Being vegetarian shrinks the brain

[Caedmon]

I absolutely despise steak. I've never liked it.

Do you eat burgers?

 

[Caedmon]

I thought of something - I don't like ketchup with french fries. Is that an abomination lol?

No weirder (is that a word?) than eating french fries with mayonnaise. For the past few years, I've had a kick of not wanting to eat mayonnaise, but lately, I've been rediscovering it. I can remember my dad spreading mayonnaise on crackers. Makes me shudder a little, although, I have to confess, it's quite delicious. As an aside, I also like natural cut fries with malt vinegar.

 

[Antigone]

I thought of something - I don't like ketchup with french fries. Is that an abomination lol?

I always eat them with mayonnaise.

...

It's a Dutch thing.

 

[Caedmon]

I always eat them with mayonnaise.

...

It's a Dutch thing.

You know, the really strange thing about this, is that I started trying french fries with mayonnaise when I was still only a child in grade school. I'd eat it in the school cafeteria (sometimes just to impress/gross out classmates), and as far as I know, I never saw any of my family or friends eat french fries with mayo before that time. I just sort of came to it on my own.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Not to bring this thread back away from fried junk food....but I wanted to make the point that without supplements, even a meat filled diet falls short. In devolped countries most grains are consumed stripped and bleached of nutrients- and then have nutrients supplemented in- check your bread, cereal, pasta--they're all supplemented. Ascorbic acid is added to juices.

For example- unless a woman orders her diet soley around folic acid consumption, there is little to no way she can consume the recommneded amount during her childbearing years. She cannot consume the proper amounts of calcium or magneseium without supplementation. Pretty much without purposeful consumption of either fish-oil or flax seed oil or virgin palm oil--there's no way to consume enough omega-3.

 

[Caedmon]

I still don't buy the vegan argumentation. They claim that the reason we shouldn't eat meat is because animals suffer in living conditions and slaughter. Do they not watch the Discovery Channel? Have they never seen a lion take down a gazelle, the sheer violence and terror that animal experiences before its death? See, I view this as a double standard. Unless they're willing to go out into the wild and prevent that from happening, I have no respect for their argument. Sure, some animal farm living conditions are bad, and it's sad that they don't get to run free in wide-open plains, but lion kills make their slaughter look like a cake-walk. And, like it or not, the human race needs affordable sources of protein. We can't all afford a constant supply of over-priced tofu and soy protein products. And milk and eggs are out (animal products), so whatcha gonna do? Sentimental in thought, impractical in practice. I mean, I respect people who've made this choice, and consider them friends, but really, it doesn't work.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Some people are vegan, because they think that meat/animal product consumption leaves too large of a carbon footprint, and for health reasons.

Just ftr- I am not vegan, nor anything other than an economic vegetarian. I just think that vegetarianism gets a bad rap.

I mean the study in the OP is from India- certainly being a vegetarian in India is a vastly differet experience from being a vegetarian in America.

 

[Caedmon]

Some people are vegan, because they think that meat/animal product consumption leaves too large of a carbon footprint, and for health reasons.

Well that's true too, but by and large the first line of reasoning that I've seen vegans use is "animal cruelty."

Just ftr- I am not vegan, nor anything other than an economic vegetarian. I just think that vegetarianism gets a bad rap.

I mean the study in the OP is from India- certainly being a vegetarian in India is a vastly differet experience from being a vegetarian in America.

Yeah, I don't think there's anything objectively wrong about being a vegetarian, but I don't like it when people get militant about it. But usually, the only ones that do that are vegans.

Myself, I love fresh vegetables. I can't really eat a sandwich unless it has some kind of vegetables in it, even if that's only preserved hot peppers. I also don't shy away from eating a meal of nothing but garden-grown veggies like peas, collard greens, pickled okra and yellow squash & white onions with whole green onions on the side, with some cornbread for the pot liquor. Then again, I'm sure there's at least a little pork product involved in that process, lol. Oh well, you can always just cook it yourself and use vegetable oil with omega oils to fry that battered sliced squash to golden perfection.

 

[InTheCloud]

No weirder (is that a word?) than eating french fries with mayonnaise.

I heard about the Dutch doing that in Pulp Fiction and I liked the idea. I eat my fries with just salt but I do prefer mayonnaise to ketchup.

 

[Veritas]

Hey - i am an exception to every rule.
I cannot remember much of anything - and i eatz my meatz.

