Believe the Bible - or mock the Bible - which do you choose?

BobRyan

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Notice how the devil starts with "mock the Word of God" as his opening gambit in Genesis 3?


And he said to the woman, “Indeed, has God said, ‘You shall not eat from any tree of the garden’?

Then notice how clear and irrefutable the text of God's Word "by contrast"?

Originally Posted by BobRyan =========================================
One leading Hebrew scholar is James Barr, Professor of Hebrew Bible at Vanderbilt University and former Regius Professor of Hebrew at Oxford University in England. Although he does not believe in the historicity of Genesis 1, Dr. Barr does agree that the writer's intent was to narrate the actual history of primeval creation. Others also agree with him.

"Probably, so far as I know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Genesis 1-11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that (a) creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience; . . . Or, to put it negatively, the apologetic arguments which suppose the "days" of creation to be long eras of time, the figures of years not to be chronological, and the flood to be a merely local Mesopotamian flood, are not taken seriously by any such professors, as far as I know. "

James Barr, letter to David Watson, 1984.


=====================

"Six days you shall labor... for in SIX days the LORD Made..." Ex 20:8-11

Spoken by God and written in "legal code" not in "parable"


-------------------------------------------------------------

But then arises the religion of evolutionism whose by-faith-alone claim is that "A pile of dirt will sure-enough turn into a rabbit over time - given a sufficiently talented and large pile of dirt... and a sufficiently long and talented length of time filled with just-so-stories that are easy enough to tell".
 
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JacksBratt

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I mock creationists, because they deserve it; I do not mock the Bible.
Of course we deserve to be mocked....

Matthew 5:11-12King James Version (KJV)

11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.


12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
 
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Speedwell

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Certainly we expect atheists to reject the Bible and condemn it as an unreliable source of fact.

Nobody is surprised by that.

Christians on the other hand - believe the Bible.
Thanks, Bob. It cheers me up to know that you don't think I'm a Christian.
 
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KWCrazy

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What a complete straw man. Greenland has an average annual snow fall of about 12 feet. Randomly pulling numbers out of your head proves nothing. So why do we mock creationists? Because they come out with nonsensical and made up facts like that.
Your false allegation borders on libel.
If the aircraft were buried under about 250 feet of ice and snow in about 50 years, this means the ice sheet has been accumulating at an average rate of five feet per year. The Greenland ice sheet averages almost 4000 feet thick. If we were to assume the ice sheet has been accumulating at this rate since its beginning, it would take less than 1000 years for it to form and the recent-creation model might seem to be vindicated....

When these factors are taken into account, the average annual thickness of ice at Camp Century located near the northern tip of Greenland is believed to vary from about fourteen inches near the surface to less than two inches near the bottom (Hammer, et al., 1978). If, for simplicity, we assume the average annual thickness to be the mean between the annual thickness at the top and at the bottom (about eight inches), this still gives an age of less than 6000 years for the 4000-foot-thick ice sheet to form under uniformitarian conditions. source

I don't make up numbers. If you libel me again I WILL report you.
 
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lesliedellow

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Your false allegation borders on libel.
If the aircraft were buried under about 250 feet of ice and snow in about 50 years, this means the ice sheet has been accumulating at an average rate of five feet per year. The Greenland ice sheet averages almost 4000 feet thick. If we were to assume the ice sheet has been accumulating at this rate since its beginning, it would take less than 1000 years for it to form and the recent-creation model might seem to be vindicated....

http://www.oldearth.org/argument/G531_creation_science.htm

The heaviest snow fall is away from the centre of the ice sheet.


I don't make up numbers. If you libel me again I WILL report you.

Report away. There is nothing libellous in anything I said, unless you think that to contradict you is libellous.
 
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mark kennedy

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There is a thread here that starts with a mock-the-Bible list -
Apr 30, 2016 #1

By contrast we could choose to believe what the Bible says. Because it is so clear and irrefutable in its statements that even atheists can figure it out.

Notice how the devil starts with "mock the Word of God" as his opening gambit in Genesis 3?


And he said to the woman, “Indeed, has God said, ‘You shall not eat from any tree of the garden’?

Then notice how clear and irrefutable the text of God's Word "by contrast"?

Originally Posted by BobRyan =========================================
One leading Hebrew scholar is James Barr, Professor of Hebrew Bible at Vanderbilt University and former Regius Professor of Hebrew at Oxford University in England. Although he does not believe in the historicity of Genesis 1, Dr. Barr does agree that the writer's intent was to narrate the actual history of primeval creation. Others also agree with him.

