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attacks come before the Blessing

Discussion in 'Spirit-Filled / Charismatic' started by Yitzchak, May 27, 2011.

  1. Yitzchak

    Yitzchak יצחק

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    Tonight I heard it again. I was listening to a sermon online and the Pastor talked about how the devil comes against you in severe attacks when you are moving forward with God. He said that the amount of the attack is related to the amount that we have stepped out for God. The greater the attack , the greater that the blessing that is coming.

    So how about it. Is this biblical ? I know that we are often tested before the blessing comes .

    I have mixed feelings about this. I have heard it preached a hundred times.

    Is it true ?
     
  2. pinkputter

    pinkputter unending love, amazing grace

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    Thank you a million for posting this! I cannot explain to you how evident this is in my life right now. People, friends and mentors, in my life have pointed out to me that what I am going through is indeed an attack, and I agree with them. It's a horrible feeling. It almost feels like criticism or a sign of disapproval from God. But that's what the Enemy would like for you to think and is a bold-face LIE. CS Lewis once said that pain is God's megaphone--but he didn't mean a megaphone of criticism. Maybe God can use the pain that this world inflicts in order to tell us that He is with us in that pain. What a blessing to find Him where we least expect! Pain humbles us, and draws us closer to God. Those 2 things are some of the most important things in life to me, and gives our lives meaning. It is truly a blessing. Does God want us to suffer? No, because he is LOVE.

    One of my favorite quotations is: I asked God for strength and he gave me obstacles so I can rebuild that strength myself.

    I'm not sure how biblical this is, but it's my belief from deep down in my soul that he gives us battles to overcome, to 1. be strong and 2. be able to ENJOY the fruits of that once we ARE strong.
    A reference that is biblical however, is Jer. For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.
    This we can count on.

    To answer your question, "is it true?" I would have to say, yes, people's lives tell us it's true.

    Your post however, is more specific, asking what we have to look forward to . I don't posses psychic abilities, as far as I know, so I can't really answer what "rainbow" we can look forward to after this "storm." We have a limited perspective. But what is truly important isn't what we get out of it, anyway.

    That's like going up to an artist who painted a canvas and saying, "Hey, what does this mean, anyway? I don't give a ---- about you, I wanna know how it affects me. Is the painting about washing dishes?
    And the artist says, "It can be..."

    It's important we don't loose the sight of why we have this faith in the first place. >>>Jesus.
    "You give and take away, but my heart will choose to say, Oh blessed be Your Name."
     
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  3. Faulty

    Faulty bind on pick up Supporter

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    Paul states, "So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand." Romans 7:21

    But I think the preacher was exagerating quite a bit. There's nothing that says, "the greater the attack, the greater that the blessing that is coming" that I'm aware of.
     
  4. pdudgeon

    pdudgeon Legend Supporter

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    but it makes perfect sense.

    the greater the achievement that you are working towards for God's glory, the more the devil will want to upset or stop the progress you are making. his goal after all is to steal, kill, and destroy; so anything that the devil can take away, or put in your path to distract you, or stop your progress entirely is what he is working towards.

    the key to getting thru those tough times is to keep on going one step at a time towards the goal that God has given to you, and remember the words of Psalms 23:

    He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake. yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil; for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me.
    Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of my enemies; thou anointest my head with oil, my cup overflows.
    Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life; and I shall dwell in the house of the Lord forever.

    try telling that to satan and watch him flee! :amen:
     
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  5. Ajax 777

    Ajax 777 God is the Truth, not an opinion. Supporter

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    "For His anger is but for a moment,
    His favor is for a lifetime;
    Weeping may last for the night,
    But a shout of joy comes in the morning."

    - Psalm 30:5
     
  6. xfisherman

    xfisherman Newbie

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    Never heard of this,first time for me.
     
  7. Faulty

    Faulty bind on pick up Supporter

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    Nope. It doesn't make any sense at all.

    Neither you nor the devil knows the future. There is no way you would know that something you are working on will bring God glory to a greater degree than more than anything else. Sounds like pride to me, and why would the devil want to stop that?

    Now if someone wanted to make the case that God will use attacks to bring about His blessings, which is not even close to the same thing, then you might be onto something, in reference to the satanic attacks on Job, Peter, the persecutions on the Church, and even Jesus.
     
  8. pdudgeon

    pdudgeon Legend Supporter

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    but it does make sense.
    if we are given a task to do ( as are all Christians--to go and baptize, etc.) and satan comes against that, then the attacks will come before the blessings. the full blessings of bringing someone to God come in heaven, the earthly satisfaction is but a small part of that. the devil does not know the future, but he is bent on destroying anything that will glorify God.
     
