Being professional around men versus women

akmom

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I know there are many different personalities and styles of interaction, but is there actually an overarching "typical" communication style that differs between men and women in business settings?

I mention it because I have always found that women are very, very difficult for me to communicate with. (I should clarify that I'm a woman, so as not to confuse.) I get along fine with other women in social settings. But over the years I have noticed, at least in my experience, that I'm far less likely to accomplish something if I have to depend on other women to get it done. I was reminded of this today when I was tackling a set of problems that had been on the backburner for awhile, and spent the whole day on the phone talking to a dozen different people.

When a woman answered, I was far more likely to get a response like, "I'm sorry, there's nothing I can do," or "Unfortunately, that's all I know." Whereas when a man answered the phone, I consistently got answers like "Let me see how we can troubleshoot that," or "If I can put you on hold for a minute, I can go find out." I don't believe I'm being sexist in this observation, since it is simply my experience. There was actually only one woman who was of any use to me today, and she sounded very young. It's as if women get older and just feel entitled to answer phones and collect a paycheck. Whereas the men want to accomplish their duties. It really makes me reflect on myself and how I treat people. Do I try to fix their problems or just get them off the phone? I honestly think I try to fix their problems, because I actually take pride in it and it stresses me out to go home at the end of the day and feel like I left someone hanging.

I've also considered that maybe I just have a way of communicating which subconsciously offends women, and perhaps makes them unwilling to be helpful. My husband says I can be blunt and confrontational. That may be so, though I make an effort not to, but it doesn't seem to deter men from doing their jobs. What are other people's experiences on this? Is there a difference between how men and women should be communicated with?
 

RedPonyDriver

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Maybe the women you talked to really didn't know how to handle the problem...as a woman, I have gotten the condescending baloney from men and I don't like that either. That said, without knowing what kind of issue you were trying to resolve, I don't know if the problem was lazy women or that they did not know. However, they should have made the effort to connect you with someone who would.
 
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akmom

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What do you mean by "condescending baloney from men"? Do you mean that men would say condescending things to you instead of answering questions? I don't think I ever encounter condescending tones from men OR women in business settings. But that makes me curious if *I* am coming across that way.

I was dealing with several issues today, but all of them were business matters that these people were employed to handle. I get women talking in circles, giving me assurances that ended up not being true, or insisting that I have to submit all kinds of documentation before they could help me (which made no sense, and upon a subsequent call I got the service I needed WIHOUT the run-around that the female receptionist had insisted on). Specifically, women will say dismissive things in hopes that I will pursue the matter from another angle, somewhere else. Men just answer my question and hang up, problem solved.
 
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ValleyGal

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I don't know that men and women should be communicated with differently, but I think they do communicate differently. I used to be the only woman in a trucking company. I got along with everyone, there was no gossiping, no backstabbing, and there was clear, straight-forward communication - little room for error. I later became a nurse and worked with all women, and many of those women talked behind each other's back, gossiped, got cliquey, and sometimes got downright nasty with each other. It reminded me of what happens on elementary school playgrounds. Women carried grudges more, and men tended to grunt their way to an understanding and it would all be normal the next day. I much preferred to work with men.

Now that I'm a social worker, I find working with most women absolutely abusive (when I was in child protection), but my last job working with people with multiple barriers to independence was terrific - most everyone was terrific to work with aside from one of the men who just had some issues with temperament. In this work, we worked with groups of clients, and I found the women much like the other nurses I used to work with, and the men more like the truckers I worked with - so it was the same with clients as it was with past colleagues.

Imo, the important part of working with both men and women is respect - no cliques, no back-stabbing or gossiping, taking responsibility for your own "stuff", speaking clearly, concisely, tactfully, etc.
 
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akmom

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I definitely agree with your assessment ValleyGal, of avoiding cliques, back-stabbing or gossiping. But my problems are with women I *don't* have a preexisting relationship with. I speak with them maybe a handful of times, mostly by telephone, and so I don't have to deal with those office politics. Perhaps that prevalent "attitude" so many women have is the root of my troubles too. But how do I dodge it in these short-term business transactions?