"Probably, so far as I know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Genesis 1-11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that (a) creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience; . . . Or, to put it negatively, the apologetic arguments which suppose the "days" of creation to be long eras of time, the figures of years not to be chronological, and the flood to be a merely local Mesopotamian flood, are not taken seriously by any such professors, as far as I know. "

James Barr, letter to David Watson, 1984.


=====================

"Six days you shall labor... for in SIX days the LORD Made..." Ex 20:8-11

Spoken by God and written in "legal code" not in "parable"


-------------------------------------------------------------

But then arises the religion of evolutionism whose by-faith-alone claim is that "A pile of dirt will sure-enough turn into a rabbit over time - given a sufficiently talented and large pile of dirt... and a sufficiently long and talented length of time filled with just-so-stories that are easy enough to tell".

Such a religion as that is ideal for an attack on the Bible.

And for the sake of the T.E. that does not want to start with the atheist's earth-sized 'pile of dirt' -- we have the "tiny amoeba" version of that same doctrine on origins.

"An amoeba will sure-enough turn into a horse over time - given a sufficiently talented amoeba ... and a sufficiently long and talented length of time filled with just-so-stories that are easy enough to tell".
When the Darwinian vs Creationist debate dried up I started looking into end times. Whwever you study end times invariably it's a history lesson. In Genesis you have the birth of the only two sources for religion, Bable and Israel via Abraham, Isaac and Jacob or mystery Babylon. In the Revelation Babylon is called mystery, there are two religions one based on revelation and the other based on mystification.

You might think the pagans worship their gods like we worship God but I am aware of very few that see them as more then a personification of nature. Wicca for instance, is supposed to be goddess worship, but it's really just practicing magic. You have to understand the pagan mystics down thru the ages didn't see God's as the primary source, everything came from earth air fire or water.

Why does the Heathen rage says psalm 2? Well because they are heathens. If you don't notice none of these discussions are about actual science or philosophy even though its supposed to be, your not paying attention. Its always the fundamental concept of God being Creator invariably argued in highly emotive terms. That because there are only two possible primary sources, God or nature.

Of course they mock to scorn an inference of God being Creator, or even honorable mention as designer. You casting aside the pagan elemental they see as primary first cause. They feign moral indignation but that just melodrama. All mysticism requires a special initiation called enlightenment. That's why they mock the things of God are spiritually discerned, so it sounds like a lot of foolishness to them.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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Speedwell

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Of course we deserve to be mocked....

Matthew 5:11-12King James Version (KJV)

11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.


Sounds like a blessing pronounced on non-YEC Christians. Fortunately, you characters are not (yet) in a position to persecute us, but you've got the rest down pat.
 
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mark kennedy

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Sounds like a blessing pronounced on non-YEC Christians. Fortunately, you characters are not (yet) in a position to persecute us, but you've got the rest down pat.
You do well to be concerned but I find it obvious that you are far from having it down pat. I would hope you learn to consider that God as Creator is essential Christian theism.
 
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Speedwell

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You do well to be concerned but I find it obvious that you are far from having it down pat. I would hope you learn to consider that God as Creator is essential Christian theism.
You know I do already. Your remark is just another instance of saying all manner of evil falsely.
 
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mark kennedy

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You know I do already. Your remark is just another instance of saying all manner of evil falsely.
You know most strollers warm up to the ad hominem personal jab but you like to lead with it.
 
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Speedwell

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You know most strollers warm up to the ad hominem personal jab but you like to lead with it.
Clearly you don't know what an ad hominem argument is.

Argumentum ad hominem is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

You posted, "I would hope you learn to consider that God as Creator is essential Christian theism," implying that I do not now consider that God as creator is essential to Christian theism.

I assert that this is false, not because of your character, motives or other attributes, but because I believe that God is indeed the creator of all. If I comment negatively on your character, motive or other attributes it is not to refute your statement but because you knew it was false when you made it.
 
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BobRyan

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Of course they mock to scorn an inference of God being Creator, or even honorable mention as designer. You casting aside the pagan elemental they see as primary first cause. They feign moral indignation but that just melodrama. All mysticism requires a special initiation called enlightenment. That's why they mock the things of God are spiritually discerned, so it sounds like a lot of foolishness to them.

Grace and peace,
Mark

And the Bible is so clear that only a false-agenda gross exercise in eisegesis making war against scripture (essentially "ripture") can even begin to deconstruct the Bible, the Word of God, the Gospel in blind-faith service to the gods of evolutionism.

for example of the clarity of the Bible on this point and the link between the Gospel and Creation - God our Creator makes this case -

====================================

- the Word of God places the creation fact - as the basis for true worship.