  9. Yitzchak

    Yitzchak יצחק

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    But if the devil has thousands of years of experience in dealing with human behavior and the devil can see things in the Spiritual realm that we cannot. It does seem like the devil , while not all knowing , would know something about where the crucial points of the battle are on the earth.

    The scripture indicates that the devil has an organized kingdom and does not attend to everything personally. If there are ranks of demons which each have their assignments , then it would make sense that some things that we do would challenge their territory.

    One way I picture it working is that demons have assignments and when someone is successful spiritually and let's say five people get healed and five people get saved through a Christian's ministry and then the demons start reporting back in to the demon that presides over that region . After ten demons report in that they got defeated in their assignments , it could result in the demons calling in re enforcements.

    Anyway , my question still is what the scripture says. But I just wanted to weigh in on whether this makes sense or not. I am unclear on why you think it does not make sense. It at least seems possible to me that things could work that way.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2011
  10. Yitzchak

    Yitzchak יצחק

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    My opinion is that most people never personally interact with the devil. The devil is not all knowing or all present.

    We know from scripture that a third of the angels fell with the devil and that there are quite a few angels in number.

    What makes sense to me is that the fallen angles have ranks in the devil's kingdom. Some are ranked higher than other with the devil being at the top of the chain of command.

    So what makes sense to me is that the devil places certain fallen angels over regions or over certain specific assignments. We know that the devil works through strongholds. So for example , the devil assigns fallen angels to work through Universities and in politics and other arenas to re enforce thinking patterns.Thought systems like Communism or even certain religious systems of thought make the devils job easier.

    In other words , the devil does not run himself ragged just randomly doing stuff. he has a strategy and he has millions of fallen angels under his command to help him with that strategy.

    In my view , these fallen angels are assigned to families , churches , cities , schools , etc.

    There is a passage where the demons spirits that the Jewish guys tried to cast out said that they knew Jesus and they knew Paul but they id not know these guys. I figure they knew Paul by reputation. They probably heard back through the demon grapevine that Paul had spoiled whole cities and there were probably thousands of demons displaced either directly or indirectly through the ministry of Paul.

    The apostle Paul may have even gotten a visit from the devil personally.

    Anyway , it makes sense to me that if we poke at the devil's kingdom enough , we stir up a hornet's nest. The devil is not all powerful and so he has to assign his forces to where they are likely to be the most help to his cause.

    We are dealing with intelligent personalities and not just a "force" that operates like gravity. The demonic kingdom makes adjustments to what we do. At least that is the way that I picture it.

    I would imagine that some Christians are puffed up and imagine that thousands of fallen angels are scattering every time they do something. But I don't think that we can rule that out. Sometimes we are in situations where we are a danger to the devil's plans. We have an enemy which tries to stop us by whatever means are at his disposal.
     
  11. paul1149

    paul1149 that your faith might rest in the power of God Supporter

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    Dear Yitzchak,

    Attacks are an integral part of the Christian life during this church age, but I don't think we can reduce satan's activity to a mathematic formula. First, the attacks sometimes come after, not before, the blessing, as the adversary attempts to steal back what was given. This is clearly shown in the place where Jesus likened his generation to a man cleansed of a devil, who then suffered even worse when seven more came back to afflict him. So in general we don't know when satan is going to strike.

    Nor should we disparage any progress we make in the Lord that seems to come without an attack. Studying, praying, receiving revelation, winning someone to the Lord, strengthening others - all may bring progress with no discernible attack involved. Sometimes our biggest hurdle in progressing spiritually is not the devil but ourselves.

    It would seem to make sense that the magnitude of a work would determine the amount of opposition. But then, it may be harder to win one demon-possessed person to the Lord than to hold a meeting and win 100. I don't know that we're equipped to assay these things accurately.

    We are told to expect opposition and suffering, but also overwhelming victory, fruit and glory "always". If we are in the Lord, and in His will, we have no need to fear the devil, and every reason to believe we have complete authority over him when he does rise up. Beyond that, we should probably expect the unexpected, and resolve never to let his threats rob us of our blessed peace in Christ.
     
