Baptist is not a Denomination

PrincetonGuy

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“Baptist” is NOT a denomination—it is a category of Christians. It is not a denomination because it is not an organization made up of congregations that are united in their adherence to its beliefs and practices. There are well over 200 Baptist “denominations” in North America alone. Each one is an organization that made up of congregations that are united to some extent in their adherence to its beliefs and practices, and these beliefs and practices vary greatly from Baptist “denomination” to Baptist “denomination.” However, since each local Baptist church is autonomous, the word “denominations” is not a precisely accurate term for these subcategories, but is used for convenience.
 
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rockytopva

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I believe that the church ages are seven...

1. Ephesus - Apostolic
2. Smyrna - Martyrs
3. Pergamos - Orthodox
4. Thyatira - Catholic
5. Sardis - A Sardius is a gem - Elegant yet hard and rigid
6. Philadelphia - The age of the revival and the great awakening
7. Laodicea - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

I find that the Baptist church spans three church ages... Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.

1. John McArthur is more Sardisean
2. Billy Graham is more Philadelphian
3. Liberty University - Is more Laodicean

I say that many Baptist bible colleges are embracing the new Charismatic sound, which stems from the Laodicean church age. I was brought up in a Sardisean baptist church which would consider 'Gospel Rock' evil and encourage its membership to avoid it all together.

There is a wide variety here. Even within Baptist denominations you have some that lean more Sardisean and others who lean more Laodicean. I gave a Baptist church a visit in which the young people worshiped in another building with the charismatic sound (really loud) while the main congregation stayed in the main sanctuary with more of the hymn based music.
 
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OzSpen

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“Baptist” is NOT a denomination—it is a category of Christians. It is not a denomination because it is not an organization made up of congregations that are united in their adherence to its beliefs and practices. There are well over 200 Baptist “denominations” in North America alone. Each one is an organization that made up of congregations that are united to some extent in their adherence to its beliefs and practices, and these beliefs and practices vary greatly from Baptist “denomination” to Baptist “denomination.” However, since each local Baptist church is autonomous, the word “denominations” is not a precisely accurate term for these subcategories, but is used for convenience.

That is not the case here in Queensland. Queensland Baptists are part of the denomination/movement of Australian Baptists and the Queensland Baptist theological college is Malyon College.
 
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Poor Beggar

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In talking about sermons, I spoke to a pastor who recently move to the North Dallas area. While moving, he found a suspicious shoebox and asked his wife what was in the box. His wife would only say that it is personal and he cannot look inside the box. As luck would have it, the pastor's wife left the house.

The pastor could not deal with the fact that he was not permitted to look in the box. While the wife was away, the pastor found the box and looked inside the box. It contained 4 eggs and a good sum of cash. He heard his wife arriving home and quickly returned the box from where he found it.

Soon, The husband admitted what he had done and asked his wife why keep eggs in the box. The wife said every time he preaches a bad sermon, she puts an egg in the box. The pastor didn't feel that was so bad with just four eggs. He then asked her about all the cash in the box. The wife explained that when she gets a dozen eggs she sales them.
YES!
 
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mikedsjr

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I would contest the notion of church ages as an American view on history. America may be wealthy, but the vast number of Christians around the world are not. Some face terrible persecution, but Christianity still grows there.

I would also say the Great Awakenings and revival are too romanticized by churches. What was the outcome of these? One historian scholar has stated 8% of Americans claimed to be Christian in the early 1800s, just after the Great Awakening, yet today there is a greater % of people claiming they are Christians today than ever. I find the revivals and great awakening a symptom of the worldviews of that day, romanticism. It should surprise no one most of the false Christian religions started during this time. Today's Christians still tend to look at the romantic period as the best, but I find it the birth place of the Holy Spirit error that he speaks to people in ways Scripture doesn't speak of.
 
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I believe that the church ages are seven...

