Ask God a question

[Whisper of Hope]

You know, this really doesn't take 10 pages to answer. Although the people here have done an excellent job in doing so. If you just looked again at that passage I linked you on page 1, the answer is plain and simple. God does not reveal himself to you on your terms. He reveals himself to you on his terms. Simply repeating yourself does not change this.

Good post.

 

[Whisper of Hope]

It is quite clear you are the stubborn one here. We have given an abundance of feedback, and you throw it aside because you insist on petty questions of "What polar direction am I facing?" Even your response here ignores what has been said. Fortunately, God is quite patient.

That's what I think, too.

 

[Whisper of Hope]

I personally think that you are running against the wind. You are wasting your time and everyone else's time by your bantering about God not being there all the while you are refusing to do things His way and don't really want to prove He is there. You just want to say to a few people, tell me the answer to my question, and that could determine if there is a God. You're told, God doesn't play games.

But wait! You say you want to play not only one guessing game (which you've been told God doesn't play), but your plan is to play another and another. I know of one man who played a game with God. He put out a fleece, and God answered him--twice. However, God had told him to do something so, to be sure it was God, he tested. However, he already knew there was a God, so this was a test of "did you speak to me" and not "are you there?"

We Christians can hear from God. Most people call it their conscience speaking to them. But unfortunately, being human, we have our own voice, and being human and willful, our voice tends to drown out God's voice. It is only with prayer and fasting that we can be sure which voice it is. So what you're asking these mortal men to do is to pray and fast to answer your first question. Then pray and fast to answer your second question. Then pray and fast to answer a third, and fourth and... where does this end? I'm not willing to do that though I know God would give me the answer.

Why, you ask, would I not be willing to do that? I would not because you are playing a game I don't want to be involved in. I have to work, so fasting is hard when I have to work. I have other responsibilities than you, so fasting is hard to do. And you ask me to do it for a game? God doesn't play games, but I could ask Him to make an exception for me (or you as the case might be). He might. Am I willing to fast to ask Him to play a game which He doesn't do? That seems like a circular motion (similar to flushing the toilet). It also seems somewhat disrespectful to ask Him to do something He doesn't do. So I think I'll wait until it is something I need rather than a game you want to play.

So with mortal man who continually fails, you are going to trust mortal man's word from God to be infallable? Or if it is not and mortal man's hearing is not tuned right with your every question, then there is no God? Why would an infinitive God play your mortal game?

I do not believe any of the gods from ancient times (who were not god at all but demons playing God) would play your game. They would scoff at you. And you're asking the one true God to play this game? How ludicrous!

To me, the issue is this:

1) You don't want an answer.
2) You want to mock God.
3) You want to come to God on your terms, not His.
4) You are not willing to give God a chance to prove anything His way.
5) You selectively respond to people but not everyone. By doing so, you again, don't give God a chance. You lay aside reality (first responders are not always the best trained), and you keep insisting that, if God doesn't do for you what He doesn't do, then He isn't there. Wow!
6) Although you've been told how God acts (i.e. He doesn't play games), you still insist that, if He doesn't play your games, He's not there. Many of us have told you that God doesn't play games. So if God doesn't play games, how can you base His existence on playing games?


This is the third, and last time, I will ask this question. If someone says that you're facing a direction you are facing, and they're right, what are you going to do? Idolize that person? Think that person has the right God? Will you listen to them and take their advice wholly? Or will you think, out of N, NE, E, SE, S, SW, W, NW that they just got lucky?

Let me warn you, if your response is "further testing," then God won't answer you in the beginning. He might tolerate and therefore answer your first question, but He doesn't play games. God doesn't even answer us, His children, more than once! Why would he play games with YOU?

Many Christians have told you that God doesn't play games. And then you want to base His existence on playing games? Do you not see this as ridiculous? Do you not realize that God knows your intent?

I see it as more. You are trying to test God by using mortal man in a way that God refuses to play. Therefore, you have created a game that God doesn't play, want to test your game on mortal, fallable man, and then said, "God doesn't exist."

