 43; Mark 12:26; Luke 20:37.

In fact so also do the other NT writers -- referring to OT text as "The Holy Spirit says..." in places like Hebrews 3.

Jesus Himself calling the OT text "The Word of God" in Mark 7:6-13

Ignoring every single detail in the information posted ... we could get to this

But the most that any of it will show is that Jesus likely believed that the scriptures contained stories about real people. .

Neither one. I am just making a point about your argument which it appears I will have to repeat:

The most that any of those passages will show is that Jesus likely believed that the scriptures contained stories about real people. None of those passage reveal any ideas He may have had about genre determination.

Creationism depends not just on whether Noah or Abraham, say, existed as real people, but on specific claims it makes

Hence the reference to Christ's acceptance of "specific claims" in the details you are sidestepping.

 

[Speedwell]

Hence the reference to Christ's acceptance of "specific claims" in the details you are sidestepping.

I am sidestepping nothing. I am telling you that your claim that Jesus thought the OT is "historic fact" is not borne out by His use of the texts. All that may reasonably be concluded from the passages cited is that He thought the OT contained historical narrative inspired by God, which I agree with, BTW.
There are and have been many different legitimate ways to write historical narrative--for God or anyone else to choose from. The Creationist claim that there is only one legitimate form--and that a form only even attempted by humans in the last couple of centuries--and that anything else is a lie, is self-serving nonsense.
And shame on you for trying to use Jesus' words to prove it. What I wonder is why you want to.

 

[Colter]

Because "Science knows there is no God - and if there were a God he could not create the world in 7 days, or bring about a world wide flood, or the virgin birth, or the resurrection of Christ, or the ascension of Christ into heaven"???

Is that supposed to even be believable on a Christian board???



Not even remotely. Rather I make the case that your argument is not reasonable. You have to make an argument that has a basis for acceptance.

A scientist can be a disciple of Jesus, or not-- can have faith in God or not and can pursue the facts of the material world.


But none of us expect a scientist to create the world in 7 days, or to cause the world wide flood -or even to video tape the world wide flood, or to cause the virgin birth, or to cause or video tape Christ's resurrection or His ascension into heaven.

The point remains.



Well as it turns out - you were not there for that event.

God was.

And He says "SIX DAYS you shall labor -- 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it." Ex 20:8-11.

So then we have the Word of God in Genesis 1-2:3 and Ex 20:8-11 vs "just making stuff up" as you provide for us.



On the contrary - you are telling stories.

The Bible is the "Word of God".

2 Peter 3
3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.



An interesting "story" you just made up - certainly pleasing to a great many atheists and also Urantia believers in that tiny little Urantia religion.

But Christians prefer the Bible.

2 Peter 1
19 So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. 20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.



The urantia religion not only condemns the Bible of the OT as the work of mere man - it condemns the NT as well.

=================

The NT writers claimed that not only they - but the OT writers and a great many other non-Bible writing saints - received messages directly from God.

A great many Charismatics and Pentecostals claim that they are receiving messages directly from God.

The Seventh-day Adventist Church - claims to have a prophet that lived in the 1800's and early 1900's receiving messages directly from God.

But none of them do - what the Urantia religion does - in its efforts to condemn both the OT and NT - then to go on and just "make stuff up"

* Science doesn't know there is no God.

* Not all Christians believe that God writes books. Holy men with racist agendas are still holy men.

* Religious indoctrinations lead men to fear God and mistrust their own common sense leading to self doubt and low self esteem. Not all of us see ourselves as "dogs".

* Some Christians believe the Word is living, that God is a Living God, that he writes his Word on our hearts.

* The fossil record and radiometric dating disproves 7 day creation and YE dinosaurs living with humans.

* There are lots of false prophets in the world with huge religious egos who think they hear things from God, some are in mental institutions.

 

[Colter]

And by contrast - the Bible teaches in Rev 20 that there will be a resurrection of the wicked at the end of the 1000 years and they are to be cast alive into the lake of fire - to suffer the second death torment of fire and brimstone.

There was a revelation to John on Patmos but unfortunately it didn't survive intact. It was edited and redacted by apocalyptic writers after John died. There is very little of Christ in the BOR, rather a portrayal of a dark, sadistic monster God of torture and cruelty.

But it's telling that a person who see's God as putting people into hell fire would say they believe other ridiculous things out of fear rather than sincerity.