I'm going to relay the most egregious example, or the gist of it. I needed to order certain supplies that, I was told, could only be delivered by a certain carrier. (I already knew this.) I explained that the carrier did not deliver to the site where I needed the supplies. Well you will have to use different supplies, I was told. I explained that the nature of the problem required these specific supplies - none others were approved for this kind of job. Yes, she acknowledged, so you will have to use the mandatory supplies. So how shall I get it, I asked? With a specific carrier, she repeated. That carrier does not deliver to such sites, for logistical reasons. So I told her, certainly you can see my dilemma! So what *am* I permitted to do? I'm sorry, but those are your only options, she insisted. After we went in circles for awhile, she finally suggested that I try to find a new carrier who is willing to do that. I said, does any one else have permits for that? She didn't know. I asked her to look it up. She said she could "look into it," in a dismissive tone that meant she never would. I pressed her to be more specific. She gave me a list of irrelevant agencies to contact, and eventually terminated the conversation with the hollow question, "Is there anything else I can help you with?" Later that afternoon I was connected with another random person at the same agency and his reply was, "Yes, I see your problem. I'm sure there is a way around that, because people do that kind of job all the time." Sure enough, there was a simple exemption form. WHY COULDN'T THE WOMAN HAVE SAID THAT?? It's maddening to have my time wasted like that. She wouldn't even admit she was talking in circles. She didn't even say, "Wow, I see your problem. Let me talk to my supervisor and see what you can do." She just kept offering the next "solution" that she knew didn't apply, as if to go through the motions and get me off the phone. I feel like most women do this! They won't be helpful unless it's super simple and quick! How do you beat that? It's like... they see "red tape" as an excuse not to do anything, whereas men will navigate around the "red tape" and make things happen as intended.
 
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RedPonyDriver

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I think that most women in those situations will not "go the extra mile". Men, by nature, tend to be problem solvers. I know in my engineering career there were a few women who would not bother to "think outside the box" for a solution where the men were more "box? What box??" sort of thinkers. I am more male in that regard, direct and solution oriented.
And yes...I pretty much hate working with women.
 
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akmom

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Thank you, RedPonyDriver! I feel like that is exactly the difference (generally) between men and women in business settings. So many women just aren't "solution oriented." That knowledge doesn't help much when that is who I get to deal with. Perhaps I could just ask if there is someone more "manly" I can speak with. J/K!!!!
 
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LinkH

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One bit of advice I hear about marriage for men is that when a woman talks about a problem, she may not want her husband to try to 'fix it.' Men offer solutions when they hear problems. Women may say empathetic things. Sometimes the 'fix it' approach frustrates a wife. That's what people say, at least.

Maybe these phone calls gave men an opportunity to fix a problem, which fits with how males think when they hear about a problem.
 
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98cwitr

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In my work place we have both men and women that seem like they are there to just collect a paycheck; use other people for information while not doing any due diligence of their own, and "I don't know" sees like a good hard-stop "leave me alone" answer to them. I think it's really just in the way you were raised, and less to do with the sex of the person.
 
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Job8

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What are other people's experiences on this? Is there a difference between how men and women should be communicated with?
Absolutely. Women tend to allow their emotions to govern their communications. Also, in a business setting, too many women are trying to "prove" their capabilities, rather than just demonstrate them through good decisions and results.
 
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All4Christ

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Perhaps it is the nature of the job I hold, but I haven't seen the same attitude from women. I am a web developer and work in a technical agency. All the women in my team are very problem solving oriented and work as hard as possible to get things fixed as fast as possible. That said, if I ever need a listening ear for a problem - they are more than willing to listen - and keep it confidential.

I have always had a lot of guy friends though. There aren't a ton of women programmers there. We all tend to get along well with the guys though we also tend to be grateful when there is another woman on the team. We actually have 4 women on my current team (out of 16). That's a very high ratio of women in a web / database development team from my experience. Many teams I am one of the only women programmers.
 