1. Ephesus - Apostolic
2. Smyrna - Martyrs
3. Pergamos - Orthodox
4. Thyatira - Catholic
5. Sardis - A Sardius is a gem - Elegant yet hard and rigid
6. Philadelphia - The age of the revival and the great awakening
7. Laodicea - Rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing?

I find that the Baptist church spans three church ages... Sardis, Philadelphia, and Laodicea.

1. John McArthur is more Sardisean
2. Billy Graham is more Philadelphian
3. Liberty University - Is more Laodicean

I say that many Baptist bible colleges are embracing the new Charismatic sound, which stems from the Laodicean church age. I was brought up in a Sardisean baptist church which would consider 'Gospel Rock' evil and encourage its membership to avoid it all together.

There is a wide variety here. Even within Baptist denominations you have some that lean more Sardisean and others who lean more Laodicean. I gave a Baptist church a visit in which the young people worshiped in another building with the charismatic sound (really loud) while the main congregation stayed in the main sanctuary with more of the hymn based music.
Here are my thoughts on the seven church ages. In Rev. 1:19 John is told the book is broken into past, present, future. In Rev. 4, the same language used to denote future proceedings is used in verse 1. That means chapters 2-3 are present time for John. If the churches go in historicsl order, the last six churches would be future to John, making the statement in 4:1 out of temporal order.
 
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I would contest the notion of church ages as an American view on history. America may be wealthy, but the vast number of Christians around the world are not. Some face terrible persecution, but Christianity still grows there.

I would also say the Great Awakenings and revival are too romanticized by churches. What was the outcome of these? One historian scholar has stated 8% of Americans claimed to be Christian in the early 1800s, just after the Great Awakening, yet today there is a greater % of people claiming they are Christians today than ever. I find the revivals and great awakening a symptom of the worldviews of that day, romanticism. It should surprise no one most of the false Christian religions started during this time. Today's Christians still tend to look at the romantic period as the best, but I find it the birth place of the Holy Spirit error that he speaks to people in ways Scripture doesn't speak of.
But your assessment of the qualities of our present day are SPOT ON.
 
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PeacefulWarrier

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Thanks for your responses everyone!

If you are wondering what prompted this question, I read this:

"Baptists are not Protestants but hold tenaciously to the original precepts and practices of Christ and the apostles. Baptists believe the pure Word of God to be sufficient authority on all matters. Baptists reject all human religious traditions and practices that have originated since the time of the apostles. Full historical data immediately refutes the view that there was only one religious group -- the Roman Catholic church -- until the time of Martin Luther. Anyone who claims this simply has not done his homework.

Baptists make no effort to trace a historical succession back to the age of the Apostles. Their only claim is that at every age in church history there have been groups that have held to the same doctrines that Baptists hold today. These groups may or may not have been connected and they have been known by various names.

There were the Montanists (150 A.D.), the Novatians (240 A.D.), Donatists (305 A.D.), Albigenses (1022 A.D.), Waldensians (1170 A.D.), and the name Anabaptists came into prominence just before the time of the Protestant Reformation. In fact, the first use of a form of the Baptist name may be found in a response to the Diet of Speier in 1529, taking action against the Turks and the Lutheran groups who questioned the doctrines of the Catholic Church.

Certain Lutheran princes appeared before this Roman Catholic Diet with a formal written protest against those matters in which the Diet went contrary to the Christian faith as they understood it. This protest was signed by Elector John of Saxony, Margrave George of Brandenburg, Dukes Ernest and Francis of Braunschweig-Luneburg, Landgrave Philip of Hesse, Prince Wolfgang of Anhalt and the representatives of fourteen imperial cities.

Once the Diet's edicts were published, a formal letter of protest by these government authorities was also issued to counter the Church's pronouncement, but they made it clear the did not speak for Baptists. n their written statement, "All Anabaptists and rebaptized persons, male or female, of mature age, shall be judged and brought from natural life to death, by fire, or sword or otherwise, as may benefit the persons, without preceding trial by spiritual judges." The Baptists then did not share in this protest and consequently cannot bear the name "Protestant."

