Are you elect and how do you know that you are?

[LittleLambofJesus]

Faith, objectively considered, is a sure thing but my question was about faith as a subjective experience.
I asked "Is their* faith so sure that it can never be shaken?"

* their meaning those who claim to be among the elect.

Good point!

NKJV Search Results for "elect"
"elect"
occurs 20 times in 20 verses in the NKJV.


Tts 1:1
Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness,

1Pe 1:2
elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
Grace to you and peace be multiplied.



.

 

[shturt678]

Yepp Gotta check the fruit . i'd encourage the same of the institutional dudes as well .. but i've noticed that they tend to put their doctrines before the fruit of the spirit . unnecessary idols if you ask me .

Decades ago after it was inculcated into me that we need to walk the walk and I kept seeing non-believers, other faiths such as Mormons, J.W.s walking the walk more than any Lutheran, Baptist and Calvin camp could ever do, I made the decision to go against the grain, and adamant insist that we need to talk the talk first, ie, not "another Jesus" aboard, IICor.11:4, due to a "different gospel." Then walk the walk bearing good fruit.

Just ol' old walker and talker Jack so ol' old having to use a 'walker.'

 

[MoreCoffee]

A number have indicated complete confidence in their election. That's an interesting phenomenon.

Do those who say they are elect and that they know it have no doubts?

Is their faith so sure that it can never be shaken?

Yes it is a sure faith. For our Faith is in Christ and not what we do. He is the sure foundation. He is the Great I Am.. He will loose none that the Father gives to Him. Never

Faith, objectively considered, is a sure thing but my question was about faith as a subjective experience. I asked "Is their* faith so sure that it can never be shaken?"

* their meaning those who claim to be among the elect.

Good point!

Thanks

But MamaZ hasn't replied ... alas.

 

[shturt678]

Thanks

But MamaZ hasn't replied ... alas.

Thunderous silence so loud that even spilled my fresh cup of Kona coffee.

Just your ol' old friend Jack

 

[Rick Otto]

Well,... one needn't accept every invitation to an argument. (lol)
And to be fair, we should consider the ambiguity in the question.
...In what sense can one's faith be said to be broken? Does this not suggest God's mercy & Christ's sacrifice can be undone? Of course we suffer doubt:"Lord, I believe; help thou my unbelief."

 

[Rick Otto]

Thunderous silence so loud that even spilled my fresh cup of Kona coffee.

Just your ol' old friend Jack

That's just wrong.

At least it wasn't Columbian.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Never fear dear brother shturt678, you shall have coffee and more in the kingdom

 

[Rick Otto]

Ye shall partake of the Supreme Bean.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Ye shall partake of the Supreme Bean.

chuckle

 

[Keachian]

I believe I am elect, my faith is not that anything within me makes me elect, there is an object of my faith and that is that Christ is faithful and has made intercession for his elect.

It is by subjection that I believe and hope that this faith is enduring, it is by subjection based on the Holy Spirit testifying in my soul, that I believe God would still be just if I were to be cast into Hell, even though I would go in cursing and blaspheming wretch that I am.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I believe I am elect, my faith is not that anything within me makes me elect, there is an object of my faith and that is that Christ is faithful and has made intercession for his elect.

If there is nothing in you to merit your election why is that not also true of an atheist, a Hindu, a Buddhist, an agnostic, etcetera?

It is by subjection that I believe and hope that this faith is enduring, it is by subjection based on the Holy Spirit testifying in my soul, that I believe God would still be just if I were to be cast into Hell, even though I would go in cursing and blaspheming wretch that I am.

So, basically, there's some inner buzz that tells one that one is elect? How does one know that the inner buzz is God rather than something or someone else?

 

[Rick Otto]

If there is nothing in you to merit your election why is that not also true of an atheist, a Hindu, a Buddhist, an agnostic, etcetera?

Because Jesus died to pay for the sins of the elect. It's called "Limited Atonement partly because it was forshadowed by the High Priest making yearly atonement for all Israel. But you have to remember that 'not all who are of Israel are Israel'. When John 3;16 says Jesus died for all mankind, it means "not just for Jews" instead of "every individual".

So, basically, there's some inner buzz that tells one that one is elect? How does one know that the inner buzz is God rather than something or someone else?