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All4Christ

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I think that most women in those situations will not "go the extra mile". Men, by nature, tend to be problem solvers. I know in my engineering career there were a few women who would not bother to "think outside the box" for a solution where the men were more "box? What box??" sort of thinkers. I am more male in that regard, direct and solution oriented.
And yes...I pretty much hate working with women.
This is very much opposite of my experience. As a women in a technical career, who completes problem solving every minute of every day, it is frustrating to deal with this attitude. Many women are excellent problem solvers and think of out of the box on a regular basis. Often, the ability to understand a problem can enhance the ability of someone to solve the problem better.

This attitude is likely why there are so few women programmers. I'm not a feminist by a long shot, but I hate it when people pigeon hole our ability based on our genders. Thankfully there are more girls coming out of college that are programmers than before.
 
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All4Christ

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One bit of advice I hear about marriage for men is that when a woman talks about a problem, she may not want her husband to try to 'fix it.' Men offer solutions when they hear problems. Women may say empathetic things. Sometimes the 'fix it' approach frustrates a wife. That's what people say, at least.

Maybe these phone calls gave men an opportunity to fix a problem, which fits with how males think when they hear about a problem.
I find that attitude often in personal approaches to people (and I don't think it is a bad thing) but that doesn't mean that women are not willing or able to solve problems or think out of the box as a few other posters suggested.
 
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RedPonyDriver

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This is very much opposite of my experience. As a women in a technical career, who completes problem solving every minute of every day, it is frustrating to deal with this attitude. Many women are excellent problem solvers and think of out of the box on a regular basis. Often, the ability to understand a problem can enhance the ability of someone to solve the problem better.

This attitude is likely why there are so few women programmers. I'm not a feminist by a long shot, but I hate it when people pigeon hole our ability based on our genders. Thankfully there are more girls coming out of college that are programmers than before.

I don't know how old you are but when I started as a baby engineer back in the dark ages, women engineers were told to go home, bake cookies and have babies. For many years I was the only female engineer....growing up with brothers was an asset for me. I'm glad things are changing.
 
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All4Christ

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I don't know how old you are but when I started as a baby engineer back in the dark ages, women engineers were told to go home, bake cookies and have babies. For many years I was the only female engineer....growing up with brothers was an asset for me. I'm glad things are changing.
It's still not equal amounts of men and women, but even in the 9 years I've worked here after college, it has changed significantly. I've been able to interview some recent college grads and there are more women now. Two of the four women on my team joined in the past year, as a recent grad and intern respectively. Even before that though, my team respected everyone there, men and women alike. I've appreciated all the support from both management and team members. This support applies across our agency (very large) and not just in my smaller team. We do have a lot of training on the subject and emphasis on equality though.

That said, the majority of women from the earlier years of my time here are analysts or help desk, rather than the programming / engineering side of the house. Most work conferences I've gone to have many more men than women. Even the restrooms were switched, lol since they needed more stalls for men over the women! Ironically, often it seemed like men and Asian women, with a minority of other women. Perhaps different cultures support technical careers for women more than others?

It is changing though. I'm happy to see women supported and coming into the workplace as equals.
 
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RedPonyDriver

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Being a first generation US born Latina and the only girl in my immediate and extended family who went into engineering caused a whole lot of chaos in my family! Add not marrying until I was in my 30's and no kids to the mix...
In the US, that whole patriarchal thing is still very much entrenched in the culture. I graduated from college in the mid 80's...things were starting to change but very slowly.
 
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All4Christ

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Being a first generation US born Latina and the only girl in my immediate and extended family who went into engineering caused a whole lot of chaos in my family! Add not marrying until I was in my 30's and no kids to the mix...
In the US, that whole patriarchal thing is still very much entrenched in the culture. I graduated from college in the mid 80's...things were starting to change but very slowly.
I am blessed to have a very supportive family. My mom stayed at home to raise us (one of the most dedicated hardworking women I know and someone I admire greatly), but they both encouraged me to follow my dreams. My dad also was in Information Technology, and helped me learn how to successfully work in the technical fields and to become a leader at work. They both want me to find the best path for me and my family and support either choice I make regarding kids in the future.