Catholic prelate Stanislaus Hosius spoke of the history of the Baptist movement predating the Lutheran separation by centuries. Pope Paul IV designated Cardinal Hosius as one of the three papal presidents of the famous Council of Trent. Hosius carried on vigorously the work of the counter-reformation. If anyone in post-reformation times knew the doctrines and history of non-Catholic groups, it was Hosius. Cardinal Hosius wrote, "Were it not that the Baptists have been grievously tormented and cut off with the knife during the past 1,200 years, they would swarm in greater number than all the Reformers"

It is also evident that the Baptists were not Protestants because they were fiercely persecuted by the Protestant Reformers and their followers. Uncounted thousands of them lost their goods, their lands, and their lives in these persecutions. Konred Grebel died in prison in 1526. Felix Manz was drowned by the authorities at Zurich in 1527. Noted Baptist leader Baithauser Hubmaier was burned alive at the stake in Vienna March 10, 1528. Three days later his wife was drowned by being thrown over the Danube bridge with a stone tied to her neck. The facts abundantly attest that historically Baptists are not Protestants.

While modern Protestant churches have largely abandoned Catholic doctrine regarding infant baptism, an Earthly head of the church, and other Catholic teachings that Luther and others brought out of the Church with them, Baptists have never believed those things. And there are numerous remnants of Catholic doctrine still sprinkled among Protest denominations.

Doctrinally, Baptists differ even from the modern Lutherian teachings.

  • God's Word alone is sufficient for faith and practice. We read "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine..." (II Timothy 3:16). Various Protestant denominations have creeds, catechisms and assorted doctrinal standards.
  • Baptists believe that Christ and only Christ is the Head of the Church even as the Scripture says, "Christ is the head of the church" (Ephesians 5:23). There is no man who has the oversight of Baptist churches.
  • Baptists believe in a free church in a free state. Christ plainly taught that the state and the church each had its own realm when he said, "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things which are God's" (Matthew 22:21 ). While most American churches of Protestant origin have also adopted that view, many European and South American Protestant churches align themselves as a sanctioned state church.
  • Baptists believe strongly in individual accountability to God because the Scriptures clearly teach that "every one of us shall give account of himself to God" (Romans 14:12). Again, most American Protestant denominations have slowly adopted this view, but Luther, Calvin, and others did not, and many European and South American Protestant churches continue to practice formal confession as do Catholics.
  • Baptist people furthermore have always held to believers' baptism. None of the Protestant Reformers held this Bible teaching, and sprinkling rather than immersion is practiced by those churches today.
  • Baptists, on the basis of Scripture, have always held to a regenerate church membership; that is, a membership that is made up only of people who give a credible profession of faith in Christ. There is no automatic or formalistic membership in Baptist churches today, but there is in both Protestant and Catholic churches.

From a practical point of view, we have little in common with Protestants.

  • The Protestant groups look to some human being as their founder, often even taking their name from a man: Luther, Calvin, Knox, Wesley. Here is a historical question worthy of serious investigation: Who was the Baptist founder? It is impossible to find any one man who gave rise to Baptist churches.
  • The creed of Baptists is not the Augsburg Confession, the Canons of Dort, or the Westminster Confession, but the simple Word of God.


  • Baptists have never been linked with Protestants and have never been identified with the Roman Catholic Church. Through the years before and after the Reformation, they have maintained their identity and been faithful to the Scriptures. Real Baptists hold to the plain teaching of Christ and the Apostles. For these God-given doctrines they have been willing to die.

At the time of the Reformation, Baptists were considered by both Protestants and Catholics to be heretics. In Rottenburg in Reformation times there were 900 executions of Baptists in less than ten years. These deaths were often vicious and cruel. The execution of Baptist believer Michael Sateler in 1527 included hanging, having his tongue cut out, having his flesh burned with hot tongs, and then his body hung on the city gate as a warning to other Baptists. His wife and children were drowned, and many other men were beheaded for their Baptist faith ...