And if He were to play it once with you and show you an answer to a question, you want to play again and again and again until the one responding fails so you can prove that God doesn't exist. But you would only be proving that man makes errors not that God doesn't exist. Your test, therefore, is ridiculously way too simple and way too fallable for God to play.

Your goal, therefore, is to prove God doesn't exist rather than to seek Him. And you want to shame a person who fails to hear God. But we know we all misunderstand Him at times so why would we, mortals, play?

If you were really seeking Him, he would show Himself to you. But you are not. You have found one more way to deny Him because this isn't your first time. Here's the point: God says that you should deny yourself and follow Him not deny Him and follow yourself. So you're entirely backwards in your thinking.

Yes, God can answer, but you want to banter with people who just want to talk. You don't want an answer. If you did want an answer, you'd answer all responders in hopes one had your answer.

I highly doubt God will ever answer you in this question. Try asking a harder question that will be the only question you ask. Agree to some terms, and then see if He answers. God doesn't play your type of game from people who are not really seeking Him.

But you won't do as I said because it's your way or the highway. Therefore, you're not really seeking Him. You just want to play games. God doesn't play games!

Well said, sister. Amen.

 

[Whisper of Hope]

A good quote to show Cieza at this point is Genesis 6:3

Then the LORD said, “My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal ; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”

You have just one lifetime to get it sorted Cieza, don't waste it.

He could die today and all of his chances would be gone. 2 Corinthians 6:2 makes it clear that TODAY is the day of salvation. He may not have a tomorrow. I said a lot more about this in one of my previous posts a couple of pages back (here's the link).

 

[Cieza]

And do you know why that is? It is because you aren't listening to what Jesus is telling you. He is telling you to stop asking such a dumb question and get to business. Are you going to obey Him or not?

Jesus should be smart enough to know that no questions in pursuit of Christianity should be deemed as dumb. Studies have shown that telling a person they are asking a dumb question discourages that person from asking further questions. Even my professors in college would clearly said, "no question you ask will be considered as stupid".

 

[Hakan101]

Jesus should be smart enough to know that no questions in pursuit of Christianity should be deemed as dumb. Studies have shown that telling a person they are asking a dumb question discourages that person from asking further questions. Even my professors in college would clearly said, "no question you ask will be considered as stupid".

The difference is we did not simply dismiss this as a dumb question when you asked. We've given you 10 pages of why this is the wrong way to approach God. But you still ask when you know it's wrong. Therefore, it's a dumb question because you're trying to test God, even though you know he commanded you not to.

So now that you know this, I suggest you do away with that approach and start actually pursuing Christianity.

 

[Cieza]

The difference is we did not simply dismiss this as a dumb question when you asked. We've given you 10 pages of why this is the wrong way to approach God. But you still ask when you know it's wrong. Therefore, it's a dumb question because you're trying to test God, even though you know he commanded you not to.

So now that you know this, I suggest you do away with that approach and start actually pursuing Christianity.

How can I test something that doesn't even appear to exist?

If I am to pursue something which suggests that a fully omniscient and omnipotent being exists, I would first like to have a good reason to believe such a being exists. And I'm not talking about any perceived fringe benefits, but what is the direct advantage of believing something exists when all observable evidence suggests it doesn't exist. The only reason I can think of is to know what it feels like when one lies to his/herself.

 

[razeontherock]

That is not a benefit - so you can know you are on the wrong track

 

[Hakan101]

How can I test something that doesn't even appear to exist?

As we have explained before, you can't. God will not respond to your testing, since he commanded no one may test him. Instead you will have to put your faith in God and seek him on his terms. Insisting that you be able to test him does not change this.

If I am to pursue something which suggests that a fully omniscient and omnipotent being exists, I would first like to have a good reason to believe such a being exists. And I'm not talking about any perceived fringe benefits, but what is the direct advantage of believing something exists when all observable evidence suggests it doesn't exist. The only reason I can think of is to know what it feels like when one lies to his/herself.