(On a side note, though somewhat related) I have a hard choice coming up in the next few years once we have a family. I'm currently working on a personal web development company in hopes to work part time at my current job, and part time at home with my personal business, so I can be available for my (future) kids. Or maybe I'll just do the home business part time and be home with the kids for the other part? I really don't know what is best.

I don't think there is an absolute wrong or right choice. That said, I'm not sure what is the right choice for us. It was wonderful to have my mom there for us growing up. Leaving behind my work as a programmer altogether though would be an extremely difficult thing to do. My husband knows that and wants to make sure I can follow both dreams someway somehow.

Perhaps that is one reason I married in my early thirties as well and don't have kids yet. Someday though I'll have to figure things out.
 
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akmom

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I don't understand how people pull off the work-at-home with kids thing. Kids take too much attention. When I had my first baby, and quit working, a man we knew (sans children) wanted me to do his clerical work for him from home. He was just stumped that I declined his offer. I told him I had an infant to care for. He said, "You can work from home!" As if... an infant is some fixture you set on the mantle, and then go about your day. Nope, they require holding, feeding, changing, soothing and stimuli round the clock. He suggested nap time, which is a fair suggestion, but nap time is just enough downtime to finish all the little things that require free hands, that people just take for granted before having kids. Working from home is a great concept, but there's a reason people either quit work or enroll kids in daycare. There's just no practical way to do a significant amount of work and be a main caretaker. Unless you work in a daycare center, I guess.

People would be livid if they found out their child's schoolteacher had a separate business that she managed during the school day. Because they expect her attention to be on the kids. Even though kids have recess and many activities they work on independently, there is not enough time like that for a teacher to successfully run a business and do justice to her classroom. That is even more true for younger kids, who require more attention than school-age kids. So I kind of cringe when people have plans to "work from home" so they can be there for their future kids. Just not sure how that would work.
 
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All4Christ

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I don't understand how people pull off the work-at-home with kids thing. Kids take too much attention. When I had my first baby, and quit working, a man we knew (sans children) wanted me to do his clerical work for him from home. He was just stumped that I declined his offer. I told him I had an infant to care for. He said, "You can work from home!" As if... an infant is some fixture you set on the mantle, and then go about your day. Nope, they require holding, feeding, changing, soothing and stimuli round the clock. He suggested nap time, which is a fair suggestion, but nap time is just enough downtime to finish all the little things that require free hands, that people just take for granted before having kids. Working from home is a great concept, but there's a reason people either quit work or enroll kids in daycare. There's just no practical way to do a significant amount of work and be a main caretaker. Unless you work in a daycare center, I guess.

People would be livid if they found out their child's schoolteacher had a separate business that she managed during the school day. Because they expect her attention to be on the kids. Even though kids have recess and many activities they work on independently, there is not enough time like that for a teacher to successfully run a business and do justice to her classroom. That is even more true for younger kids, who require more attention than school-age kids. So I kind of cringe when people have plans to "work from home" so they can be there for their future kids. Just not sure how that would work.
As a clarification - working from home would allow me to share the responsibility of taking care of the kids with my husband, who (assuming things go well with a career change) will be in and out of the house. I would only think about working from home if either a. My husband would be there to take care of the kids or b. I had someone there to help take care of them. It definitely couldn't be full time work. With my job (web development), I can do my job anytime of the day or night when I have help to watch kids.

My husband is concerned about me stopping my career once we have kids, partially because of money and partially because of insurance. I also am concerned since the career change he is making may not be stable financially for several years. Despite that, I would like to be able to be home with kids - though I still do want to keep a marketable skill. My mom stayed home with us, and I really appreciated that. So, I guess I am trying to work out a way to make our situation work from the various points I mentioned above.
 
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