... By Protestants following Luther." Source: Here.
 
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Thanks for your responses everyone!

If you are wondering what prompted this question, I read this:

"Baptists are not Protestants but hold tenaciously to the original precepts and practices of Christ and the apostles. Baptists believe the pure Word of God to be sufficient authority on all matters. Baptists reject all human religious traditions and practices that have originated since the time of the apostles. Full historical data immediately refutes the view that there was only one religious group -- the Roman Catholic church -- until the time of Martin Luther. Anyone who claims this simply has not done his homework.

Baptists make no effort to trace a historical succession back to the age of the Apostles. Their only claim is that at every age in church history there have been groups that have held to the same doctrines that Baptists hold today. These groups may or may not have been connected and they have been known by various names.

There were the Montanists (150 A.D.), the Novatians (240 A.D.), Donatists (305 A.D.), Albigenses (1022 A.D.), Waldensians (1170 A.D.), and the name Anabaptists came into prominence just before the time of the Protestant Reformation. In fact, the first use of a form of the Baptist name may be found in a response to the Diet of Speier in 1529, taking action against the Turks and the Lutheran groups who questioned the doctrines of the Catholic Church.

Certain Lutheran princes appeared before this Roman Catholic Diet with a formal written protest against those matters in which the Diet went contrary to the Christian faith as they understood it. This protest was signed by Elector John of Saxony, Margrave George of Brandenburg, Dukes Ernest and Francis of Braunschweig-Luneburg, Landgrave Philip of Hesse, Prince Wolfgang of Anhalt and the representatives of fourteen imperial cities.

Once the Diet's edicts were published, a formal letter of protest by these government authorities was also issued to counter the Church's pronouncement, but they made it clear the did not speak for Baptists. n their written statement, "All Anabaptists and rebaptized persons, male or female, of mature age, shall be judged and brought from natural life to death, by fire, or sword or otherwise, as may benefit the persons, without preceding trial by spiritual judges." The Baptists then did not share in this protest and consequently cannot bear the name "Protestant."

Catholic prelate Stanislaus Hosius spoke of the history of the Baptist movement predating the Lutheran separation by centuries. Pope Paul IV designated Cardinal Hosius as one of the three papal presidents of the famous Council of Trent. Hosius carried on vigorously the work of the counter-reformation. If anyone in post-reformation times knew the doctrines and history of non-Catholic groups, it was Hosius. Cardinal Hosius wrote, "Were it not that the Baptists have been grievously tormented and cut off with the knife during the past 1,200 years, they would swarm in greater number than all the Reformers"

It is also evident that the Baptists were not Protestants because they were fiercely persecuted by the Protestant Reformers and their followers. Uncounted thousands of them lost their goods, their lands, and their lives in these persecutions. Konred Grebel died in prison in 1526. Felix Manz was drowned by the authorities at Zurich in 1527. Noted Baptist leader Baithauser Hubmaier was burned alive at the stake in Vienna March 10, 1528. Three days later his wife was drowned by being thrown over the Danube bridge with a stone tied to her neck. The facts abundantly attest that historically Baptists are not Protestants.

While modern Protestant churches have largely abandoned Catholic doctrine regarding infant baptism, an Earthly head of the church, and other Catholic teachings that Luther and others brought out of the Church with them, Baptists have never believed those things. And there are numerous remnants of Catholic doctrine still sprinkled among Protest denominations.

Doctrinally, Baptists differ even from the modern Lutherian teachings.