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  12. Faulty

    Faulty bind on pick up Supporter

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    I never said the devil doesn't attack, but that wasn't the original charge made. Rather, "He said that the amount of the attack is related to the amount that we have stepped out for God." That's a prideful assumption on both how much we perceive the "attack" and how much we imagined we've stepped out for God. It leaves people thinking they are doing something great for God whenever they are opposed in some way, when they really may not be doing any such thing. It's more of a creator of vain imaginations it seels to me.
     
  13. Ajax 777

    Ajax 777 God is the Truth, not an opinion. Supporter

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    I am fairly certain the demons have an (albeit VERY limited)
    ability to see short distances into future events...
    else how do we have such things as spirits of divination?

    How else are they able to delude unwary people with the appearance of things like ESP?

    Now do they see deeply into spiritual things, like what GOD is doing?
    I don't believe so. Not for one minute. But can they see a day or two ahead into mundane human events?
    While there is no direct Scripture stating as much -- a fact which I readily admit --
    you have to at least consider the possibility, for there is not a Scripture stating to the contrary, either.
    This coupled with certain passages like the girl who had the spirit of divination in her
    and followed Paul and Silas around, or the spirit who manifested when Saul consulted the witch at Endor,
    and you have to leave the rest up to faith.

    However, I am just as certain that the only matter these beasts know with certainty the end thereof is their own.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2011
  14. Yitzchak

    Yitzchak יצחק

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    Thank you. This makes sense. It gives me something to think about.
     
  15. Faulty

    Faulty bind on pick up Supporter

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    I'm certain they have access to certain information of things that have yet to come to pass. After all, it is the Lord who allows these lying spirits to deceive people, and He knows the end from the beginning.

    However, I do not believe they have any ability to see in the future on their own, and I believe it was the crucifixion itself that shows this in action.

    You ever wonder why Satan entered Judas to betray Him to the priests, when it was the motive of Satan to prevent the crucifixion? We see this motive of his in Matthew 8:
    "From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised. And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, “Far be it from you, Lord! This shall never happen to you.” But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man."
    Matt 16:21-23
    Satans will was to hinder the crucifixion, because he knew it was at the cross he'd be defeated. So why did he enter Judas to betray Jesus on the feast day? For the same reason the priests DID NOT want to kill Jesus on the Passover. The priests feared the people would revolt against them, stopping the execution, because these were the same people who just praised Him as King just a few days before:
    "Then the chief priests and the elders of the people gathered in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas, and plotted together in order to arrest Jesus by stealth and kill him. But they said, 'Not during the feast, lest there be an uproar among the people.'”
    Matt 26:3-5
    Satan desired to hinder the crucifixion, and planned to use the people to do it. He reasoned as the priests had, that the people would rise up to save Jesus from His execution, but they were both wrong, to the glee of the priests and to the horror of the demons. Had he been able to see the future, and know this plan would backfire to the point of him sealing his own doom, he wouldn't have done what he did on that occasion.

    To go a step further, I believe it coud have been Satan who set it up so that Pilate's wife had tortured dreams (Mt 27:19), to warn Pilate agains killing Jesus, so Pilate would , he reckoned, be pressured by the people to release Jesus on one side, and pressured by his wife to do the same on the other side, because the satanic goal was still to NOT kill Jesus, a reason why he offered Jesus the kingdom of the world without the need for the cross.

    It certainly wasn't God who gave her those dreams as it please God to kill His Son in our place, and Jesus stated it was for that very reason He had come.

    So, if I have no reason to believe Satan can see the future on his own, I have no reason to believe his minions can either, being lesser and fallen spirits.
     
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  16. dkbwarrior

    dkbwarrior Favoured of the Lord

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    This post bears reposting.

    Excellent.

    Peace...
     
  17. Ajax 777

    Ajax 777 God is the Truth, not an opinion. Supporter

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    Indeed, I think this is a sound theory. Well-explained, too. :thumbsup:
     
  18. probinson

    probinson Legend

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    Interesting theory.

    Though I have to wonder, if Satan can't see the future, how did he know he would be defeated at the cross?

    :cool:
     
  19. gratefulgrace

    gratefulgrace Contributor

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    This could be true in some circumstances but I do not believe all. I believe that a great revival and move of God often is followed by great persecution. It happened in the New Testament Book of Acts. Modern day examples are in Cambodia in the late 60's and early 70's. And I believe it has also happened in Timor and I am sure other nations and areas I am unaware of. gg
     
  20. gratefulgrace

    gratefulgrace Contributor

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    yeah I don't believe Satan thwarted it at all as there is a scripture that says as much in 1 Corinthians

    1Cr 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

    [​IMG]1Cr 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
     
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