BUT - Veritas, as much as i believe vegan diets are unnatural and unhealthy for anyone - because the Bible does say 'the fatted calf' and by no means do i think anyone who eats just veggies to be wrong [its all what flavorz you have]
I was thinking as i read the 'research' debate on cooking meats...
They now say 2 million years ago fire was invented...
However; i was under the impression that the appendex was actually used to help early man types to consume meats raw.

So it is actually cooked meats that increase brain size then?
And does this exclude [i wonder] those who like their meat rare?

FWIW - gimme a spiced just right steak off the grill or the broiler.

I just ate pork [roasted] and i nommed it.



sidenote; maybe i shouldn't visit the lolcatz thread so much.

I like mine rare, too! I think the issue has to do with how cooking the meat broke it down better and allowed the meat to be used as fuel for the brain easier than eating it raw. One thing we can be sure, other than perhaps a few diseases, virtually all meat thousands of years ago was organic, free-range. Therefore, eating it raw didn't pose as much of a health danger. It's also possible that early man had heartier immune systems and greater digestive enzymes to break down raw meat. In our adaptation. our teeth are smaller, our guts less healthy and lacking in good bacteria and enzymes. This makes cooking a necessity.

A NY strip steak with steak fries, salad and accompanied by a nice Cabernet Sauvignon is the closest thing we have here on earth to heaven.

You're close. I prefer a small fillet mignon with a garlic mash or roasted veggies on the side. The wine would taste good but give me a headache

LOL!

My husband freaks out about this too. I remember being forced to clean my plate when I was a kid that had steak on it. I puked.

I'm just not big on red meat.

I like salad with chicken or turkey in it.

I eat fish.

I love some good authentic tacos.

Lobster...

Now RESPECT me dang it!

Different strokes. As long as you get an animal source of protein that's suitable for you, you're fine.

I still don't buy the vegan argumentation. They claim that the reason we shouldn't eat meat is because animals suffer in living conditions and slaughter. Do they not watch the Discovery Channel? Have they never seen a lion take down a gazelle, the sheer violence and terror that animal experiences before its death? See, I view this as a double standard. Unless they're willing to go out into the wild and prevent that from happening, I have no respect for their argument. Sure, some animal farm living conditions are bad, and it's sad that they don't get to run free in wide-open plains, but lion kills make their slaughter look like a cake-walk. And, like it or not, the human race needs affordable sources of protein. We can't all afford a constant supply of over-priced tofu and soy protein products. And milk and eggs are out (animal products), so whatcha gonna do? Sentimental in thought, impractical in practice. I mean, I respect people who've made this choice, and consider them friends, but really, it doesn't work.

I eat almost entirely organic or natural grass fed beef. Those cows are "humanely" slaughtered.

Some people are vegan, because they think that meat/animal product consumption leaves too large of a carbon footprint, and for health reasons.

Just ftr- I am not vegan, nor anything other than an economic vegetarian. I just think that vegetarianism gets a bad rap.

I mean the study in the OP is from India- certainly being a vegetarian in India is a vastly differet experience from being a vegetarian in America.

See, I think meat-eaters get a "bad rap", hence this thread. Those of us that eat meat don't have activist organizations formed to get our message out. We don't really need one because we're eating the way God intended us to. But when you look at Peta and other environmental groups, they are so radical and offensive. That's what bugs me. Also, I would point out that meat and fish have all the essential amino acides in the correct balance and ratio required by the human body. Plants do not.



I would strongly suggest you all read Metabolic Typing Diet book. There are three basic types, Protein, Mixed and Carb. Your genetic ancestry plays a role in what type you most likely are. There is a really good typing quiz in the book that helps you determine your type and also challenge meals that help. The science and medicine behind it is fascinating. For example, Protein types (which most people are) burn through their calories very fast and require large amounts of animal protein and fat to slow things down. Depending on the rate which you burn your calories also effects your autonomic and parasymathetic nervous system as well as other systems.

http://www.amazon.com/Metabolic-Typ...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221589528&sr=8-1

 

[Lilmissykato]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ies_shrinks_the_brain/articleshow/3480629.cms

MELBOURNE: Scientists have discovered that going veggie could be bad for your brain-with those on a meat-free [COLOR=blue! important][COLOR=blue! important]diet[/color][/color] six times more likely to suffer brain shrinkage.

Vegans and vegetarians are the most likely to be deficient because the best sources of the vitamin are meat, particularly liver, milk and fish. Vitamin B12 deficiency can also cause anaemia and [COLOR=blue! important][COLOR=blue! important]inflammation[/color][/color] of the nervous system. Yeast extracts are one of the few vegetarian foods which provide good levels of the vitamin.