  • God's Word alone is sufficient for faith and practice. We read "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine..." (II Timothy 3:16). Various Protestant denominations have creeds, catechisms and assorted doctrinal standards.
  • Baptists believe that Christ and only Christ is the Head of the Church even as the Scripture says, "Christ is the head of the church" (Ephesians 5:23). There is no man who has the oversight of Baptist churches.
  • Baptists believe in a free church in a free state. Christ plainly taught that the state and the church each had its own realm when he said, "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things which are God's" (Matthew 22:21 ). While most American churches of Protestant origin have also adopted that view, many European and South American Protestant churches align themselves as a sanctioned state church.
  • Baptists believe strongly in individual accountability to God because the Scriptures clearly teach that "every one of us shall give account of himself to God" (Romans 14:12). Again, most American Protestant denominations have slowly adopted this view, but Luther, Calvin, and others did not, and many European and South American Protestant churches continue to practice formal confession as do Catholics.
  • Baptist people furthermore have always held to believers' baptism. None of the Protestant Reformers held this Bible teaching, and sprinkling rather than immersion is practiced by those churches today.
  • Baptists, on the basis of Scripture, have always held to a regenerate church membership; that is, a membership that is made up only of people who give a credible profession of faith in Christ. There is no automatic or formalistic membership in Baptist churches today, but there is in both Protestant and Catholic churches.

From a practical point of view, we have little in common with Protestants.

  • The Protestant groups look to some human being as their founder, often even taking their name from a man: Luther, Calvin, Knox, Wesley. Here is a historical question worthy of serious investigation: Who was the Baptist founder? It is impossible to find any one man who gave rise to Baptist churches.
  • The creed of Baptists is not the Augsburg Confession, the Canons of Dort, or the Westminster Confession, but the simple Word of God.


  • Baptists have never been linked with Protestants and have never been identified with the Roman Catholic Church. Through the years before and after the Reformation, they have maintained their identity and been faithful to the Scriptures. Real Baptists hold to the plain teaching of Christ and the Apostles. For these God-given doctrines they have been willing to die.

At the time of the Reformation, Baptists were considered by both Protestants and Catholics to be heretics. In Rottenburg in Reformation times there were 900 executions of Baptists in less than ten years. These deaths were often vicious and cruel. The execution of Baptist believer Michael Sateler in 1527 included hanging, having his tongue cut out, having his flesh burned with hot tongs, and then his body hung on the city gate as a warning to other Baptists. His wife and children were drowned, and many other men were beheaded for their Baptist faith ...

... By Protestants following Luther." Source: Here.
Yep, the One True Church. You'll always run into this. And they can probably trace themselves to the Church at Philadelphia rather than Laodicea. :preach:
 
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twin1954

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Thanks for your responses everyone!

If you are wondering what prompted this question, I read this:

"Baptists are not Protestants but hold tenaciously to the original precepts and practices of Christ and the apostles. Baptists believe the pure Word of God to be sufficient authority on all matters. Baptists reject all human religious traditions and practices that have originated since the time of the apostles. Full historical data immediately refutes the view that there was only one religious group -- the Roman Catholic church -- until the time of Martin Luther. Anyone who claims this simply has not done his homework.

Baptists make no effort to trace a historical succession back to the age of the Apostles. Their only claim is that at every age in church history there have been groups that have held to the same doctrines that Baptists hold today. These groups may or may not have been connected and they have been known by various names.

There were the Montanists (150 A.D.), the Novatians (240 A.D.), Donatists (305 A.D.), Albigenses (1022 A.D.), Waldensians (1170 A.D.), and the name Anabaptists came into prominence just before the time of the Protestant Reformation. In fact, the first use of a form of the Baptist name may be found in a response to the Diet of Speier in 1529, taking action against the Turks and the Lutheran groups who questioned the doctrines of the Catholic Church.

Certain Lutheran princes appeared before this Roman Catholic Diet with a formal written protest against those matters in which the Diet went contrary to the Christian faith as they understood it. This protest was signed by Elector John of Saxony, Margrave George of Brandenburg, Dukes Ernest and Francis of Braunschweig-Luneburg, Landgrave Philip of Hesse, Prince Wolfgang of Anhalt and the representatives of fourteen imperial cities.

