Are they both trying to be worse?

MorkandMindy

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The big difference now is between the candidates and their 'supporters', that is the supporters who have paid any attention to the important things going on instead of running off at the mouth about the details.

Some background on Hillary Clinton.

Democrats criticised G W Bush for starting two wars, and finishing none despite many promises.

BROKEN PROMISES
In front of the banner 'Mission Accomplished' G W Bush opened with 'Admiral Kelly, ...my fellow Americans, major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.'

At the end of his first term he claimed that the surge had been a success and that victory was within our grasp. Any Democrat who won after that would be charged with having lost the war so very much had been put into.

Eventually it was Obama's term and many Republicans still charged him with having lost the war.


NOW
The DNC has picked the supposedly Democrat Senator Hillary Clinton who had argued in favor of the invasion of Iraq for 5 years, even after the flimsy excuse of having forgotten to make an exit strategy was no longer believed. Then she again supported destroying the state of Libya, which was easier because we stayed focused on destroying the state apparatus instead of occupying land as well.

She had the dubious reputation of having been a key factor in starting both the Iraq and Libyan wars. And now she wants to step in to the Russian ally Syria where Russia has made a good start at eradicating ISIS, something we were not very focused on, and declare a no-fly zone, kick the Russians out, antagonise the Russians and jeopardize our own security in order to start spending our money there too.

Basically Bush / Rumsfeld / Cheney all over again.

As a committed Democrat supporter I would have voted for any Democrat, but not that one, not one who loves war so much.
 
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MorkandMindy

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Answering contentious points

The destruction of the Libyan state was requested by a UN resolution.

No, the resolution was passed 10 for with 5 abstentions. The resolution was to protect the last stronghold of the rebels against Col M Gaddafi in Benghazi which is the second most populous city in Libya. No body would have wanted to be blamed for vetoing an attempt to save so many lives.

But what happened was the usual, the 'allies' reinterpreted the resolution as to destroy Gaddafi and the state machinery in Tripoli, to succeed where the rebels had failed and that's what they did.
 
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MorkandMindy

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How did the Republicans with many capable politicians end up with Trump?

They didn't do much better than the DNC did.

They got a narcissistic ego maniac which isn't all that good, but not as bad as the DNC which picked the Psychopath.
 
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MorkandMindy

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One excuse I've often heard is that Hillary didn't know any more than the general public did and probably never gave it much thought when she supported the Iraq War for 5 years.

I would be surprised if she had no idea that the Project for the New American Century and that it called for destroying the states Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Iran and dividing them into sections. A professional politician has a lot more time to think about how the policies they back are working out, but evidently she was happy to back the Republicans for 5 years on a project that wasn't working out.
 
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MorkandMindy

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To balance this out I have to ask why given the support Bernie Sanders got, and the general feeling that pretty much everything is now going to the top 1% and increasing numbers of people are doing more work for a lot less

Donald decides to cut the taxes on the rich?

CEO pay 20x to 300x.jpg


I think even the most right wing Republicans are going to feel the 'incentive' has gone a bit too far,

especially when the richest 1% can just leave the country taking 38% of privately held wealth and leaving the bottom 90% who hold 73% of all debt.
 
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tatteredsoul

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The big difference now is between the candidates and their 'supporters', that is the supporters who have paid any attention to the important things going on instead of running off at the mouth about the details.

Some background on Hillary Clinton.

Democrats criticised G W Bush for starting two wars, and finishing none despite many promises.

BROKEN PROMISES
In front of the banner 'Mission Accomplished' G W Bush opened with 'Admiral Kelly, ...my fellow Americans, major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.'

At the end of his first term he claimed that the surge had been a success and that victory was within our grasp. Any Democrat who won after that would be charged with having lost the war so very much had been put into.

Eventually it was Obama's term and many Republicans still charged him with having lost the war.


NOW
The DNC has picked the supposedly Democrat Senator Hillary Clinton who had argued in favor of the invasion of Iraq for 5 years, even after the flimsy excuse of having forgotten to make an exit strategy was no longer believed. Then she again supported destroying the state of Libya, which was easier because we stayed focused on destroying the state apparatus instead of occupying land as well.

She had the dubious reputation of having been a key factor in starting both the Iraq and Libyan wars. And now she wants to step in to the Russian ally Syria where Russia has made a good start at eradicating ISIS, something we were not very focused on, and declare a no-fly zone, kick the Russians out, antagonise the Russians and jeopardize our own security in order to start spending our money there too.

Basically Bush / Rumsfeld / Cheney all over again.

As a committed Democrat supporter I would have voted for any Democrat, but not that one, not one who loves war so much.

I have been saying Hillary is a war monger from the beginning - of course, with the healthy dose of scoffing. People will see once she is in office.


Really, this election is purely for entertainment, and a distraction. The world is about to go to war; it doesn't matter who becomes president. A worldwide paradigm shift in global economics is about to occur, and maps are quietly being redrawn.