The same way you know you are Christian. There is no explaining "blue" to the color blind.

 

[Albion]

If there is nothing in you to merit your election why is that not also true of an atheist, a Hindu, a Buddhist, an agnostic, etcetera?

You see...this is part of the problem with such discussions. Vehement opponents of some doctrine (in this case, Election) rail about what they don't like about it and start threads to ridicule it...and then we find from a comment like this one above that they didn't even know what the doctrine was all about.

 

[MoreCoffee]

You see...this is part of the problem with such discussions. Vehement opponents of some doctrine (in this case, Election) rail about what they don't like about it and start threads to ridicule it...and then we find from a comment like this one above that they didn't even know what the doctrine was all about.

One finds from comments like that in the above quote that some do not seek to have a doctrine examined.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Because Jesus died to pay for the sins of the elect. It's called "Limited Atonement partly because it was foreshadowed by the High Priest making yearly atonement for all Israel. But you have to remember that 'not all who are of Israel are Israel'. When John 3;16 says Jesus died for all mankind, it means "not just for Jews" instead of "every individual"

Wouldn't the topic of this part of the discussion be closer to Unconditional election? The U in TULIP. And maybe a dash of Irresistible grace? The I in TULIP? The L (Limited atonement) explains why Reformed & Presbyterian doctrine teaches that Jesus died for the benefit of the elect alone (pro solis electis) and not for any others - the non-elect being left with no saving graces and no hope.

The same way you know you are Christian. There is no explaining "blue" to the color blind.

Explaining blue to the sighted who are not colour blind is a challenge but it is possible.

By the way, how does one know that one is a Christian?

 

[Keachian]

If there is nothing in you to merit your election why is that not also true of an atheist, a Hindu, a Buddhist, an agnostic, etcetera?

I'm confused are you saying you would rather have everyone saved, or that salvation is for those who somehow have some quality that merits their salvation, in other words no one is saved.

So, basically, there's some inner buzz that tells one that one is elect? How does one know that the inner buzz is God rather than something or someone else?

It is irrelevant whether I am actually elect or not, to fuss over it is to be distracted from my purpose, which is to bring glory to God.

 

[Rick Otto]

Wouldn't the topic of this part of the discussion be closer to Unconditional election? The U in TULIP. And maybe a dash of Irresistible grace? The I in TULIP? The L (Limited atonement) explains why Reformed & Presbyterian doctrine teaches that Jesus died for the benefit of the elect alone (pro solis electis) and not for any others - the non-elect being left with no saving graces and no hope.


Explaining blue to the sighted who are not colour blind is a challenge but it is possible.

By the way, how does one know that one is a Christian?

Depends who you ask.
One evidence is a preference for an answer over endless contentious questioning.

 

[MoreCoffee]

I'm confused are you saying you would rather have everyone saved

Yes, I am saying I would rather have everyone saved than see any lost. Isn't that God's desire?

One hopes to reflect God's desire in one's own desires. The scripture says, "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony to which was borne at the proper time." (1 Timothy 2:1-6)

, or that salvation is for those who somehow have some quality that merits their salvation, in other words no one is saved.

I think of my faith as a quality that is inherent to me and not as something external to me.

One acknowledges that faith is a gift from God, a grace through which one is brought into a saving relationship of trust and reliance upon Jesus Christ through whom all who will be saved are saved. This is what sacred scripture teaches, is it not?

You see, God's grace has been revealed to save the whole human race; it has taught us that we should give up everything contrary to true religion and all our worldly passions; we must be self-restrained and live upright and religious lives in this present world, waiting in hope for the blessing which will come with the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Christ Jesus. He offered himself for us in order to ransom us from all our faults and to purify a people to be his very own and eager to do good. (Titus 2:11-14)​

It is irrelevant whether I am actually elect or not, to fuss over it is to be distracted from my purpose, which is to bring glory to God.

I appreciate your comments but this thread is about knowing if one is elect and how one knows it if one is.

 

[Keachian]

Yes, I am saying I would rather have everyone saved than see any lost. Isn't that God's desire?

One hopes to reflect God's desire in one's own desires. The scripture says, "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony to which was borne at the proper time."[/I] (1 Timothy 2:1-6)


I think of my faith as a quality that is inherent to me and not as something external to me.

