"Ask the Pastor" radio show with Gregory Dickow

Tzaousios

Αυγουστινιανικός Χριστιανός
Dec 4, 2008
8,504
609
Comitatus in praesenti
Visit site
✟26,729.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Tzaousios you've made your point.

I had the same problem on another thread.

My apologies to all in the thread for the multiple posts. The forum went down with a "time out" right when I posted. I guess all of these happened when I tried to refresh the page! :D

That being said, I would still like it if katholikos would address my original post #103. Thanks.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Why read the Catechism when we have the scriptures we can read?

As a general rule, and with regard to knowing God's will for us, you are right. HOWEVER, in this particular situation we have a badly misinformed (and apparently confused) poster claiming to be stating what the Roman Catholic Church's official position is. That is quite a different matter from exchanging opinions about which church is right or what the Bible means, etc.--which is what we usually do around here.

Since he doesn't know what the RCC teaches, it makes perfect sense for Catholic posters to suggest he (or anyone, for that matter) check with the Catechism, since it does state, in capsulated form, the official Roman Catholic positions on most doctrinal matters.
 
Upvote 0

MrPolo

Woe those who call evil good + good evil. Is 5:20
Jul 29, 2007
5,871
766
Visit site
✟17,196.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
Why should anyone have to go to a secular website to get understanding for what is stated in God's word?
I don't know what secular site you mean instead of the Bible. But you only have to use the Bible to realize that the word "until" (heos hou in Greek) only necessarily means "up to that point" rather than "but not afterward." For example:
In fact, this is the same way heos hou continues the action of a number of instances in the LXX. For example, in Genesis 8:5 it states:
The water decreased steadily UNTIL [heos hou] the tenth month; in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, the tops of the mountains became visible.​
Obviously, heos hou does not intend to cease the action of the main clause (“the water decreased steadily”), rather it allows that the water continued to decrease even after the tenth month. Otherwise, the earth would still be flooded.

Another example is 2 Samuel 6:23:
Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL [heos hou] the day of her death.​
Obviously, heos hou does not intend to say that Michal had children after her death, and thus we describe such cases as heos hou continuing the action of the main clause (“Michal...had no child”).

We also have heos hou appearing in more poetical types of passages, such as the Psalms and Song of Solomon. For examples, Psalm 72:7 (LXX is 71:7):
In his days may the righteous flourish, And abundance of peace UNTIL [heos hou] the moon is no more.​
Certainly, peace will not end when the moon is no more, rather, it will continue just as tranquil after the moon ceases its existence.​
Credit.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Pastor Dickow did address this issue, as stated in the second post when he asserted Mary "absolutely" had children.
Ahhh. Does it really matter whether she did or didn't?
 
Upvote 0

katholikos

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2008
3,631
439
United States
✟6,027.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
.

A quote from THIS LINK :


There are some very common objections to the belief that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus. The first considers the "brothers" of Jesus from the Gospels.

Mt 12:46-50; Mk 3:31; Lk 8:19

While he was still speaking to the crowds, his mother and his brothers (adelphoi) appeared outside, wishing to speak with him. (Someone told him, "Your mother and your brothers (adelphoi) are standing outside, asking to speak with you.") But he said in reply to the one who told him, "Who is my mother? Who are my brothers (adelphoi)?" And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers (adelphoi). For whoever does the will of my heavenly Father is my brother (adelphos), and sister (adelpha), and mother."

Mk 6:3

Is he not the carpenter, the son of Mary, and the brother (adelphos) of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters (adelphai) here with us?

First it is important to note that the Bible does not say that these "brothers and sisters" of Jesus were children of Mary.

Second, the word for brother (or sister), adelphos (adelpha) in Greek, denotes a brother or sister, or near kinsman. Aramaic and other Semitic languages could not distinguish between a blood brother or sister and a cousin, for example. Hence, John the Baptist, a cousin of Jesus (the son of Elizabeth, cousin of Mary) would be called "a brother (adelphos) of Jesus." In the plural, the word means a community based on identity of origin or life. Additionally, the word adelphos is used for (1) male children of the same parents (Mt 1:2); (2) male descendants of the same parents (Acts 7:23); (3) male children of the same mother (Gal 1:19); (4) people of the same nationality (Acts 3:17); (5) any man, a neighbor (Lk 10:29); (6) persons united by a common interest (Mt 5:47); (7) persons united by a common calling (Rev 22:9); (8) mankind (Mt 25:40); (9) the disciples (Mt 23:8); and (10) believers (Mt 23:8). (From Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Thomas Nelson, Publisher.)

A second objection to Mary's virginity arises from the use of the word, heos, in Matthew's gospel.

Mt 1:25

He (Joseph) had no relations with her until (heos) she bore a son, and he named him Jesus.

The Greek and the Semitic use of the word heos (until or before) does not imply anything about what happens after the time indicated. In this case, there is no necessary implication that Joseph and Mary had sexual contact or other children after Jesus.

A third objection to the perpetual virginity of Mary arises from the use of the word, prototokos, translated "first-born" in Luke's gospel.

Lk 2:7

(Mary) gave birth to her firstborn son (prototokos). She wrapped him in swaddling clothes and laid him in a manger ...

