Are There Really Two Gospels?

[jerry kelso]

Jesus' parables were primarily about individuals. Not Israel.

open heart,

1. Jesus said he came to seek and save that which was lost. I do not deny it is about individuals in the historical context who were backslidden and out of covenant. These individuals were in the nation of Israel and this is the historical context and they were backslidden and they needed to come back into covenant. Israel as a nation were backslidden and they were out of covenant and they needed to come back.

2. It is not right to miss the big picture of the gospels showing Christ ministry to the jews only and not to the church of today.

3. To say Israel was not in this picture of the prodigal son or the vineyard of the master who killed the son and other parables is disregarding the whole picture of truth of what was really happening in that age. The gospels are historically and dispensationally were under the law of Moses and out of covenant. Do you believe this?
This is the reason for the Sermon on the Mount. Do you believe this? They were to be the salt of the earth but the salt had lost its savor and was trodden down under the foot of men. Do you believe this is talking about Israel and not the church? If one doesn't understand the context correctly historically then its most likely the Sermon on the Mount are just ethical teachings and Israel being trodden down was the end of their calling and the church has taken their place in the KoH and the KoG message. Will you answer these questions. Jerry kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

Faith(believing Jesus is Christ the Lord: who is God) comes by hearing the word of God by the gospel(Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in the king James bible) If a man can not hear the truth, he is destined for condemnation at the judgment.

istandbyjesus,

1. The jews believed he was Messiah and those who believed in him believed that he was God and they heard the word that they had. Those believers in Jesus day were saved by believing. Even those before the law believed in God.
You are still misunderstanding the context of how people came to God by the revelation God gave them. I already explained it and you will have to study it out for yourself. Jerry kelso

 

[ISTANDBYJESUS]

istandbyjesus,

1. The jews believed he was Messiah and those who believed in him believed that he was God and they heard the word that they had. Those believers in Jesus day were saved by believing. Even those before the law believed in God.
You are still misunderstanding the context of how people came to God by the revelation God gave them. I already explained it and you will have to study it out for yourself. Jerry kelso

John 6:45-46King James Version (KJV)
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

AS IT IS WRITTEN:

John 8:47King James Version (KJV)
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.


Further more:

John 12:44-45King James Version (KJV)
44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.

 

[jerry kelso]

Further More, read John 17kjb, Jesus is also praying for those that believe on him through their word, his disciples at that time, such as Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. I thank my God that I received the witness of Matthew, and know that Christ him self prayed for me in John 17.

istandbyjesus,

1. Jesus was preparing them for what was to come as the church. The jewish nation had rejected him (Matthew 23:37-39).
2. The disciples had eternal life but so did people before the law such as Enoch who did not have the written law. You wouldn't say that they received eternal life the same way because of gradual revelation. The source was the same who was Christ the redeemer and the final sacrifice.
3. The disciples didn't understand the finished work of Christ in the revelation that we do. This is why though they were saved they were not perfected. This did not happen until Calvary and then both the jews and gentiles could be perfected together. They were on credit so to speak and valid but had to wait for the transaction to be complete. Context has to be understood according to gradual revelation. Gradual revelation is the reason they came to accept God differently and why they will be judged differently in different ages. Jerry kelso

 

[toLiJC]

The following website contains various articles from the Mid-Acts Perspective.

One of them, "Are There Really Two Gospels?," has yet to be disproven.

Biblical Advanced Basics - Doctrinal Topics

don't worry about it, the Bible in its current form of basic manuscripts, from which it was translated into different languages, is genuine, only the translations were/are more or less not completely correct (i say this without judging the translators), therefore the believer/worshiper/cleric should exercise the faith right(ly) enough so that he/she might understand the truth of the true Lord God by revelation from Him, otherwise, if the method is a frequent Bible reading, the hitherto prevailing versions of the Bible are not completely revealing His truth of themselves, even because many words and phrases of the biblical scriptures are strongly figurative so that even the hitherto existing dictionaries and encyclopedias (or at least most of them) could not guide the believer/worshiper well enough

Blessings

 

[jerry kelso]

John 6:45-46King James Version (KJV)
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

AS IT IS WRITTEN:

John 8:47King James Version (KJV)
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.