Here you have put up another straw man. We have explained to you in numerous threads before, how God is omniscient and omnipotent, and the evidence he gives us.

As for "advantages of believing", here you still don't seem to understand God is far bigger than the box you try to place him in. The idea that he provides "advantages" for us is an overwhelming understatement.

 

[oi_antz]

Jesus should be smart enough to know that no questions in pursuit of Christianity should be deemed as dumb. Studies have shown that telling a person they are asking a dumb question discourages that person from asking further questions. Even my professors in college would clearly said, "no question you ask will be considered as stupid".

I doubt that you would stop asking questions. You asked Him a question, He responded, you didn't listen. Simple.

 

[oi_antz]

He could die today and all of his chances would be gone. 2 Corinthians 6:2 makes it clear that TODAY is the day of salvation. He may not have a tomorrow. I said a lot more about this in one of my previous posts a couple of pages back (here's the link).

That is completely correct, a very well researched post. Thank you for the effort you put into that, it must have taken quite some time to assemble those quotes. Shame it is wasted on Cieza, he is too lazy to read the bible.

Cieza, WhisperofHope made a very clear observation about you that you need to take seriously:

I don't think, from what I've read in his posts, that the OP is willing to believe but rather is looking for excuses to justify his unbelief. However, the OP needs to realize that G-d knows his heart and he isn't fooling Him one bit.

You need to concede to God. That means you must decide that whatever God tells you is true. Currently you are calling God a liar because you don't believe what He tells you. If you want to know God, then it is a very simple procedure, and it was exactly the same for me. This is how to do it:

1) Admit that you don't know anything valuable about God, and the only way to learn anything valuable about God is to learn from Him. Pray to Him (the omniscient omnipotent king and ultimate judge). Give Him the respect He deserves as best you can.
2) Accept that God will speak to you when you read the bible. This means you must believe what the bible says. Give Him one chance to prove that He speaks through the bible, ask Him a question, believe that He will answer it and then read.
3) When you are ready to believe everything the bible says, open it and read it, keep reading until God speaks to you because He will answer all your questions and you won't need to keep hounding us for answers. Don't get hung up on things you don't understand, but instead just read and read and read until God shows you something you didn't know before.

Simple really. All you need to do is bend your knee. God won't close the door to you if you are prepared to esteem Him above everyone and your self. Currently it is you who is closing the door to God because you won't believe what He says, both through the bible and through His people.

I'm sure you have much better questions for the creator of time and space than what polar direction you are in. Ask Him, seek the answer in the bible and trust that He will keep His promise. Whatever it is that keeps you from believing the bible is not worth hanging on to.

 

[oi_antz]

How can I test something that doesn't even appear to exist?

Considering the variety of who has responded on this thread, God does appear to exist. Most likely you don't recognize Him because you are looking for a purple unicorn.

If I am to pursue something which suggests that a fully omniscient and omnipotent being exists, I would first like to have a good reason to believe such a being exists.

Why is that so important to you? Why not just accept that there is apparently a spiritual entity who claims to have created you and claims to evaluate your life when it is over. Why not take the opportunity He has given you to learn how you can live in a way that pleases Him? God hates sin, the only way to please Him is to have Him come and "make His home with you" that way you will always be walking the straight and narrow because He will always rebuke you when you need it.

And I'm not talking about any perceived fringe benefits, but what is the direct advantage of believing something exists when all observable evidence suggests it doesn't exist.

The observable evidence actually suggests that He does exist. It is just that you refuse to acknowledge a crucial piece of evidence - that which has been preserved for us in the Holy Bible. Do you know how hard it has been to preserve that information? Think about why the dead sea scrolls were hidden. For three centuries Christians were persecuted. - You go and write it off as a fairy tale? The man who never put a foot wrong was crucified and there has been an attempt to cover it up? That is downright rude. No wonder God gave Him the keys to death and hades.