The Greek word prototokos is used of Christ as born of Mary and of Christ's relationship to His Father (Col 1:25). As the word does not imply other children of God the Father, neither does it imply other children of Mary. The term "first-born" was a legal term under the Mosaic Law (Ex 6:14) referring to the first male child born to Jewish parents regardless of any other children following or not. Hence when Jesus is called the "first-born" of Mary it does not mean that there were second or third-born children
 
Upvote 0
M

MamaZ

Guest
I don't know what secular site you mean instead of the Bible. But you only have to use the Bible to realize that the word "until" (heos hou in Greek) only necessarily means "up to that point" rather than "but not afterward." For example:
In fact, this is the same way heos hou continues the action of a number of instances in the LXX. For example, in Genesis 8:5 it states:
The water decreased steadily UNTIL [heos hou] the tenth month; in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, the tops of the mountains became visible.
Obviously, heos hou does not intend to cease the action of the main clause (“the water decreased steadily”), rather it allows that the water continued to decrease even after the tenth month. Otherwise, the earth would still be flooded.

Another example is 2 Samuel 6:23:
Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL [heos hou] the day of her death.
Obviously, heos hou does not intend to say that Michal had children after her death, and thus we describe such cases as heos hou continuing the action of the main clause (“Michal...had no child”).


We also have heos hou appearing in more poetical types of passages, such as the Psalms and Song of Solomon. For examples, Psalm 72:7 (LXX is 71:7):
In his days may the righteous flourish, And abundance of peace UNTIL [heos hou] the moon is no more.
Certainly, peace will not end when the moon is no more, rather, it will continue just as tranquil after the moon ceases its existence.

Credit.
:confused: And this explains it how? For up until or until usually means just that. And since Jesus was born I would say that Joseph did not know her until after the fact. Now had Jesus not been born then this explaination would fit better.. I was single until I married.
 
Upvote 0
C

Cross Reference

Guest
I don't know what secular site you mean instead of the Bible.

Whatever site it was to posted up. That is what I mean. I have no interest in reading the opinion of any CC, which I consider secular in thought and practice..

"Sola Scripture" and any writings that agree with it is found the true Church of Jesus Christ. Do you have a heart for that understanding?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
:confused: And this explains it how? For up until or until usually means just that. And since Jesus was born I would say that Joseph did not know her until after the fact. Now had Jesus not been born then this explaination would fit better.. I was single until I married.
I believe what is most important is that JESUS was the only Begotten Son of God not whether the woman Mary had more offspring or not.

Nowhere can I find where Jesus would be the only offspring from the woman that would bare Him. But, I would be interested to know if there is someplace in the Bible that mentions where Jesus would be the only offspring of that woman [in this case Mary]. Thoughts.

#1080 used 97 times in 65 verses in ISA interlinear [105 times in 65 verses KJV Concordance]

Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software

Hebrew 1:5 For to whom He said at anytime of the Messengers 'Son of Me Thou art, I today have begotten/generated/gegennhka <1080> (5758) Thee' and again 'I shall be to him into a Father and He shall be to me into a Son' [Psalm 2:7, Acts 13:33]

Hebrews 1:5 tini gar eipen pote twn aggelwn uioV mou ei su egw shmeron gegennhka se kai palin egw esomai autw eiV patera kai autoV estai moi eiV uion

gegennhka <1080> (5758) This form used 3 times in NT. Acts 13:33, Hebrew 1:5, 5:5.
 
Upvote 0
C

Cross Reference

Guest
How about the most obvious objection?--

Where do you come up with the miracle that made Mary back into a woman whose physical properties were the same as a woman who had never had sex? How and when, exactly, did God do this?

You want an answer to that? Answer this one, which should answer yours: How do account for her conceiving without a man, Hmmm?

BTW, Why would that have be important since it is the first to open the womb that belongs to God and this case, it had to be of sinless seed, only God could provide..
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
You want an answer to that? Answer this one, which should answer yours: How do account for her conceiving without a man, Hmmm?
THAT I account for by referring to the Bible where it is recorded. In the case of a woman giving birth but remaining a BIOLOGLICAL virgin, however, we have something that no one seems willing to explain. Yet they profess to believe it.
 
Upvote 0

katholikos

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2008
3,631
439
United States
✟6,027.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
How about the most obvious objection?--

Where do you come up with the miracle that made Mary back into a woman whose physical properties were the same as a woman who had never had sex? How and when, exactly, did God do this?

Simple: We don't. What you have described is not a part of the Dogma of Mary being ever-virgin. The state of her body is not something that has been defined by the Church - although it is speculated upon by many theologians.

Besides, what does THAT have to do with the simple fact that Jesus is the only child she gave birth to? No one in this thread said anything about what you have described.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
THAT I account for by referring to the Bible where it is recorded. In the case of a woman giving birth but remaining a BIOLOGLICAL virgin, however, we have something that no one seems willing to explain. Yet they profess to believe it.
I thought I would start a poll thread on the subject of Mary having children after Jesus was born......:)

http://www.christianforums.com/t7400512/
Did Jesus have brothers and sisters born of Mary
 
Upvote 0
C

Cross Reference

Guest
THAT I account for by referring to the Bible where it is recorded. In the case of a woman giving birth but remaining a BIOLOGLICAL virgin, however, we have something that no one seems willing to explain. Yet they profess to believe it.

Again, why not? Isn't God Good? Can't you even suppose God's graciousness to Joseph? Can you reason at least that much out when reading the account?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums