Are you worried about the end of the world?

LivingWordUnity

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2 Thessalonians 2

"Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren, not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you this? And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by his appearing and his coming. The coming of the lawless one by the activity of Satan will be with all power and with pretended signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are to perish,because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false, so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

"But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.

"Now may our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father, who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word."
 
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BroIgnatius

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Except that you and your ilk want the world to deteriorate, as evidence that JC#2 is imminent.

What I have said is what Jesus said in the Bible about the days leading up to the Second Coming. This is the Bible and official Church teaching, not opinion, and has nothing to do with what anybody wants. "Ilk"? You mean us "Christians".
 
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Gnarwhal

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"The rebellion against God in the modern period...."

— Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, Values in a Time of Upheaval, p. 162

What's the larger context of that quotation?
 
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LivingWordUnity

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What's the larger context of that quotation?
I didn't quote more because I have to type it out manually while holding the book. But the context is him describing how the modern world rejected God.
 
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BroIgnatius

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What's the larger context of that quotation?

Here is the context:

In view of all the terrible things in our world, many people are moved to ask: Does God exist? Where is he? And if he does exist, is a truly God? Is he not rather a sinister God or even dangerous? This question has taken a new form in the modern period. God's existence looks like a limitation of our freedom. Someone is watching us; his eyes follow our every step. The rebellion against God in the modern period is generated by the fear that is induced by the omnipresent eye of God, which seems threatening. We do not want to be seen; we just want to be ourselves. Man feels truly free, truly himself, only what he has got rid of God.

Here is a peak of the book (p 162)
 
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thecolorsblend

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Obviously we have put the world in greater danger of annihilation--either through environmental disaster or nuclear war--by electing Trump as president
I'm sort of curious where you get this. The candidate who ran on a platform of a world war with Russia to save ISIS was Hillary. I can never keep track of the narrative these days. "Trump is too buddy-buddy with Putin", "Trump wants war with Russia", "The Russians hacked something or other because they wanted Trump", "The Russians think Trump is a threat to their way of life", etc.

As to the broader purpose of this thread, I doubt any of us will live to see the "end of the world". So no, it isn't something I worry too much about.
 
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MikeK

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No, actually, I didn't. [miss that point] And yes, actually, you are right. Anyone can produce any kind of chaotic, psychotic interpretation from, say, the Book of Revelations. And no, mostly I am not interested in hearing/considering them. Generally, they are sheer nonsense.

When a devout knowledge of scripture combines with a detailed knowledge of the world, and a convincing argument is provided, then I will be interested in the views expressed. Call it management by exception.

Best wishes, Strivax.


There have been alarmists who have been clanging cymbals of doom, interpreting Scripture's comments on the last days as describing their current days since the first days. All of them have been wrong. All of them have thought themselves right. I get a kick out of the last days club who preach that this time its for real. All of their predecessors, similarily convinced and citing the same Scripture, were wrong, but now they've got it figured out. For real this time. Same as it ever was. Their counter-argument will be "but you can't prove we're wrong this time!" No, I can't. Time can, and I suspect it will, like it always has. We've had people in this forum state that they figured out the identity of the antichrist, only to later say "never mind". It would be laughable if they weren't sincere, if trying to solve tend times riddles wasn't taking time and effort that could instead be used to help people.
 
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AvilaSurfer

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No, actually, I didn't. [miss that point] And yes, actually, you are right. Anyone can produce any kind of chaotic, psychotic interpretation from, say, the Book of Revelations. And no, mostly I am not interested in hearing/considering them. Generally, they are sheer nonsense.

When a devout, enlightened knowledge of scripture combines with a detailed, expansive knowledge of the world, and a convincing, solid argument is provided, then I will be interested in the views expressed. Call it management by exception.

Best wishes, Strivax.
When bragging about your knowledge of Scripture and the world, you might want to get the name of the book of the bible that you're using as an example right.
 