Once the Diet's edicts were published, a formal letter of protest by these government authorities was also issued to counter the Church's pronouncement, but they made it clear the did not speak for Baptists. n their written statement, "All Anabaptists and rebaptized persons, male or female, of mature age, shall be judged and brought from natural life to death, by fire, or sword or otherwise, as may benefit the persons, without preceding trial by spiritual judges." The Baptists then did not share in this protest and consequently cannot bear the name "Protestant."

Catholic prelate Stanislaus Hosius spoke of the history of the Baptist movement predating the Lutheran separation by centuries. Pope Paul IV designated Cardinal Hosius as one of the three papal presidents of the famous Council of Trent. Hosius carried on vigorously the work of the counter-reformation. If anyone in post-reformation times knew the doctrines and history of non-Catholic groups, it was Hosius. Cardinal Hosius wrote, "Were it not that the Baptists have been grievously tormented and cut off with the knife during the past 1,200 years, they would swarm in greater number than all the Reformers"

It is also evident that the Baptists were not Protestants because they were fiercely persecuted by the Protestant Reformers and their followers. Uncounted thousands of them lost their goods, their lands, and their lives in these persecutions. Konred Grebel died in prison in 1526. Felix Manz was drowned by the authorities at Zurich in 1527. Noted Baptist leader Baithauser Hubmaier was burned alive at the stake in Vienna March 10, 1528. Three days later his wife was drowned by being thrown over the Danube bridge with a stone tied to her neck. The facts abundantly attest that historically Baptists are not Protestants.

While modern Protestant churches have largely abandoned Catholic doctrine regarding infant baptism, an Earthly head of the church, and other Catholic teachings that Luther and others brought out of the Church with them, Baptists have never believed those things. And there are numerous remnants of Catholic doctrine still sprinkled among Protest denominations.

Doctrinally, Baptists differ even from the modern Lutherian teachings.

  • God's Word alone is sufficient for faith and practice. We read "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine..." (II Timothy 3:16). Various Protestant denominations have creeds, catechisms and assorted doctrinal standards.
  • Baptists believe that Christ and only Christ is the Head of the Church even as the Scripture says, "Christ is the head of the church" (Ephesians 5:23). There is no man who has the oversight of Baptist churches.
  • Baptists believe in a free church in a free state. Christ plainly taught that the state and the church each had its own realm when he said, "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things which are God's" (Matthew 22:21 ). While most American churches of Protestant origin have also adopted that view, many European and South American Protestant churches align themselves as a sanctioned state church.
  • Baptists believe strongly in individual accountability to God because the Scriptures clearly teach that "every one of us shall give account of himself to God" (Romans 14:12). Again, most American Protestant denominations have slowly adopted this view, but Luther, Calvin, and others did not, and many European and South American Protestant churches continue to practice formal confession as do Catholics.
  • Baptist people furthermore have always held to believers' baptism. None of the Protestant Reformers held this Bible teaching, and sprinkling rather than immersion is practiced by those churches today.
  • Baptists, on the basis of Scripture, have always held to a regenerate church membership; that is, a membership that is made up only of people who give a credible profession of faith in Christ. There is no automatic or formalistic membership in Baptist churches today, but there is in both Protestant and Catholic churches.

From a practical point of view, we have little in common with Protestants.

  • The Protestant groups look to some human being as their founder, often even taking their name from a man: Luther, Calvin, Knox, Wesley. Here is a historical question worthy of serious investigation: Who was the Baptist founder? It is impossible to find any one man who gave rise to Baptist churches.
  • The creed of Baptists is not the Augsburg Confession, the Canons of Dort, or the Westminster Confession, but the simple Word of God.


  • Baptists have never been linked with Protestants and have never been identified with the Roman Catholic Church. Through the years before and after the Reformation, they have maintained their identity and been faithful to the Scriptures. Real Baptists hold to the plain teaching of Christ and the Apostles. For these God-given doctrines they have been willing to die.

