Australia Enforces $15K Tax Penalty for Parents who Don’t Vaccinate

[Billnew]

I support immunizations, but I also support a parents right to refuse medical care for their child as they see fit.
The parents are the two people that must look out for the child and the best interest of health and welfare for that child.

 

[loveofourlord]

I support immunizations, but I also support a parents right to refuse medical care for their child as they see fit.
The parents are the two people that must look out for the child and the best interest of health and welfare for that child.

And what makes them qualified to determine what is in the childs best interest? Do they have the medical knowledge and such? I always find it funny, a person with zero pilots training wouldn't tell a pilot how to fly the plane they were on, but people who have less then zero knowledge in a subject about medicine feel they are better qualified then the experts on what is or isn't in a childs interest.

Also this isn't about their child, it's about the other children their child may kill through their neglect. Measels doesn't just effect your child, it spreads to everyone elses children, and I've said this over and over, those that defend the right of parents not to vaccinate their children, can they be jailed, or sued, if their refusal to vaccinate their children can be directly linked to the deaths of other children or people?

 

[NightHawkeye]

And what makes them qualified to determine what is in the childs best interest? Do they have the medical knowledge and such? I always find it funny, a person with zero pilots training wouldn't tell a pilot how to fly the plane they were on, but people who have less then zero knowledge in a subject about medicine feel they are better qualified then the experts on what is or isn't in a childs interest.

I find it funny when anyone wants to give absolute control to the government. Correction ... make that terrifying.

You believe the government can safely operate an airline better than private individuals? You might consider the flight safety record in the Soviet Union before answering.

 

[keith99]

I support immunizations, but I also support a parents right to refuse medical care for their child as they see fit.
The parents are the two people that must look out for the child and the best interest of health and welfare for that child.

So you are good with people beating and starving their children?

 

[Armoured]

So you are good with people beating and starving their children?

Well that escalated quickly.

 

[NightHawkeye]

Well that escalated quickly.

I disagree. It took 44 posts.

 

[loveofourlord]

I find it funny when anyone wants to give absolute control to the government. Correction ... make that terrifying.

You believe the government can safely operate an airline better than private individuals? You might consider the flight safety record in the Soviet Union before answering.

The goverment is only enforcing what the doctors are saying, you don't have a right to risk other people's lives, we have laws about everything else thats dangerous, drinking while driving, firing guns haphazardly, inproper food saftey, and none of those compare to the dangers that a out break of many diseases could cause.

 

[NightHawkeye]

The goverment is only enforcing what the doctors are saying, you don't have a right to risk other people's lives, we have laws about everything else thats dangerous, drinking while driving, firing guns haphazardly, inproper food saftey, and none of those compare to the dangers that a out break of many diseases could cause.

In cases of clear and present danger ... I agree.

Vaccinations for most communicable diseases, as largely agreed to earlier in this discussion, do not fall in that category.

 

[loveofourlord]

In cases of clear and present danger ... I agree.

Vaccinations for most communicable diseases, as largely agreed to earlier in this discussion, do not fall in that category.

They arn't? You mean we havn't had 3 majour outbreaks with people sick and a few possible deaths all related to anti vaccination groups in the last few years here in the US alone? Well thats good to kn..oh wait we did. This isn't some hypothetical worry, it's been caused and directly linked to anti vaccination groups.,and of course with many of these diseases they eventually can infect those that actually did their part in being vacinated, and a few children have died from outbreaks.

you have no legs to stand on, all the evidence points to vaccines working and saving lives, wich is obvious to anyone that looks at where outbreaks cluster.

 

[Audacious]

I support immunizations, but I also support a parents right to refuse medical care for their child as they see fit.
The parents are the two people that must look out for the child and the best interest of health and welfare for that child.

You think that doctors know less about medical care than parents? Why should the parent be allowed to risk a child's life when medical professionals do not agree?

People should feel free to get second opinions, but those opinions should happen to agree with 99% of the medical community -- not from your local homeopathic physician.

 

[Green Sun]

People should feel free to get second opinions, but those opinions should happen to agree with 99% of the medical community -- not from your local homeopathic physician.

Bit of an off topic, but homeopathy is such a joke.

I can't actually believe people think this possibly works, a the average dillutions used are so dilluted, the statistical likelyhood of their being ONE MOLECULE of the original substance is next to zero.

When you get to what they call '24X' or '12C', the ratio of water to the original substance is 1:10^24. That's roughly a 60% chance of their being one molecule of the substance left if you stated with one mole of it.

And that's not even the common dilutions, the common ones are 1:10^60 ratio or even 1:10^400 ratio (That's a 10 followed by 400 zeros). At 1:10^60, you'd need to give two billion doses per second to six billion people for 4 billion years to deliver a single molecule of the original material to any patient.

I don't understand why people take most 'alternative' medications seriously, at best they are a placebo. You should NEVER use them as a total replacement for actual medical care, and it definitely wouldn't help against measles.

 

[Glass*Soul]

Bit of an off topic, but homeopathy is such a joke.

I can't actually believe people think this possibly works, a the average dillutions used are so dilluted, the statistical likelyhood of their being ONE MOLECULE of the original substance is next to zero.