 

[Colter]

from your link - we have this --

1. He believed the Old Testament was historical fact. This is very clear, even though from the Creation (cf. Genesis 2:24 and Matthew 19:4, 5) onward, much of what He believed has long been under fire by critics, as being mere fiction. Some examples of historical facts:
   • Luke 11:51—Abel was a real individual
   • Matthew 24:37–39—Noah and the flood (Luke 17:26, 27)
   • John 8:56–58—Abraham
   • Matthew 10:15; Luke 10:12)—Sodom and Gomorrah
   • Luke 17:28–32—Lot (and wife!)
   • Matthew 8:11—Isaac and Jacob (Luke 13:28)
   • John 6:31, 49, 58—Manna
   • John 3:14—Serpent
   • Matthew 12:39–41—Jonah (vs. 42—Sheba)
   • Matthew 24:15—Daniel and Isaiah
2. He believed the books were written by the men whose names they bear:
   • Moses wrote the Pentateuch (Torah): Matthew 19:7, 8; Mark 7:10, 12:26 (“Book of Moses”—the Torah); Luke 5:14; 16:29,31; 24:27, 44 (“Christ’s Canon”); John 1:17; 5:45, 46; 7:19; (“The Law [Torah] was given by Moses; Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ.”)5
   • Isaiah wrote “both” Isaiah’s: Mark 7:6–13; John 12:37–41 [Ed. note: Liberals claim that Isaiah 40-66 was composed after the fall of Jerusalem by another writer they call “Deutero-Isaiah”. The only real “reason” for their claim is that a straightforward dating would mean that predictive prophecy was possible, and liberals have decreed a priori that knowledge of the future is impossible (like miracles in general). Thus these portions must have been written after the events. However, there is nothing in the text itself to hint of a different author. See The Unity of Isaiah. In fact, even the Dead Sea Isaiah Scroll was a seamless unity. But as Dr Livingston said, since Jesus affirmed the unity of Isaiah, the deutero-Isaiah theory is just not an option for anyone calling himself a follower of Christ.]
   • Jonah wrote Jonah: Matthew 12:39–41
   • Daniel wrote Daniel: Matthew 24:15
3. He believed the Old Testament was spoken by God Himself, or written by the Holy Spirit’s inspiration, even though the pen was held by men: Matthew 19:4, 5; 22:31, 32, 43; Mark 12:26; Luke 20:37.

In fact so also do the other NT writers -- referring to OT text as "The Holy Spirit says..." in places like Hebrews 3.

Jesus Himself calling the OT text "The Word of God" in Mark 7:6-13

Ignoring every single detail in the information posted ... we could get to this





Hence the reference to Christ's acceptance of "specific claims" in the details you are sidestepping.

Jesus made use of truths of the OT and let the untruths die on the vine. The Gods have decreed that "Human wisdom must evolve".

 

[KWCrazy]

The most that any of those passages will show is that Jesus likely believed that the scriptures contained stories about real people. None of those passage reveal any ideas He may have had about genre determination.

Perhaps you could take a quick re-read of the Gospels and see whether Jesus believe the stories were myth or reality. Jesus didn't have to BELIEVE things after He was baptised. He KNEW things. The knowledge of the Father was at His disposal. He was not deceived. He said, in Luke 17:
26 Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot—they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, 29 but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all—30 So will it be on the on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

Jesus here re-tells of the Great Flood and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah as actual historical events. It is an ABSOLUTE FABRICATION to say that the events of Genesis are not supported by Jesus teaching them. Jesus did NOT refer to the Scriptures as the collected writings of men from the fables of ancient goat herders. He said that the Bible WAS the word of God.

Matthew 15:
4 For God said, `Honor your father and mother and `Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'
(Notice that GOD SAID, not Moses wrote).
5 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, `Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,'
6 he is not to `honor his father' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition.
7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8 "`These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'

It is heresy and false teaching to claim that the events Jesus quoted were merely myths that simple minded goat herders believed. Jesus was neither. He was and is the son of God. The Scriptures are the word of God. Man cannot live on bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God. How could that be possible if there were no words from the mouth of God?

Theistic evolution is based on a REJECTION of the Scriptures. The foolish man is not the one who trusts in the word of the Lord, no matter how difficult it is to believe, the foolish man is the one who rejects the teaching of the Lord for the teaching of man.

 

[KWCrazy]

The Creationist claim that there is only one legitimate form--and that a form only even attempted by humans in the last couple of centuries--and that anything else is a lie, is self-serving nonsense.