At the time of the Reformation, Baptists were considered by both Protestants and Catholics to be heretics. In Rottenburg in Reformation times there were 900 executions of Baptists in less than ten years. These deaths were often vicious and cruel. The execution of Baptist believer Michael Sateler in 1527 included hanging, having his tongue cut out, having his flesh burned with hot tongs, and then his body hung on the city gate as a warning to other Baptists. His wife and children were drowned, and many other men were beheaded for their Baptist faith ...

... By Protestants following Luther." Source: Here.
I would agree with the Baptist history in this article and hold that Baptists are not Protestant. There are 3 views of Baptist history: The Spiritual Kinship view, clearly espoused in the above article; The John Smythe view that Baptists were started in England by John Smythe; and the Landmark view that holds that Baptists can trace their direct lineage back to John the Baptist, the "Trial of Blood" is their textbook on Baptist history and they hold that they are the only true church. I am a Baptist because I believe that, for the most part, Baptists hold more Scriptural doctrines and practices than does any other church group or denomination.
 
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“Baptist” is NOT a denomination—it is a category of Christians. It is not a denomination because it is not an organization made up of congregations that are united in their adherence to its beliefs and practices. There are well over 200 Baptist “denominations” in North America alone. Each one is an organization that made up of congregations that are united to some extent in their adherence to its beliefs and practices, and these beliefs and practices vary greatly from Baptist “denomination” to Baptist “denomination.” However, since each local Baptist church is autonomous, the word “denominations” is not a precisely accurate term for these subcategories, but is used for convenience.
I've heard this before with the Church of Christ and I can't buy into it. Denomination....the "nomin" in there refers to the naming of the group. "Baptist" is a name that when used, definitely allows people to distinguish us from, let's say, Catholics. There may be "sub" denominations, but it's definitely a nominative title.
 
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PrincetonGuy

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I've heard this before with the Church of Christ and I can't buy into it. Denomination....the "nomin" in there refers to the naming of the group. "Baptist" is a name that when used, definitely allows people to distinguish us from, let's say, Catholics. There may be "sub" denominations, but it's definitely a nominative title.
Baptist is a nominative title, but it is NOT a denomination any more than “Democrats,” “Republicans,” or “Libertarians” are denominations. They are named groups of people, but they are not organizations made up of congregations that are united in their adherence to its beliefs and practices. Therefore, they are not denominations. I realize that the lexicographers at Oxford differ somewhat from those at Merriam-Webster as to how the word ‘denomination’ is used among literate English-speaking people today, but even the lexicographers at Oxford believe that word ‘denomination,’ when speaking or writing about a religious body, is used among literate English-speaking people in a much more strict sense than you are advocating for in your post. It should also be noted that the lexicographers at Merriam-Webster have, since the publication in 1966 of their flagship dictionary, Webster’s Third New International Dictionary, observed a shift in the use of the word toward an even more strict sense. For documentation, please see the dictionaries published by Merriam-Webster and Oxford.
 
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Baptist is a nominative title, but it is NOT a denomination any more than “Democrats,” “Republicans,” or “Libertarians” are denominations. They are named groups of people, but they are not organizations made up of congregations that are united in their adherence to its beliefs and practices. Therefore, they are not denominations. I realize that the lexicographers at Oxford differ somewhat from those at Merriam-Webster as to how the word ‘denomination’ is used among literate English-speaking people today, but even the lexicographers at Oxford believe that word ‘denomination,’ when speaking or writing about a religious body, is used among literate English-speaking people in a much more strict sense than you are advocating for in your post. It should also be noted that the lexicographers at Merriam-Webster have, since the publication in 1966 of their flagship dictionary, Webster’s Third New International Dictionary, observed a shift in the use of the word toward an even more strict sense. For documentation, please see the dictionaries published by Merriam-Webster and Oxford.
I think you're over analyzing it and I don't agree, but I'll give you your position.
 
