Assembly of God vs. Baptist

[Atlantians]

These replies confirm what I've know for about the last 2 1/2 years, (EDITED OUT BY ATLANTIANS AT REQUEST OF A MODERATOR. Essentially he insulted the inteligence of all Pentacostals saying they were intellectually incapable of reading the KJV or interpreting it properly, his actual insulting words have been thus removed.)

thank you for the confirmation.

I guess Baptists don't either because that is what I am.

Your points are lost and you know it.
Your oppinions are proven false, and you hate that.
Now go and despise Pentecostals with newfound hate and vigour, for you refuse to see truth.

You can not interpret those scriptures without rejecting what they actually say. I can read and interpret the KJV sir, I was raised reading it. And I am generally familiar with Elisabethen English.

2Jude 3
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
KJV

This can't be talking about the finished Bible because Paul wrote this.He was talking to those who had received the Gospel, and telling them to fight for the truth.

I have to take issue with this. Jude may not have had the entire Bible in mind, but this applies to the entire Bible also. All of the faith delivered unto the saints.

 

[Romanseight2005]

I guess Baptists don't either because that is what I am.

Your points are lost and you know it.
Your oppinions are proven false, and you hate that.
Now go and despise Pentecostals with newfound hate and vigour, for you refuse to see truth.

You can not interpret those scriptures without rejecting what they actually say. I can read and interpret the KJV sir, I was raised reading it. And I am generally familiar with Elisabethen English.


I have to take issue with this. Jude may not have had the entire Bible in mind, but this applies to the entire Bible also. All of the faith delivered unto the saints.

I am not sure I understand what you are saying. The faith delivered to the saints, certainly is the Bible today. The Bible is the Word of God. However to say that this scripture is backing up the belief that what he was speaking of here, was the completed Bible, doesn't hold water because the bible wasn't completed yet.

 

[IisJustMe]

As any baptist knows, you'll never find two baptist churches that are the same. Ever. In any convention or fellowship.

That was a bit of an overgeneralization, because while the Souther Baptist Convention is an autonomous organization -- each church runs itself, in other words -- most of the SBC churches are pretty uniform in order of worship, doctrine, biblical literalism, etc. I've attended American Baptist churches, and some independent Baptist congregations, and while they tend to be more diverse, if you care to use that term, in their worship practices, it is rare that you see a hollerin', hand-wavin', tongues-speakin' out of control Baptist church. Please don't take offense at that "out-of-control" remark, because its a personal opinion, not a judgment on any worship style.

 

[IisJustMe]

We lift Holy hands only if they're Holy.

Please take no offense, but when exactly are our hands holy? "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" wrote Paul in Romans 3:23, and he was talking about sinners and saints alike. That phrase irks me, because there is no way we can refer to anything we have as "holy" because we are not, except by that which God imputes to us through the blood of Jesus. But the flesh is still sinful.

 

[IisJustMe]

You defame, attack, and slander all Pentacostals and all Pentacostal Denominations and say you don't want to get into a fight?
They disagree over several rather unimportant Doctrinal issues and you (and the sites you linked) call all of them apostate?
The ones that are important that you listed was being rid of ones sinful nature. That is of course 100% false.
But as for tongues... is that so important as to call an entire group of Christians false and apostate?

And, despite what has been said earlier in the thread, most Baptists are not charismatic, pentecostal, tongues-speakers, or even KJV Only adherents. So ...

... why get your back up to defend the Pentecostals? Not that you shouldn't ... but it leads to the pondering of whether or not you were honest in your post. No offense ... just posting "out loud" ... sort of ...

 

[mesue]

Please take no offense, but when exactly are our hands holy? "...

When they are clean before the Lord.

1Timothy 2:8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

 

[Romanseight2005]

Lifting hands is something I have a strong desire to do, my entire arms in fact. It is a way of reaching up to God, it is also a sign of surrender. Think about it, what do people do when someone points a gun at them, and they surrender, they hold up their arms. God doesn't have to hold a gun to me, I want to surrender all, especially during worship.

 

[Atlantians]

I am not sure I understand what you are saying. The faith delivered to the saints, certainly is the Bible today. The Bible is the Word of God. However to say that this scripture is backing up the belief that what he was speaking of here, was the completed Bible, doesn't hold water because the bible wasn't completed yet.