It's a lie to say that creationism is only a couple of centuries old.
Jesus taught that the Scriptures were the inspired word of God over 2,000 years ago.
Moses wrote the Torah around 3,500 years ago.
God walked with Adam over 6,000 years ago. I presume the subject of where he came from must have arisen. So then when the story of creation was recorded by Moses it had already been handed down over many generations so that the faithful already knew much if not all of the story. Were that not the case, it would have been rejected and Moses would have been stoned as a heretic. The people, however, KNEW that Moses had spoken with God.

That is just one of a string of lies that people continue to re-tell hoping to discredit the Scriptures. The truth lies with the word of God, not the fabrications of men. T.E. only exists to try and give support to the lie of evolution and mix some truth into the lie. Man did not evolve. Man was created by God.

 

[Colter]

The gospel writers relied on eyewitnesses and hearsay. Sometimes people don't quite remember things accurately, happens all the time.

The Jews who left Judaism to follow Jesus naturally wanted their faith in Jesus to be consistent with their old way of thinking and believing.

 

[BobRyan]

The gospel writers relied on eyewitnesses and hearsay.

Not according to 2 Tim 3:16 and 2 Peter 1:19-21.

While they may have inquired from a number of sources - the text itself is the work of the Holy Spirit.

 

[BobRyan]

It's a lie to say that creationism is only a couple of centuries old.

Indeed - because Moses is a great deal older than that.

And because God is even older.

 

[BobRyan]

There is quite a collection of verses here.

from your link - we have this --

1. He believed the Old Testament was historical fact. This is very clear, even though from the Creation (cf. Genesis 2:24 and Matthew 19:4, 5) onward, much of what He believed has long been under fire by critics, as being mere fiction. Some examples of historical facts:
   • Luke 11:51—Abel was a real individual
   • Matthew 24:37–39—Noah and the flood (Luke 17:26, 27)
   • John 8:56–58—Abraham
   • Matthew 10:15; Luke 10:12)—Sodom and Gomorrah
   • Luke 17:28–32—Lot (and wife!)
   • Matthew 8:11—Isaac and Jacob (Luke 13:28)
   • John 6:31, 49, 58—Manna
   • John 3:14—Serpent
   • Matthew 12:39–41—Jonah (vs. 42—Sheba)
   • Matthew 24:15—Daniel and Isaiah
2. He believed the books were written by the men whose names they bear:
   • Moses wrote the Pentateuch (Torah): Matthew 19:7, 8; Mark 7:10, 12:26 (“Book of Moses”—the Torah); Luke 5:14; 16:29,31; 24:27, 44 (“Christ’s Canon”); John 1:17; 5:45, 46; 7:19; (“The Law [Torah] was given by Moses; Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ.”)5
   • Isaiah wrote “both” Isaiah’s: Mark 7:6–13; John 12:37–41 [Ed. note: Liberals claim that Isaiah 40-66 was composed after the fall of Jerusalem by another writer they call “Deutero-Isaiah”. The only real “reason” for their claim is that a straightforward dating would mean that predictive prophecy was possible, and liberals have decreed a priori that knowledge of the future is impossible (like miracles in general). Thus these portions must have been written after the events. However, there is nothing in the text itself to hint of a different author. See The Unity of Isaiah. In fact, even the Dead Sea Isaiah Scroll was a seamless unity. But as Dr Livingston said, since Jesus affirmed the unity of Isaiah, the deutero-Isaiah theory is just not an option for anyone calling himself a follower of Christ.]
   • Jonah wrote Jonah: Matthew 12:39–41
   • Daniel wrote Daniel: Matthew 24:15
3. He believed the Old Testament was spoken by God Himself, or written by the Holy Spirit’s inspiration, even though the pen was held by men: Matthew 19:4, 5; 22:31, 32, 43; Mark 12:26; Luke 20:37.

In fact so also do the other NT writers -- referring to OT text as "The Holy Spirit says..." in places like Hebrews 3.

Jesus Himself calling the OT text "The Word of God" in Mark 7:6-13

Ignoring every single detail in the information posted ... we could get to this

But the most that any of it will show is that Jesus likely believed that the scriptures contained stories about real people. .

Neither one. I am just making a point about your argument which it appears I will have to repeat:

The most that any of those passages will show is that Jesus likely believed that the scriptures contained stories about real people. None of those passage reveal any ideas He may have had about genre determination.

Creationism depends not just on whether Noah or Abraham, say, existed as real people, but on specific claims it makes

Hence the reference to Christ's acceptance of "specific claims" in the details you are sidestepping.

Jesus made use of truths of the OT

That part of your post is true.

Luke 24:27 27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures
John 10:35 "the Scripture cannot be broken"

This last part is pure fiction

and let the untruths die on the vine. The Gods have decreed that "Human wisdom must evolve".