The only reason I can think of is to know what it feels like when one lies to his/herself.

No. Truth is an absolute entity. This is why there is agreement among Christians, because we listen to God and we listen to each other. By repenting, accepting when we are wrong we grow into a solid disciple of Jesus Christ by remaining totally honest. The question is "Am I right or wrong"? Obviously there will be some people who struggle to repent, they will distort your perception of Christian harmony. The only way you can recognize the truth then is to know it for yourself. You need to ask God to show you the truth, I explained how to do that in a previous post.

Anyway, you mentioned that you believe Christians are lying to themselves - care to explain why?

 

[oi_antz]

As for "advantages of believing", here you still don't seem to understand God is far bigger than the box you try to place him in.

So true.

 

[Whisper of Hope]

That is completely correct, a very well researched post. Thank you for the effort you put into that, it must have taken quite some time to assemble those quotes. Shame it is wasted on Cieza, he is too lazy to read the bible.

Cieza, WhisperofHope made a very clear observation about you that you need to take seriously:

You need to concede to God. That means you must decide that whatever God tells you is true. Currently you are calling God a liar because you don't believe what He tells you. If you want to know God, then it is a very simple procedure, and it was exactly the same for me. This is how to do it:

1) Admit that you don't know anything valuable about God, and the only way to learn anything valuable about God is to learn from Him. Pray to Him (the omniscient omnipotent king and ultimate judge). Give Him the respect He deserves as best you can.
2) Accept that God will speak to you when you read the bible. This means you must believe what the bible says. Give Him one chance to prove that He speaks through the bible, ask Him a question, believe that He will answer it and then read.
3) When you are ready to believe everything the bible says, open it and read it, keep reading until God speaks to you because He will answer all your questions and you won't need to keep hounding us for answers. Don't get hung up on things you don't understand, but instead just read and read and read until God shows you something you didn't know before.

Simple really. All you need to do is bend your knee. God won't close the door to you if you are prepared to esteem Him above everyone and your self. Currently it is you who is closing the door to God because you won't believe what He says, both through the bible and through His people.

I'm sure you have much better questions for the creator of time and space than what polar direction you are in. Ask Him, seek the answer in the bible and trust that He will keep His promise. Whatever it is that keeps you from believing the bible is not worth hanging on to.

Well said, brother. And that post did take me quite some time to write.

G-d bless you.

 

[Whisper of Hope]

How can I test something that doesn't even appear to exist?

If I am to pursue something which suggests that a fully omniscient and omnipotent being exists, I would first like to have a good reason to believe such a being exists. And I'm not talking about any perceived fringe benefits, but what is the direct advantage of believing something exists when all observable evidence suggests it doesn't exist. The only reason I can think of is to know what it feels like when one lies to his/herself.

As I mentioned in my previous post here, G-d has already proven Himself through creation (Romans 1:18-23), through the Scriptures (2 Timothy 3:15-17), and through His Son, Jesus Christ (Philippians 2:5-11). His nature and character are described throughout the Scriptures. For example, Scripture tells us that He is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, infinite, eternal, incomprehensible, unequaled, holy, perfect, almighty, absolute, and unchanging. Scripture also tells us that G-d is truth, good, love, gracious, merciful, long-suffering, forgiving, and He rewards those who seek Him. However, He will only give grace to the humble and not to the proud (Proverbs 3:34; James 4:6). If you honestly want to seek G-d than you can't come to Him in pride and self-righteousness. You will have to seek Him with all of your heart and soul (Deuteronomy 4:29). If you do this, He promises you will find Him when you seek Him with all of your heart (Jeremiah 29:13). If you refuse than there will be dire, eternal consequences for you. Whether you believe this or not doesn't change its reality.