The link was discovered by Oxford University scientists who used memory tests, physical checks and brain scans to examine 107 people between the ages of 61 and 87.

When the volunteers were retested five years later the medics found those with the lowest levels of [COLOR=blue! important][COLOR=blue! important]vitamin [COLOR=blue! important]B12[/color][/color][/color] were also the most likely to have brain shrinkage. It confirms earlier research showing a link between brain atrophy and low levels of B12.

I'm a vegitarian and I need to point out that this is very unrealistic. Most, if not all, of vegitarians know to eat the proper things to keep everything working in order. With all the junk pumped into animals it is far healthier to eat boca or fake meat then it is to eat real meat. That being said, I do not care if others eat meat- it is a personal choice.

 

[Photini]

I really wish organic meats and veggies were more affordable. It's getting to where even the "cheap" stuff is dang expensive.

 

[Calliso]

Not to bring this thread back away from fried junk food....but I wanted to make the point that without supplements, even a meat filled diet falls short. In devolped countries most grains are consumed stripped and bleached of nutrients- and then have nutrients supplemented in- check your bread, cereal, pasta--they're all supplemented. Ascorbic acid is added to juices.

For example- unless a woman orders her diet soley around folic acid consumption, there is little to no way she can consume the recommneded amount during her childbearing years. She cannot consume the proper amounts of calcium or magneseium without supplementation. Pretty much without purposeful consumption of either fish-oil or flax seed oil or virgin palm oil--there's no way to consume enough omega-3.

Yep exactly Omnivore diets can be just as unhealthy if not balanced and supplemented as well. Vegans and vegetarians have very healthy IF planned well. I think the problem is your average person that goes Vegan or Vegetarian doesn;t bother to put much thought into the diet. It just bothers me though even though I am an omnivore because everyone is so quick to point out the issues with a vegetarian diet and so few are willing to admit that probably the majority of omnivore diets aren;t that great either. I think what it comes down to though is with careful planning you can be healthy whether you are a Vegan vegetarian or omnivore.

 

[Calliso]

Some people are vegan, because they think that meat/animal product consumption leaves too large of a carbon footprint, and for health reasons.

Just ftr- I am not vegan, nor anything other than an economic vegetarian. I just think that vegetarianism gets a bad rap.

I mean the study in the OP is from India- certainly being a vegetarian in India is a vastly differet experience from being a vegetarian in America.

Yeah health and enviromental reasons seem to be the second biggest reasons after animal cruetly . I think most if not all are also aware of that fact that yes predators _ kill and kill rather viciously too. However the thing these predators NEED meat. They cannot survive like we can on a plant based diet. Not to mention the horrible lives much of the animals our meat dairy and eggs comes from live. The point is we are not carnivores we have a choice.


Also I agree with you vegetarians and especially vegans get a bad rap. And I bet you some of the very people that rag on vegetarian and vegan diets don;t have a very sound diet themselves.

 

[Auntie]

It is not "pick your poison" A balanced Diet takes from all the various food groups. A strict vegan Diet Does Not. vegans have to ingest various supplements or they face dire consequences. Those that eat a balanced diet of Meat, grains, fruits and vegetables, do not. Thus the proof is in the pudding.

I agree, a balanced diet just makes sense. Completely leaving out a food group like meat just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Veritas]

I'm a vegitarian and I need to point out that this is very unrealistic. Most, if not all, of vegitarians know to eat the proper things to keep everything working in order. With all the junk pumped into animals it is far healthier to eat boca or fake meat then it is to eat real meat. That being said, I do not care if others eat meat- it is a personal choice.

See, I don't think vegetarian's do know how to eat right. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many unhealthy ones. Further, if you eat organic, grass-fed beef you don't get "all the junk"....just pure, natural protein the way God intended. I, too, think that the way someone eats is a personal choice (as long as kids are being fed improperly) But claiming to be a vegetarian for health reason just doesn't cut it. It's not natural nor healthy.

True story: I took my dog earlier this year to a "Holistic Vet". She's a nice gal but rather thin and pale inspite of being of Italian heritage. We got to talking about diet; dogs first than humans. She confessed to being a long-time vegetarian but had increasingly not been feeling well....really run down, exhausted, ill, etc. She said that she consumed a lot of veggie proteins and supplements to fill the gap but it just wasn't helping. I told her about the Metabolic Typing Diet book, and how she may not be eating right for her type. As a Mediterranian person, she was most likely a mixed type and would thrive more on lean cuts of poultry, pork and fish along with fresh fruits and veggies which most native Italians eat. I don't know if she got the book, but she clearly was not doing well on her vegetarian diet even with supplementation. That's because only a very few people are suited to this very limited way of eating.