Further more:

John 12:44-45King James Version (KJV)
44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.
45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.

istandbyjesus,

John 6:45 was prophetic and was not fulfilled in Jesus day but will be for the jewish nation in the future Hebrews 8:7-13.
James 8:47, They did hear the words of God according to their revelation. Peter said, to Christ when he said, Eat my flesh and drink my blood and will you go away like the others because they didn't understand the death and resurrection, Only you have the words of eternal life.
John 12:44-45; Every age was to believe by faith in God and the revelation of God they had.
Jesus was Prophet, Priest and King and he taught the Mosaic law of which we were never under and the KoH and the KoG message of which was their earthly covenant promise and not the church and he will be king in the future. Context. Jerry kelso

 

[ISTANDBYJESUS]

istandbyjesus,

1. Jesus was preparing them for what was to come as the church. The jewish nation had rejected him (Matthew 23:37-39).
2. The disciples had eternal life but so did people before the law such as Enoch who did not have the written law. You wouldn't say that they received eternal life the same way because of gradual revelation. The source was the same who was Christ the redeemer and the final sacrifice.
3. The disciples didn't understand the finished work of Christ in the revelation that we do. This is why though they were saved they were not perfected. This did not happen until Calvary and then both the jews and gentiles could be perfected together. They were on credit so to speak and valid but had to wait for the transaction to be complete. Context has to be understood according to gradual revelation. Gradual revelation is the reason they came to accept God differently and why they will be judged differently in different ages. Jerry kelso

Jerry I know you don't fear Christ, and niether do you understand the work of God.

istandbyjesus,

1. Jesus was preparing them for what was to come as the church. The jewish nation had rejected him (Matthew 23:37-39).
2. The disciples had eternal life but so did people before the law such as Enoch who did not have the written law. You wouldn't say that they received eternal life the same way because of gradual revelation. The source was the same who was Christ the redeemer and the final sacrifice.
3. The disciples didn't understand the finished work of Christ in the revelation that we do. This is why though they were saved they were not perfected. This did not happen until Calvary and then both the jews and gentiles could be perfected together. They were on credit so to speak and valid but had to wait for the transaction to be complete. Context has to be understood according to gradual revelation. Gradual revelation is the reason they came to accept God differently and why they will be judged differently in different ages. Jerry kelso

John 17:20-23King James Version (KJV)
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

 

[ISTANDBYJESUS]

istandbyjesus,

John 6:45 was prophetic and was not fulfilled in Jesus day but will be for the jewish nation in the future Hebrews 8:7-13.
James 8:47, They did hear the words of God according to their revelation. Peter said, to Christ when he said, Eat my flesh and drink my blood and will you go away like the others because they didn't understand the death and resurrection, Only you have the words of eternal life.
John 12:44-45; Every age was to believe by faith in God and the revelation of God they had.
Jesus was Prophet, Priest and King and he taught the Mosaic law of which we were never under and the KoH and the KoG message of which was their earthly covenant promise and not the church and he will be king in the future. Context. Jerry kelso

If you were blind you should have no sin Jerry. Bye.

 

[SnowyMacie]

(Blind Post)

No, there's 4.

 

[kingskid]

There is one gospel. No divisions.
Colossians 3:11 KJV
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

 

[jerry kelso]

Jerry I know you don't fear Christ, and niether do you understand the work of God.



John 17:20-23King James Version (KJV)
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

istandbyjesus,
1. You are pretty bold when you haven't rebutted anything I said.
If I didnt' fear God I would play it safe and agree with you.
2. You say I don't understand the work of God and yet you give no proof at all to prove the scriptural context that I have given on both contexts.
3. You give John 17:20 I agree with, but it has nothing to do with the context of the gospel of the Kingdom of God to the jew and how they were to receive God and the Kingdom of Heaven.
4. At least you could have given some kind of rebuttal or reason for why Peter didn't know nothing about the death, burial, and resurrection message in John 6 and Matthew 16. You can disagree but you have to understand context and how to give a proper rebuttal otherwise it is just your opinion. That is not rightly dividing the word. Feel free to try again. Jerry kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

If you were blind you should have no sin Jerry. Bye.

istandbyjesus,
I am not blind but I am willing to be fair in the exegesis of the word and believe the truth because it is true. You need to learn proper hermeneutics. Anybody can disagree and share their view but it is another to give proper reasoning of why you believe what you believe and why the other person is incorrect. . It is not about arguing and saying they are blind or don't fear God unless you have good proof by scripture that they are. I don't know you but I am not going to say that about you because I believe you lack knowledge. All I ask is be fair in scriptural proof and debate and rebuttal. You are free to try again. Jerry Kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

There is one gospel. No divisions.
Colossians 3:11 KJV
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

kingskid,

1. There is only one gospel pertaining to the overall plan of God.

2. Every age had different revelations of God and a different way to attain to righteousness to him.

3. Every age had to believe by grace through faith in whatever revelation they had about a sacrifice.

4. Adam and Eve sinned and God gave the first prophecy of the Messiah with the enmity of the seed and the bruising of his head and bruising of the heel.
Abel gave a sacrifice and Cain killed him and Enoch walked with God and was translated. I doubt they understood the prophecy of the Messiah.