You must understand that after you die, you will stand before G-d in judgement (Hebrews 9:27; Revelation 20:11-15), and when you do, you will have absolutely no excuse whatsoever for not believing (Romans 1:18-23) and for not accepting forgiveness for his sins through His Son, Jesus Christ (John 3:16; 3:18; 3:36; 14:6; Acts 4:12; Romans 3:10-26; 5:8-11; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:4-7). When you stand before G-d in judgment, you will have to give an account of your entire life to Him (Matthew 12:36; Romans 14:12). This means you will have to give an account for all of your sins (every idle word, every action, and every thought). You will not be able to hide anything from G-d (Hebrews 4:13). I want you to think about this very seriously: If you were to die today, without Christ, you would end up in hell, forever. As I mentioned in my previous post, Scripture is very clear that unbelievers are storing up wrath against themselves (Romans 2:5) and that G-d will "give to each person according to what he has done" (Romans 2:6; Revelation 2:23; 20:12; 22:12). And Scripture is also very clear that "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Hebrews 10:31). The choice is yours.

 

[Criada]

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[1Prophetess]

What does that look like? How do I know if I have one of those?

 

[Cieza]

Like the Pharisees who asked Jesus for a sign to prove He was who He claimed to be, the OP is asking (rather demanding) for a sign from G-d so that he will believe in Him. However, G-d has already proven Himself through creation (Romans 1:18-23), through the Scriptures (2 Timothy 3:15-17), and through His Son, Jesus Christ (Philippians 2:5-11).

Unfortunately I wasn't around to observe the creation. So even if the creation is evidence of God, it isn't enough for me to believe that God exists.

No matter what he claims, he has no excuse for not believing.

My reason for not believing an omniscient & omnipotent being exists is that I have never observed such a thing. It's a fairly substantial claim that an omniscient & omnipotent being exists. And the more substantial a claim is, the more substantial the evidence needs to be. If you tell me an ant is crawling on the floor of your house, I'll believe you. But if you tell me you own an interstellar starship, then you'll need to provide evidence.

I don't think, from what I've read in his posts, that the OP is willing to believe but rather is looking for excuses to justify his unbelief. However, the OP needs to realize that G-d knows his heart and he isn't fooling Him one bit.

If God is real and knows my heart, then he would know that I've got a misguided belief that is largely founded on unsubstantiated claims by Christians who don't know how to properly explain their God to people of the secular world.

Scripture tells us that G-d resists the proud but gives grace to the humble. The OP doesn't appear to be humble before G-d. Although we cannot truly know his heart, Jesus did say that from "out of the heart, the mouth speaks"

One day, the OP will stand before G-d in judgment

Have there ever been documented cases of others standing before God in judgment? If so, who documented these cases and how were they documented? How authentic is the documentation of these cases?

After he dies, he will have no chance for salvation or forgiveness. There are no second chances after death, for it is written, "And it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment”

What exactly is it you think I don't believe to exist? Please use secular terminology.

So, when he does stand before G-d in judgment, he will have to give an account of his entire life to Him. This means he will have to give an account for every idle word he has ever spoken. He will also have to give an account for every action and every thought. He will not be able to hide anything from G-d.

I won't have a problem with that. If God is real and is a fair God, then he'll know that I don't believe in a supreme being because I refuse to lie to myself.

He will have absolutely no excuse whatsoever for not believing and for not accepting forgiveness for his sins through His Son, Jesus Christ. If he were to die today, without Christ, he would end up in hell, forever.

How do you think God feels that I've been taught to believe that after I die I won't even be capable of being aware of whether I'm in heaven or in hell?

Scripture is very clear that unbelievers are storing up wrath against themselves and that G-d will "give to each person according to what he has done". And Scripture is also very clear that "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Hebrews 10:31).

I guess that means my cat is storing up wrath against himself.

The people who wrote these rules about God - where did they get this information from? Did they sit in on a bunch of judgments?

 

[Montalban]

{unsubscribing}

 

[talitha]

LOL @ the only Orthodox person subscribing......
My guess is that the moderator didn't mean "Orthodox" as in "Greek Orthodox" but rather "Orthodox" as in pro-Nicene-creed-beliefs Christian (adhering to what is generally accepted as correct doctrine).