One acknowledges that faith is a gift from God, a grace through which one is brought into a saving relationship of trust and reliance upon Jesus Christ through whom all who will be saved are saved. This is what sacred scripture teaches, is it not?

You see, God's grace has been revealed to save the whole human race; it has taught us that we should give up everything contrary to true religion and all our worldly passions; we must be self-restrained and live upright and religious lives in this present world, waiting in hope for the blessing which will come with the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Christ Jesus. He offered himself for us in order to ransom us from all our faults and to purify a people to be his very own and eager to do good. (Titus 2:11-14)​

So Faith that is pleasing to God is a gift for God, if it is the will of God that all men be saved then why do all men not have faith? The atheist and the Buddhist do not believe in God and all other religions have such a warped view of God that from our view they are basically imaginings of men rather than the holy and true God.

I appreciate your comments but this thread is about knowing if one is elect and how one knows it if one is.

And I'm saying that it is a question that has no real validity and is about as much use to the Christian as "How many Angels can dance upon the head of a pin"

 

[MoreCoffee]

I'm confused are you saying you would rather have everyone saved

Yes, I am saying I would rather have everyone saved than see any lost. Isn't that God's desire?

One hopes to reflect God's desire in one's own desires. The scripture says, "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony to which was borne at the proper time." (1 Timothy 2:1-6)

, or that salvation is for those who somehow have some quality that merits their salvation, in other words no one is saved.

I think of my faith as a quality that is inherent to me and not as something external to me.

One acknowledges that faith is a gift from God, a grace through which one is brought into a saving relationship of trust and reliance upon Jesus Christ through whom all who will be saved are saved. This is what sacred scripture teaches, is it not?

You see, God's grace has been revealed to save the whole human race; it has taught us that we should give up everything contrary to true religion and all our worldly passions; we must be self-restrained and live upright and religious lives in this present world, waiting in hope for the blessing which will come with the appearing of the glory of our great God and Saviour Christ Jesus. He offered himself for us in order to ransom us from all our faults and to purify a people to be his very own and eager to do good. (Titus 2:11-14)​

So Faith that is pleasing to God is a gift for God, if it is the will of God that all men be saved then why do all men not have faith?

You pose an interesting question, is there, in your opinion, scripture to answer it?

Clearly from the passages quoted in my earlier post we have apostolic testimony that "God our Saviour ... desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" and also testimony to the effect that "God's grace has been revealed to save the whole human race". What is to be concluded from these testimonies of sacred scripture?

The atheist and the Buddhist do not believe in God and all other religions have such a warped view of God that from our view they are basically imaginings of men rather than the holy and true God.

I am confident that God will judge the atheist as well as the Buddhist justly according to the gifts that they received. The scripture offers these words about the pagans of ancient times:

For whoever had sinned without the law, will perish without the law. And whoever had sinned in the law, will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are just before God, but rather it is the doers of the law who shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature those things which are of the law, such persons, not having the law, are a law unto themselves. For they reveal the work of the law written in their hearts, while their conscience renders testimony about them, and their thoughts within themselves also accuse or even defend them, unto the day when God shall judge the hidden things of men, through Jesus Christ, according to my Gospel. (Romans 2:12-16)​

It is irrelevant whether I am actually elect or not, to fuss over it is to be distracted from my purpose, which is to bring glory to God.

I appreciate your comments but this thread is about knowing if one is elect and how one knows it if one is.

And I'm saying that it is a question that has no real validity and is about as much use to the Christian as "How many Angels can dance upon the head of a pin"

I saw what you said previously and I see what you said in the above quote. Nevertheless the thread is about knowing if one is elect and how one knows it if one is. In a previous post you wrote:

I believe I am elect, my faith is not that anything within me makes me elect, there is an object of my faith and that is that Christ is faithful and has made intercession for his elect.​

This thread is asking how do you know it? In the previous post you wrote:

It is by subjection that I believe and hope that this faith is enduring, it is by subjection based on the Holy Spirit testifying in my soul, that I believe God would still be just if I were to be cast into Hell, even though I would go in cursing and blaspheming wretch that I am.​

I suppose that your current answer represents a change of position then? Since your most recent post says, "And I'm saying that it is a question that has no real validity and is about as much use to the Christian as "How many Angels can dance upon the head of a pin""