 

[WarriorAngel]

LOL!

My husband freaks out about this too. I remember being forced to clean my plate when I was a kid that had steak on it. I puked.

I'm just not big on red meat.

I like salad with chicken or turkey in it.

I eat fish.

I love some good authentic tacos.

Lobster...

Now RESPECT me dang it!

YOU like lobster - i totally respect you.

Actually when i was a child - my dad liked steak almost every night and red meats - so for a very long time i could take or leave steak.
But i fell in love with steak when i started making it medium [slightly over rare] vs the well done my dad liked. eck.

I thought of something - I don't like ketchup with french fries. Is that an abomination lol?

YES!!!!

No weirder (is that a word?) than eating french fries with mayonnaise. For the past few years, I've had a kick of not wanting to eat mayonnaise, but lately, I've been rediscovering it. I can remember my dad spreading mayonnaise on crackers. Makes me shudder a little, although, I have to confess, it's quite delicious. As an aside, I also like natural cut fries with malt vinegar.

Try sour cream with crackers.... mmmmm.
Just as much fat i am sure - so its pretty tasty.




FWIW - i love animals...hence i have in my house: a cat, a dog, a garter snake, a white mouse, and a goldfish. And 4 outdoor kitties. [who could also live indoors if anyone wants any] Debating whether or not to get a bird.

That aside i wanted to touch base on something science studied years back - i suppose a group of scientists were curious about the 'dont kill anything living to eat' debate...
And studied the reactions of plants to being pulled off the vine - plant [whatever]
and they discovered that veggies feel pain. [no i am not kidding] and whenever i hear the argument about not killing to eat - i recall that.

I will eat my veggies [i used to be vegetarian before marriage]...and i LOVE veggies.
And i will eat my meat.

My favoritestestestest is seafood and lobster.

So anyway - no matter where the debate goes, we are all killing something in order to eat.

I probably need an iv pump of vitamins daily...because seriously i tried consuming all those nutrish's i need...and then some. It really didnt agree with me and i had serious tummy upset.
I guess you probably cannot mix lutien, calcium, ginkobo, one a day, and whatever else i was taking - at one sitting.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Altho - come to think of it...one doctor did say vitamins and supplements are not natural, and are synthetic so they are not as beneficial...
And no company can produce organic minerals and vitamins because the cost is prohibitive and there is no shelf life ...

And another doctor says that with todays vitamins, the 'shelf' life is almost indefinite
[maybe because it is synthetic] and the fact companies throw it away when it 'expires' is a crock.

So - i dunno.

It depends on how much you are willing to believe in print when its what they offer. They dont have to be 100% accurate - they just have to be safe and use 'science' as a sales tactic. [science done on actual vitamins]

God Bless

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Organic grass fed beef still is a huge waste of resources, and still is high in saturated fat.

And you have no idea why that woman wasn't feeling well--she could have had cancer, been pregnant, or myriad other things...reading one book makes a person an expert innutritional diagnostics?? For that one book, Veritas there are several hundred more giving alternate theories about the optimum diet. If it works for you --that's awesome that you have found that..and even that you recommend it having ifound it so helpful-but you can't use it diagnostically...

LOL! The study also said that fat womwn have brain shrinkage, and regular wine drinkers. The key viatamin defeciency in the study was linked to B-12. If you aren't eating mollusks or liver regularly- you're likely getting your B-12 mostly from your fortified breakfast cereal...

 

[WarriorAngel]

I like my fortified cereal.

ALSO - I was talking to a woman today who told me that she discovered there are 2 types of alzheimers. [because of what her dad went thru]
And one is directly related to someone who had a heart attack or needed a stint. [or stroke]

As for all the books - i think we are all genetically predisposed to how healthy or unhealthy our bodies are.

I heard [and isnt this what its all about - what we hear]
THAT some folks can eat all the fat they want and not have a cholesterol problem, and others wont eat fat and do have a problem.

AND at the same time, someone with a verified cholesterol problem might not have hardening of the arteries, while others who never had an issue might have hardened arteries.

Genetics - might be a strong factor.
However; outside of that - statistics on the average group numbers could be a sign there is a problem.

I think strict veganism is going way overboard.
[to me vegetarian is ok since you can still eat eggs and dairy]

And anyway - i think maybe my stoopid-ity now could be a testament to avoiding strict veg diets.
[its a joke] I did eat eggs and dairy.