John is informed by Genesis 1, and accepts the Bible rather than rejecting it...

John knows his readers are informed by it... assumes they accept it.

Notice that John 1 is not blind faith evolutionism - just as Genesis 1 is not.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

No evolutionist text on origins will have that text as its affirmative or summary. And we all know it.

Ex 20
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.

No evolutionist text on origins will have that text as its affirmative or summary. And we all know it.

Genes 2
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

No evolutionist text on origins will have that text as its affirmative or summary. And we all know it.

And "yes" John knew of Ex 20:11 so also did his readers

Rev 14:6-7
6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.

Revelation 4:
9 Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, who lives forever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying:
11 “You are worthy, O Lord,
To receive glory and honor and power;
For You created all things,
And by Your will they exist and were created.”



John 1
1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

No evolutionist text on origins will have that text as its affirmative or summary. And we all know it.

Ex 20
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.

No evolutionist text on origins will have that text as its affirmative or summary. And we all know it.

Genes 2
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

=============================================
T.E's have found a "tiny island" for themselves and Bible believing Christians are not going there with them - neither are the atheists and agnostics apparently. (I don't see many Hindus or Buddhists arguing that the Bible is true - except it is bent to preach darwinism)
===================================================

And apparently had no answer for this post than to ignore every detail listed as if blind or could not see for some other reason.

Which is about what we would have expected since these are Bible texts.
 
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mark kennedy

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And the Bible is so clear that only a false-agenda gross exercise in eisegesis making war against scripture (essentially "ripture") can even begin to deconstruct the Bible, the Word of God, the Gospel in blind-faith service to the gods of evolutionism.

I don't expect faith from unbelievers and the Scriptures without faith are incomprehensible. Without God's help you cannot understand sin, righteousness, final judgment, the complete work of Christ or the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Do you really expect unbelievers to accept the testimony of Scripture. Theistic evolutionists are being drawn in by naturalistic thinking because they can't discern between evolution as a phenomenon in nature and Darwinian philosophies of natural history. We do them a disservice when we allow the equivocation of evolution with naturalistic assumptions in natural history.

for example of the clarity of the Bible on this point and the link between the Gospel and Creation - God our Creator makes this case -

====================================

Your preaching to the choir with regards to the testimony of Scripture, let's move on.

No evolutionist text on origins will have that text as its affirmative or summary. And we all know it.

Ex 20
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.

No evolutionist text on origins will have that text as its affirmative or summary. And we all know it.

Genes 2
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

The Sabbath, Bob seriously, you do know I'm not Seventh Day Adventist right? :)

=============================================
T.E's have found a "tiny island" for themselves and Bible believing Christians are not going there with them - neither are the atheists and agnostics apparently. (I don't see many Hindus or Buddhists arguing that the Bible is true - except it is bent to preach darwinism)
===================================================

I have never seen an apologetic argument for anything biblical from a theistic evolutionist and I have been doing this for a while. It would be something to see, that's for sure.

And apparently had no answer for this post than to ignore every detail listed as if blind or could not see for some other reason.

Which is about what we would have expected since these are Bible texts.

Guess we agree in principle at least.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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mark kennedy

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Sounds like a blessing pronounced on non-YEC Christians. Fortunately, you characters are not (yet) in a position to persecute us, but you've got the rest down pat.
Look, I know you have a Christian profession, I sincerely hope and trust is based on conviction. This whole mess surrounding evolution, Darwinism and Creationism is hardly a matter involving persecution. Sure we can be kind of harsh with one another but generally the object is persuasion not punishment. There is the element of doctrinal clarity we must all strive to maintain in good conscience, we can't know nor do we have the moral vigor to judge hidden motives. Walk in the light as you see the light and let's bear in mind, we probably all get this wrong is some way or another. No point in beating one another up on such complex and philosophical exercises.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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Speedwell

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Guess we agree in principle at least.

Grace and peace,
Mark
Since you apparently agree with Bob about the "tiny island" thing, maybe you can explain it to me. He doesn't seem to be able to.
 
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mark kennedy

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Since you apparently agree with Bob about the "tiny island" thing, maybe you can explain it to me. He doesn't seem to be able to.

I'm nut entirely sure what he meant by that, theistic evolution has the exact same naturalistic assumptions all Darwinian thought has. It undermines confidence in Scripture and erodes essential doctrine, creation transcends everything from Genesis 1 to Revelation 22, literally. There is no way Darwinian evolution is benign to Christian theism.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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