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mikedsjr

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I'm curious and have some scenarios, If a person started a church and placed the name Roman Catholic in its name but held opposite views, would they be sued? Probably so

If a person started a church and had the name Baptist in it, but taught everything against orthodox Protestant Christianity(maybe even held Palm reading during service) could they be sued.? Can anyone put Baptist on their sign and start a distortion of the word over time?
 
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Larry Smart

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I'm curious and have some scenarios, If a person started a church and placed the name Roman Catholic in its name but held opposite views, would they be sued? Probably so

If a person started a church and had the name Baptist in it, but taught everything against orthodox Protestant Christianity(maybe even held Palm reading during service) could they be sued.? Can anyone put Baptist on their sign and start a distortion of the word over time?

I suppose anyone could call themselves Baptist. Look at Westboro Baptist Church. I don't know exactly what they are, but they are far from being Baptist.
 
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OzSpen

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Baptist is a nominative title, but it is NOT a denomination any more than “Democrats,” “Republicans,” or “Libertarians” are denominations. They are named groups of people, but they are not organizations made up of congregations that are united in their adherence to its beliefs and practices. Therefore, they are not denominations. I realize that the lexicographers at Oxford differ somewhat from those at Merriam-Webster as to how the word ‘denomination’ is used among literate English-speaking people today, but even the lexicographers at Oxford believe that word ‘denomination,’ when speaking or writing about a religious body, is used among literate English-speaking people in a much more strict sense than you are advocating for in your post. It should also be noted that the lexicographers at Merriam-Webster have, since the publication in 1966 of their flagship dictionary, Webster’s Third New International Dictionary, observed a shift in the use of the word toward an even more strict sense. For documentation, please see the dictionaries published by Merriam-Webster and Oxford.

Oxford dictionaries (online) provides this definition of 'denomination':
Definition of denomination in English:
noun
1 A recognized autonomous branch of the Christian Church:
the Presbyterian community is the second-largest denomination in the country

The dictionaries give the synonyms as:

religious group, sect, Church, cult, movement, faith community, body, persuasion, religious persuasion, communion, order, fraternity, brotherhood, sisterhood, school; faith, creed,
belief, religious belief, religion
rare sodality
1.1 A branch of any religion:
Orthodox Jewish denominations (Oxford dictionaries 2015. S v denomination).

Therefore, even the Oxford dictionaries acknowledge a denomination as an autonomous group of the Christian church with the parallel (synonymous) meaning of religious group, church, movement, religious persuasion, etc.

Based on this definition and synonyms, Baptists are a denomination and that is how they are regarded in my country. There may be Arminians or Calvinists within the Baptist denomination, but that does not prevent them from being identified as Baptists.

Oz
 
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OzSpen

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I'm curious and have some scenarios, If a person started a church and placed the name Roman Catholic in its name but held opposite views, would they be sued? Probably so

If a person started a church and had the name Baptist in it, but taught everything against orthodox Protestant Christianity(maybe even held Palm reading during service) could they be sued.? Can anyone put Baptist on their sign and start a distortion of the word over time?

In Australia, I would be surprised if they would be 'sued' as that is contrary to 1 Corinthians 6. However, there would be a dissociation between regular Baptists and that heretical Baptist church (the example you are suggesting). You possibly know of how Presbyterians and Methodists in the USA have moved away from the evangelical faith into theological liberalism. That has happened for some Baptist churches in the state of Victoria, Australia.

Here in my home state of Queensland, we have core beliefs, practices, and core values that identify Baptist churches as Baptists. See: 'Queensland Baptists: Guidelines for belief and practice'. This document is included online as part of 'Queensland Baptists: About Us'.

Have you read the article in The New York Times, 'Can liberal Christianity be saved?'

Oz
 
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Poor Beggar

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Princeton, that may be true within the academics, but the common person views baptist as a denomination. However the autonomous stance of Baptist churches is probably the result of the academic view.
Yeah, difference between denotation and connotation.
 
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