The purpose of this election is to ciphon emotional energy from a populace, and exploit it for ritualistic killing and sacrifice (war, disease, death, poverty, neglect, famine, etc.)



Meanwhile, while everyone is fighting, America is turning into an oligarchy. Businesses are buying up their competition. Bayer is buying Monsanto. ATT is buying Direct TV. Econ 100 tells us an oligarchy is one step from monopoly economy.

The people are being marginalized, and the world is being drained of its life force. So that people do kot try to be productive, and attack the root of the real problems, you get circus acts like the American Presidential election in which the candidates are both crooked, possibly felonious, and unarguably dishonest. Yet, people fight for these candidates, and treat "honesty, couth and truth" as annoyingly uncomfortable platitudes.

You get what you pay for...
 
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MorkandMindy

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Few understand that the US loses more on the high risk investments by bankers, much of it abroad, than in the trade deficit, about four times as much.

How will that work out when H R C is paid for by Goldman Sachs, and as for the trade and immigration told them 'privately' that she is in favor of open borders and trade agreements.

My impression is Hillary will bankrupt the country in 5 years while it will take Donald 10.


Not that many people really agree with Obama but most would prefer him to either candidate.


How do they manage to be sooo baaad?
 
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MorkandMindy

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I have been saying Hillary is a war monger from the beginning - of course, with the healthy dose of scoffing. People will see once she is in office.


Really, this election is purely for entertainment, and a distraction. The world is about to go to war; it doesn't matter who becomes president. A worldwide paradigm shift in global economics is about to occur, and maps are quietly being redrawn.

... monopoly economy.

So that people do not try to be productive, and attack the root of the real problems, you get circus acts like the American Presidential election in which the candidates are both crooked, possibly felonious, and unarguably dishonest. Yet, people fight for these candidates, and treat "honesty, couth and truth" as annoyingly uncomfortable platitudes.

You get what you pay for...


I had a suspicion this might be going on, but I thought Bernie might be able to stop it.

In the off chance the election would make any difference at all I was not happy to be given the choice between two Republicans, with the DNC having picked the worst of the two.

But I can't see how we could have gotten into this predicament unless what you say is, unfortunately, true.
 
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MorkandMindy

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Hard to know what to do in practice, but there is the 'eye of the storm' haven.

The US citizen John D Rockefeller and his friends and company Esso set up the situation which started WW2 in the European Theater (nice way of putting it), and the US goaded Japan into the Pacific Theater, but ironically the US was the safest place to be.

I think I'm going to take out my sorrow on repairing the other computer which has a RAID 0 failure. I set up the RAID 0 when hard drives were inconveniently small and I thought the machine would be totally obsolete in 5 years which is about the usual lifespan of a RAID 0 using those Seagate drives. Now I have the fun of fixing it. - kindest regards, M of M&M
 
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tatteredsoul

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Few understand that the US loses more on the high risk investments by bankers, much of it abroad, than in the trade deficit, about four times as much.

How will that work out when H R C is paid for by Goldman Sachs, and as for the trade and immigration told them 'privately' that she is in favor of open borders and trade agreements.

My impression is Hillary will bankrupt the country in 5 years while it will take Donald 10.


Not that many people really agree with Obama but most would prefer him to either candidate.


How do they manage to be sooo baaad?

The thing is this election is very enlightening when scrutinizing the psychology of a country. Russia, China, and Israel are rubbing their hands seeing the fruits of their labor - complete destabilization and demoralization of a dominant empire like the US.

History tells us the only *productive* course of action that could possibly be non-degenerate is if the US is destroyed, and rebuilt (hint, the bird on the dollar bill is a PHOENIX, not an eagle.)

And it is true, whatever Clinton does will likely take trump a bit more time to do (war, invasion, collapse.) But, Trump is just a delay of the inevitable.


Four years ago, Trump was such a laughing stock for president that Hermann Cain, Jeb Bush, and Carly Figorina were considered better candidates for the Republican party than him. Now, he is all of a sudden the savior who will save all the regular folks from the same system that has made him billions.

This would have actually been a somewhat reputable election if a Bush was the Republican candidate, or the "illegitimate American citizen" whose father allegedly had something to do with the murder of JFK (Ted Cruz.)

Instead, we have a quarter-witted political reality show disguised poorly as a presidential election.
 
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MorkandMindy

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CA other, the way that came about was to post in the democrats forum I selected US democrat, and I was and voted in the US democrat primary.

But whatever I wrote in a political forum i got very nasty replies to, whatever it was, then

someone said 'well you're a democrat' and I noticed the caption, but couldn't delete it so I changed it to something I didn't understand.


I've had the same thing in the past when I mentioned the reasons why I thought invading Iraq was a bad idea and probably would never work out, someone wrote 'you just don't like George Bush'.

Weird. I've never met him so how would I know? I also like a number of people I disagree with.

What it comes to is people find ways to avoid possibilities they don't like.

Back then the democrats had better candidates and not quite such bad policies, but when the winds of change hit I won't let party politics blind me to reality.

so that's why I'm CA other.
 
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