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MikeK

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I'm sure you are intelligent enough to understand me, and that I have missed no point, just ignored irrelevancies.

By all means, you have a nice day, too.

Best wishes, Strivax.

Keep your head up. You make good points and when people are as short and dismissive with you as they have been here in spite of your patience and charity, it's usually because the worldview they hold as part of their identity is being shaken and they don't care to consider it.
 
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BroIgnatius

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So, by ilk I simply mean those who a) wish to reinterpret the progress of the world as regress, or b) those who actively want to inflict regress on the world, and all to prove that Jesus is coming back real soon now, and that the end of the world is nigh, and that we all ought to repent of anything that might even dubiously be regarded as a sin, just to save our souls.

We may all have our hobbies, but this particular one seems singularly damaging, to me.

Best wishes, Strivax.

To suggest that I am part of that "ilk" is rash judgment. I have nothing to do with the "ilk" and there is absolutely nothing that I said to suggest it.

The last phrase, however, is Catholic teaching. We are to repent of sin, venial and grave, to save our souls.
 
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~Anastasia~

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Then I apologise for my misconception.



As a sight aside from the theme of the thread, does this not seem a rather self-seeking, petty minded reason to repent of sin? Do we really need to be threatened and bribed to thus repent? Surely it is reason enough that sin is just plain wrong, and damages others, and ourselves spiritually, and that is sufficient reason to want to rid ourselves of it? Can we not just leave God to deploy our souls as they deserve, confident in His loving mercy, without seeking to escape His justice by a repentance so reluctant that our very souls must be in jeopardy for all eternity before we will contemplate it?

Just asking.

Best wishes, Strivax.

To repent because sin is wrong is better and more mature than to repent because we are afraid of what might happen if we don't. To repent because we love God is higher still.

But if someone turns to God for reasons of fear, rather than love, at the first, then I believe God accepts that. Hopefully we grow in love though, and become more mature. But no need to despise humble beginnings, if at least, someone has begun. :)



Not saying this as a criticism ... just a reply that comes to mind. :)
 
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BroIgnatius

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Then I apologise for my misconception.



As a slight aside from the theme of the thread, does this not seem a rather self-seeking, petty minded reason to repent of sin? Do we really need to be threatened and bribed to thus repent? Surely it is reason enough that sin is just plain wrong, and damages others, physically, materially, emotionally and/or spiritually, and ourselves spiritually, and that is sufficient reason to want to rid ourselves of it?

Can we not just leave God to deploy our souls as they deserve, confident in His loving mercy, without seeking to escape His justice by a repentance so reluctant that we must be convinced those very souls are in jeopardy for all eternity before we will contemplate it?

Just asking.

Best wishes, Strivax.

I have never in my life suggested that we should be in a hurry to repent of sin because the second coming is on its way. To begin with, although the conditions that are ripe for the Antichrist to do his thing may be set probably by the end of this century, we may have to live under those ripe conditions for 3000 years before it the Antichrist appears and the second coming happens.

The end of the world for each of us is when we die, from whatever causes. Thus, we need to repent of our sins daily, and in the Sacrament of Confession whenever we gravely sin. Jesus says it well in the Parable of the Rich Man:

(Luke 20:19-20) And I will say to my soul, Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; take your ease, eat, drink, be merry.’ But God said to him, ‘Fool! This night your soul is required of you; and the things you have prepared, whose will they be?’”

If people repent out of fear of hell, that is called "imperfect contrition" by the Church. It is sufficient to a valid repentance and confession.

"Perfect contrition" is to repent out of love of God and that we disappointed Him by our sin. This is the more mature form of contrition, but imperfect contrition works too.

As a former Southern Baptist I certainly did see preachers on a fear campaign saying "repent because the second coming is at hand." Even as a Baptist I thought that was wrong.

The only people who advocate what you are suggesting are some fundamentalist Protestants, and perhaps some Catholics thinking like fundamentalist Protestants.
 
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