He was using the verse to say that Prophesy was no longer in existence.
Then to clarify a point of someone else, I pointed out that while the Bible wasn't complete when Jude said that, it does apply to all of the Bible.
The guys argument using Jude to say Prophesy is no longer in existence however, is nonsense.
I was not saying it backed up what he said. I said earlier that Jude has nothing to do with what he said.

And, despite what has been said earlier in the thread, most Baptists are not charismatic, pentecostal, tongues-speakers, or even KJV Only adherents. So ...

... why get your back up to defend the Pentecostals? Not that you shouldn't ... but it leads to the pondering of whether or not you were honest in your post. No offense ... just posting "out loud" ... sort of ...

Because they are brothers in Christ. Enough said.

Lifting hands is something I have a strong desire to do, my entire arms in fact. It is a way of reaching up to God, it is also a sign of surrender. Think about it, what do people do when someone points a gun at them, and they surrender, they hold up their arms. God doesn't have to hold a gun to me, I want to surrender all, especially during worship.

Just make sure you don't lift only one.

 

[2LivIsChrist]

It's kind of funny because I'm attending a Baptist church and AOG church to. One thing that through me off with the AOG church is that they believe in loosing your salvation. I believe in praying in tongues, but I believe they put to much of an emphesis on it and don't use it correctly sometimes.
Some baptist churches aren't as much into the gift of the spirit, such as: tongues, prophesie, healing, etc (not all though). Also, the baptist church i go to now is becoming liberal and seeker friendly and doesn't stick enough to the word or the cross.
I wish I could find a church that has balance and always looks to the word first, and doesn't take anything out of context. Oh and I'm not generalizing any churches, this is how it is where I live.

 

[DeaconDean]

The Assembly of God, is also known as the Church of God. Leastwise here in the South. What you have seen is pretty universal among those churches. They practice the gift of "Speaking in Tongues." They believe that not only are you baptized per se, but that each believer is Baptized in the Holy Spirit and with fire. They used to teach "modest dress" among women, but that is slowly disappearing. Let me say that they are a very "spiritual" type of church. And their doctrine is biblicly based. They are an emotional church also. Unless I'm mistaken, and if I am someone please correct me, the same sort of service can be seen in the Pentecostal Holiness churches. If you have never been exposed to this type of service, speaking in tongues, being hit in the head with the Bible for healing, then it will seen strange. My ex Brother-in-law is Church Of God, and from talking to him, they also deny predestination and election. So in some ways, they are very different from most Baptists.

There is nothing wrong with speaking in tongues. This is a gift from the Holy Spirit. (1 Cor. 12:10) Baptists typicly do practice this, while Church Of God do. Why? I don't know. But it pretty typical in those churches. Search the web for specific denominational beliefs.

Like I said, if you've never been around it, it may seem strange, but the order of the service is not important as the content of the service. Watch what is preached and compare. Since I've been exposed to it, my younger Brother and brother-in-law share this belief, I know what to expect. I'll not speak bad about it either. But I will say this, it's not for me.

God Bless

First off, let me apologize to any AoG members whom I might have offended. My point being, in what the op described, I have seen the same thing going on in most of the CoG churches in my area. And in the area I'm from, some Pentecostal Holiness churches practice the same worship services as the op described.

If my post offended any member of the AoG or CoG members, I truely wish to apologize. No harm or callousness was meant. If it was infered by my post, I offer my sincerest apology. Forgive me please.

 

[DiscipleOfIAm]

Thanks--I do-- and would appreciate it if you all will pray for me too.

Try this guide as well. Some things you may disagree with, but for the most part, this is a good guide in finding a church home.

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/findinga.htm

God Bless!

 

[Romanseight2005]

First off, let me apologize to any AoG members whom I might have offended. My point being, in what the op described, I have seen the same thing going on in most of the CoG churches in my area. And in the area I'm from, some Pentecostal Holiness churches practice the same worship services as the op described.

If my post offended any member of the AoG or CoG members, I truely wish to apologize. No harm or callousness was meant. If it was infered by my post, I offer my sincerest apology. Forgive me please.

For clarification only, in case there was some confusion, AOG is NOT Holiness Pentacostal. AOG does not believe that you are immediately made sinless when you are converted.