When you get to what they call '24X' or '12C', the ratio of water to the original substance is 1:10^24. That's roughly a 60% chance of their being one molecule of the substance left if you stated with one mole of it.

And that's not even the common dilutions, the common ones are 1:10^60 ratio or even 1:10^400 ratio (That's a 10 followed by 400 zeros). At 1:10^60, you'd need to give two billion doses per second to six billion people for 4 billion years to deliver a single molecule of the original material to any patient.

I don't understand why people take most 'alternative' medications seriously, at best they are a placebo. You should NEVER use them as a total replacement for actual medical care, and it definitely wouldn't help against measles.

Yeah, but they vibrate.

 

[NightHawkeye]

They arn't? You mean we havn't had 3 majour outbreaks with people sick and a few possible deaths all related to anti vaccination groups in the last few years here in the US alone? Well thats good to kn..oh wait we did. This isn't some hypothetical worry, it's been caused and directly linked to anti vaccination groups.,and of course with many of these diseases they eventually can infect those that actually did their part in being vacinated, and a few children have died from outbreaks.

you have no legs to stand on, all the evidence points to vaccines working and saving lives, wich is obvious to anyone that looks at where outbreaks cluster.

Noting that it is only a weak argument when one must declare the other side has no legs to stand on rather than simply making the case. Noting also that it doesn't matter how strongly you believe something to be true. If you can't make the argument then your opinion may, in point of fact, be in error.

If my argument has no legs then you shouldn't have any trouble making a convincing case. Give it a shot.

 

[loveofourlord]

Noting that it is only a weak argument when one must declare the other side has no legs to stand on rather than simply making the case. Noting also that it doesn't matter how strongly you believe something to be true. If you can't make the argument then your opinion may, in point of fact, be in error.

If my argument has no legs then you shouldn't have any trouble making a convincing case. Give it a shot.

That requires you to actually be reasonable, I've already pointed out the reason, if multiple deaths and 3 outbreaks in as many years with resugence of whooping cough, measels, and other deadly diseases in the very populations that your defending then then kill and get those not part of that group sick...just what is your defense?

Do you honestly think you have the right to kill my child because you have a mistaken impression that your right to get my child sick overides my right to have him not get sick?

the people like you have KILLED people with your neglect, this isn't some hypothetical situation. before vaccinations most of these disease either killed or left children with issues.

What is your defense? What is your excuse for why you should be allowed to risk children that have nothing to do with you and your ideas on vaccinations?

 

[Armoured]

Bit of an off topic, but homeopathy is such a joke.

I can't actually believe people think this possibly works, a the average dillutions used are so dilluted, the statistical likelyhood of their being ONE MOLECULE of the original substance is next to zero.

When you get to what they call '24X' or '12C', the ratio of water to the original substance is 1:10^24. That's roughly a 60% chance of their being one molecule of the substance left if you stated with one mole of it.

And that's not even the common dilutions, the common ones are 1:10^60 ratio or even 1:10^400 ratio (That's a 10 followed by 400 zeros). At 1:10^60, you'd need to give two billion doses per second to six billion people for 4 billion years to deliver a single molecule of the original material to any patient.

I don't understand why people take most 'alternative' medications seriously, at best they are a placebo. You should NEVER use them as a total replacement for actual medical care, and it definitely wouldn't help against measles.

Someone once pointed out to me that if homeopathy were valid science, with their remedies getting more effective with each dilution, merely swimming in the ocean should cure all known ills.

 

[Armoured]

Bit of an off topic, but homeopathy is such a joke.

I can't actually believe people think this possibly works, a the average dillutions used are so dilluted, the statistical likelyhood of their being ONE MOLECULE of the original substance is next to zero.

When you get to what they call '24X' or '12C', the ratio of water to the original substance is 1:10^24. That's roughly a 60% chance of their being one molecule of the substance left if you stated with one mole of it.

And that's not even the common dilutions, the common ones are 1:10^60 ratio or even 1:10^400 ratio (That's a 10 followed by 400 zeros). At 1:10^60, you'd need to give two billion doses per second to six billion people for 4 billion years to deliver a single molecule of the original material to any patient.

I don't understand why people take most 'alternative' medications seriously, at best they are a placebo. You should NEVER use them as a total replacement for actual medical care, and it definitely wouldn't help against measles.

Please watch this. I promise you'll love it

 

[trunks2k]

Please watch this. I promise you'll love it

I love that video. It's almost verbatim of what goes through my head when I talk to certain people.

 

[LionL]

Please watch this. I promise you'll love it

Ah yes, Tim Minchin the hilarious atheist. Nice to see that Christians find him funny too.

 

[Elliewaves]

Not really a fine; the gov't just won't shell out the money for unvaccinated kids to be in childcare potentially risking the health of other children who might be too young to be vaccinated. Seems reasonable to me. If you don't want to contribute to public health safety or don't want the gov't telling you what to do then don't take gov't money to put your kid in gov't sponsored daycare; go be by yourself and fund it yourself.

 

[outsidethecamp]

Very coercive.