Atheist group wants memorial crosses removed

[BarbB]

Its hooey untill YOU want something, then "Well its a Christian thing and the majority of the US are Christians so we should get our way."

And are you saying that since theres not enough of them, thier opinions dont matter?

No, their opinions matter, but in this case their opinions are irrelevant compared to the opinions of the troopers' families. If the families want the crosses, that trumps someone who's going to be offended. Otherwise we have tyranny by the minority and it's becoming pretty close to that right now.

 

[Helo]

No, their opinions matter, but in this case their opinions are irrelevant compared to the opinions of the troopers' families.

Why? Why can the families not be happy with annother form of marker?

Otherwise we have tyranny by the minority and it's becoming pretty close to that right now.

**Snort** Yeahhhh suuuuuuure

 

[Links234]

How is respecting all beliefs a form of tyranny? You trying to force your views and wants on others is tyranny.

 

[BarbB]

How is respecting all beliefs a form of tyranny? You trying to force your views and wants on others is tyranny.

How is posting crosses and asking you to tolerate them the way you want Christians to tolerate atheism forcing my views on you. If you don't like it, don't look. :shrug:

 

[Stormy]

I do not think it is a good idea to put 12 foot crosses by a highway. I do not like any crosses by our roads. They seem to be everywhere lately. I am not sure what they are trying to say... But they are a distraction. I think our memorials to the dead belong in our cemeteries.

 

[Ginny]

Why? Why can the families not be happy with annother form of marker?

Some people just want to gripe for the heck of it... nothing better to do, or it is too cold to hug trees this time of year.

In this case, I am assuming that if Buddha, Ronald McDonald, or the Jolly Green Giant was on the side of the road somebody would get mad about it.

What if a big rock or plaque offended someone? Perhaps memorials of any sort should be outlawed.

Yes, that is the answer.

 

[MethodMan]

MichaelFJF: The **ONLY** cross in Arlington is RFK's. It's in his will.

It's the only grave marker in the shape of the cross.


There are MANY grave stones with the Cross insignia engraved as well as:

Argonne Cross
During the period from April 1920 through July 1921, the remains of many servicemen buried in Europe during World War I were disinterred.

The Canadian Cross of Sacrifice at Arlington National Cemetery, Arlington, VA

Thought that needed clarified.

 

[Polycarp1]

Good idea!...and perhaps Bibles and hymnal should be removed from inside the church should a non-believing visitor be offended.

LOL! There is a bit of a problem with your parallel, though. You didn't go out and demand taxes, on penalty of losing property or jail time, to fund putting up that church or putting the Bibles and hymnals in it. I'm supposing that those monuments were put up with state funds, on state land. What we do publicly, as a community, is supposed to stay strictly away from anybody's personal religious beliefs. Not just "non-sectarian" but completely not endorsing anybody's faith. Suppose one of those killed cops was a strong atheist, and left word that he wanted his memorial to be a quote from Ingersoll denouncing religious belief as superstition. Do you want that paid for with your tax money?

On the other hand, though, a lot of this stuff is overdoing the Establishment Clause protections a bit. If a private group erected those crosses, in memory of troopers who died in the line of duty, isn't that a valid piece of free exercise? It feels to me like it is; I'd like to ask one of our non-Christian members who understands First Amendment jurisprudence to react to that. It's much like allowing any group, church or not, to use the amphitheatre area at the public park on a whoever-asks basis.

 

[MichaelFJF]

MethodMan,
Thank you. I ran out of time the other day. Arlington and all the other "public" or "national" cemeteries are full of crosses.

 

[NiteClerk]

I'm surprised they haven't taken issue with some of the names of cities that are too biblical. Lots of cities in California, for example, begin with "San". San Francisco is named after a Saint just like St. Paul was and I think Chorpus Christi means "body of Christ".

Uh Oh. I live in Saint Louis. Which is named after Louis IX of France. And he was made a Saint by a Catholic Pope. Does this mean I'll have to have all my stationary reprinted?

Pax;

BoB

 

[CCGirl]

I can not believe this is an issue!!! Do people have nothing better to do?

Hionestly, who cares what form the memorial is in, it is nice for the families!

 

[eaglex]

I say keep the crosses where they are. After all this is a christian country.

 

[Links234]

I say keep the crosses where they are. After all this is a christian country.

Please, read the rest of the threads in this forum. This is a secular country, the majority happens to be Christian. If it were a "Christian country," we would be a theocracy no different from Iran. The founders made sure that would never happen (you will note that most of them were not Christians).

 

[Polycarp1]

Please, read the rest of the threads in this forum. This is a secular country, the majority happens to be Christian. If it were a "Christian country," we would be a theocracy no different from Iran. The founders made sure that would never happen (you will note that most of them were not Christians).

Two points:

"Christian country" can mean two different things: (1) Country founded on Christian principles and giving a Christian church favored status (the usual meaning of the Religious Right) or (2) Country in which the majority or largest plurality are Christian in belief, as in "Bosnia is the only Moslem country in Europe" which is a demographic rather than a ideological statement.

The beliefs of the Founding Fathers have been hotly debated here and elsewhere. Suffice it to say that they represented a variety of points of view, including several Christian denominations, deism, freethought, and you-name-it. What they were united on, as you rightly note, is that the U.S. government would not give government recognition, authority to make rules, or government support to any one religious body, Christian or otherwise. They or their ancestors had had enough of that in Europe.

And it's our responsibility to preserve the religious freedom they fought to win from those who would seek to impose their own flavor of Christianity on the country by rewriting history to suit themselves.

 

[JPPT1974]

I say keep the crosses where they are. After all this is a christian country.

Yeah I say me too.
Keep the crosses there.
Let me guess...that group will eventually call in the ACLU now won't they?

 

[Gramaic]

A lawsuit filed by the American Atheists in U.S. District Court on Thursday seeks to remove steel crosses that dot roadways throughout Utah and memorialize Utah Highway Patrol troopers who have died in the line of duty.

The suit has drawn harsh reaction from family members of the fallen troopers and promises to be the source of an emotional battle.

The crosses, which stand about 12 feet high and bear the trooper's name and the UHP insignia, were erected starting in 1998 and serve as a memorial for 14 troopers who have died since 1931. About nine of the crosses are on public land and all of them are placed near the spot where the troopers lost their lives.

http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_3271385

This proves that the war on Christianity is no myth! Where's the freedom of speech here?

 

[Links234]

This proves that the war on Christianity is no myth! Where's the freedom of speech here?

 

[BOJAX]

The Athiests want this, the Athiests want that.
Big babies.

Ohhhhhhhhhh a cross scary and offensive.
Dem lousy bums

 

[Links234]

The Athiests want this, the Athiests want that.
Big babies.

Ohhhhhhhhhh a cross scary and offensive.
Dem lousy bums

Have you read this thread? You should try it.

 

[flicka]

I have no problem with crosses, I have a problem with roadside memorials in general. I hate how we, as a society, choose certain accidents, certains ways of death, and decide those people are somehow more worthy of a public memorial than anyone else. It makes NO SENSE AT ALL to memorialize someone killed in a traffic accident than any other victim of accidential death ... and I am not about to suggest public memorials for everyone because we already have places where we memorialize our dead. I'm not heartless but I just don't see the point.