 

[Romanseight2005]

As a general rule the teachings of the AOG is legalistic bondage. It has been a while since I had any dealings with them but IIRC they teach perfectionism and entire sanctification. They teach that a person can be without sin in this life. I wouldn't reccomend attending any of their churches.

You are mixing up AOG with Holiness Pentacostals. They are not the same at all.

 

[JPPT1974]

It's kind of funny because I'm attending a Baptist church and AOG church to. One thing that through me off with the AOG church is that they believe in loosing your salvation. I believe in praying in tongues, but I believe they put to much of an emphesis on it and don't use it correctly sometimes.
Some baptist churches aren't as much into the gift of the spirit, such as: tongues, prophesie, healing, etc (not all though). Also, the baptist church i go to now is becoming liberal and seeker friendly and doesn't stick enough to the word or the cross.
I wish I could find a church that has balance and always looks to the word first, and doesn't take anything out of context. Oh and I'm not generalizing any churches, this is how it is where I live.

Well all church denominationals aren't the same my friend
They have different set of ways and rules
In which that they are run!

 

[DeaconDean]

For clarification only, in case there was some confusion, AOG is NOT Holiness Pentacostal. AOG does not believe that you are immediately made sinless when you are converted.

Sis, I already apologized for my oversight. How many times do I have to say that the same similarities in the worship service, I have personally seen. I did not say their doctrines were the same, but the speaking in tongues, arm waving, running up and down the asides, shouting, etc, I have seen in both.

 

[Romanseight2005]

As I said, I was just clarifying because I couldn't tell from your post if you knew that or not. It wasn't mentioned. I wasn't offended, I just wanted to make it clear since your post wasn't the only one that I was referring to. Other posters seemed to be confusing the two. There are such magnanimous differences between Holiness Pentacostals, and AOG that I really didn't want anyone who might be reading this thread to misunderstand.

 

[mlqurgw]

You are mixing up AOG with Holiness Pentacostals. They are not the same at all.

I would refer you to my post #18 and the link there. While they do not claim to believe in perfectionism they certainly teach it at a doctrine of the denomination.

 

[Romanseight2005]

I went to an AOG church and my son attends an AOG school. They absolutely do not believe in instant sanctification, or that one is sinless upon conversion. In fact one of the first sermons our pastor preached was on this very issue. They are also not legalistic. They are very biblical. They do not wink at sin, but neither do they expect perfection, or withold forgiveness. They believe that the believer should strive to maintain a life of purity, but that we are still in old wineskins. I researched the AOG doctrine very thouroughly before we attended this church.

 

[Romanseight2005]

http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/Statement_of_Fundamental_Truths/sft_full.cfm#9 their teaching on sanctification:

I went to the site. First of all sanctification, in the way that it is used, (as per the scriptures they show to back up their belief) simply means that you are set apart. I can quote this from the concordance if you don't belive this. God tells us to be set apart throughout scripture. Set apart does not mean that you do not interact with the world, but that you are God's child, and as such set apart for him. They say you can be empowered by the Holy Spirit to live a holy life. This does not mean that you will never sin. It simply means that you are no longer characterized by sin. In case you didn't notice, all that they listed is backed up with scripture. They are trying to abide by the Word of God, not alter it, or omit any part of it.

 

[mlqurgw]

I went to the site. First of all sanctification, in the way that it is used, (as per the scriptures they show to back up their belief) simply means that you are set apart. I can quote this from the concordance if you don't belive this. God tells us to be set apart throughout scripture. Set apart does not mean that you do not interact with the world, but that you are God's child, and as such set apart for him. They say you can be empowered by the Holy Spirit to live a holy life. This does not mean that you will never sin. It simply means that you are no longer characterized by sin. In case you didn't notice, all that they listed is backed up with scripture. They are trying to abide by the Word of God, not alter it, or omit any part of it.

I have done some reasearch into them myself. Unfortunately all of my reasearch is on the hard drive of my computer that crashed.
As far as the word sancitify goes it has basically three meanings in the Scriptures; to sepreate as holy, to declare holy and to make holy. If I remember my reasearch all of the Charasmatic/Pentecostals originated from the Azuza Stret revivals back in the early 1900's in particular and Wesley's Methodism in general. I am old enough to remember when they did actually teach perfectionism and were called holy rollers. As far as the legalism goes if they give you a set of rules to live by, which all of the AOG I have ever known do, they are legaists.