5. The Law had types and shadows and their righteousness was doing to live and was to believe in God. They understood about the sacrifice of bulls and goats, even in Jesus day. Throughout the law and the prophets the picture was bigger but veiled in types and shadows and pointed to the Messiah and the Day of the Lord and the kingdom being set up.

6. The law and the prophets prophesied until John. This is because the reality in the person of Jesus Christ was there.

7. Jesus was the transition between law and grace. He had to fulfill the law and by his death the law was abolished because it was only till the seed should come because the law had reached its goal (Romans 10:4).

8. Paul said the gospel was the death, burial, and the resurrection and this is what we believe in at Calvary.
Jesus did not teach this revelation to the jews under the law of Moses. The disciples didn't have a clue what he was talking about in John 6 and Matthew 16 when the nation of Israel rejected him (Matthew 23:37-39).
They were to believe that he was the Messiah (John 1:31) and that he would forgive their sins for entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven earthly reign (Matthew 4:17). The Kingdom of God was spiritual to attain to God as in Matthew 6:33; seeking the KoG and his righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you and (Luke 17:20-21) comes without observation for the KoG is within you. They were to be born again (John 3). Born of water stood for the Red Sea deliverance and the second time they would be delivered by the Spirit and given a new heart and a new spirit (Ezekiel 36:26-27).

9. Jesus hardly said anything about his death and resurrection before his being rejected and they have to be understood in their proper context.

10. John 6 and Matthew 16 Peter and the disciples didn't understand the death, burial, and the resurrection.
The context of the jewish nation coming to Christ by believing in Christ and forgiveness of sins without the revelation of the death and resurrection doesn't do away with a sacrifice of sins or the redemption plan as being one gospel for it is relative to a sacrifice in the types and shadows.

11. Today we confess and believe in our heart in Jesus death, burial, and resurrection. This is recorded in Romans 10:9-10. We have the total fulness of grace and truth (John 1:17).

12. So we have two different covenant; law and grace. Law of Moses for jews and Grace for jew and gentile. 2 different ways to attain to salvation because of gradual revelation. Jews under law of Moses had to believe in Christ for forgiveness of sins for entrance into the physical KoH earthly reign. Jews and gentiles all are saved by believing in the revelation of the finished work of Christ specifically and his blood for the remission of sins to be saved. One gospel of redemption pointing to the Messiah and after the fact but two different ways to attain to the revelation of that one gospel. Jerry Kelso

 

[Open Heart]

The law was merely the school master until faith came and it counted everyone under sin.

You don't think the NT has a lot to say about sin and obedience? " Keeping God's commands is what counts." 1 Cor 7:19

 

[Open Heart]

Absolutely. At the present time God makes NO DISTINCTION between Jew and Gentile. All have sinned ("all under sin") and all need to repent and be converted (Rom 3:9-21). There is a false teaching floating around that Jews do not really need the Gospel and do not need to be saved by grace through faith in Christ and His finished work. But the Messianic Jews understand that they must be born again. What they don't understand is that there is absolutely no distinction between Jew and Gentile today (Gal 3:26-29) and that all are "Abraham's seed" by faith.

Actually most Messianic Jews take the Bilateral Approach, meaning that while we believe Jews and Gentiles stand equal before God (there is no Jew nor Greek) that when it comes to obedience, Jews are to obey the Mosaic law while Gentiles are to obey the New Testament laws. To say that Gentiles are Abraham's seed is speaking figuratively, like when Jews will say that a Gentile has a heart of a Jew.

 

[Open Heart]

To say Israel was not in this picture of the prodigal son

Again, it is a story about inividuals, not about the people of Israel as a group. AND since it is a story about individuals, ANY individual of ANY nation can apply it to themselves.

 

[Open Heart]

There is one gospel. No divisions.
Colossians 3:11 KJV
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

There is one Gospel. There are two sets of laws to be obedient to. There has always been Israel and the Nations. We are equal when we stand before God in judgment (there is no Jew nor Greek) but we have different standards here on earth, just as men and women have different jobs.

 

[Winken]

There is one Gospel. There are two sets of laws to be obedient to. There has always been Israel and the Nations. We are equal when we stand before God in judgment (there is no Jew nor Greek) but we have different standards here on earth, just as men and women have different jobs.

Does a Jew automatically inherit salvation?

Does a Messianic Jew do anything to inherit salvation?

 

[Winken]

istandbyjesus,
Anybody can disagree and share their view but it is another to give proper reasoning of why you believe what you believe and why the other person is incorrect. . It is not about arguing ......

Amen....... "proper reasoning" for the Christian must be energized by the Holy Spirit, not brain-power. The Holy Spirit energizes me to agree with your presentation, Jerry Kelso.

 

[Open Heart]

Does a Jew automatically inherit salvation?

That's a good question. I don't have an easy answer. Paul says that "As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs" Romans 11;28