Are There Really Two Gospels?

[jerry kelso]

My church has not quite settled the issue of non-believing Jews and whether they must become Christians or whether they need only their own covenant.

Pope St John Paul II taught that Jews were saved by their own covenant, and this is still taught by Cardinals Kasper and Schoenborn today. "Francis is quite possibly the most philo-Semitic pope in history, and in November of 2013 he published his Evangelii Gaudium (“The Joy of the Gospel”) which included a section on the Catholic Church’s “relations with Judaism.” In it he asserts, “We hold the Jewish people in special regard because their covenant with God has never been revoked…” " http://richardedmondson.net/2014/01/13/the-jewish-covenant-with-god-according-to-pope-francis-2/

But Pope Emeritus Benedict teaches that Jews must become Christians, and altered the Good Friday prayer for the Jews that they become converted. He is backed by conservatives in the Curia.

The Catholic Church moves at glacial pace, which makes it very powerful as glaciers carve out granite, but that means we can expect vacillation on this for a long long time.

open heart,

1. Scripturally jew and gentile are in one body of Christ by the new testament in his blood for the middle wall of the partition had been broken down, the abolishment of the law contained in ordinances to make of himself of twain, one new man making peace/ And that he might reconcile both unto God into one body by the cross having slain the enmity (Ephesians 2:13-16).

2. Jews saved today can still be a jew culturally and even be in the nation. However, the jews that will be a part of the covenant and the nation concerning the millennial reign will be the generation in the time of Jacob's trouble (Matthew 24:9-21).

3. Jews today are not saved in their own covenant. When the remnant (Zechariah 13:9, Revelation 12:17 and the nation preserved in the wilderness Revelation 12:6,14-17) are united when Christ sets up the kingdom and they become a nation born in one day (Isaiah 66:7-8) is when Israel will repent and the Lord will forgive them of their sins and then will Jeremiah 31:31-32 and Hebrews 8:7-13 be the new covenant fulfilled for Israel. Jerry kelso

 

[Open Heart]

The sons of Jacob are the symbol of the Prodigal son

No we aren't. The prodigal son is simply anyone who is rebellious.

 

[jerry kelso]

For some reason...I see it all about faith for everyone. Even with the law..for the law included everyone under sin..Jews and Gentiles...righteouness it said is revealed from faith to faith....with that in mind..it was all about faith. After faith was revealed the Jews had to believe on him like we all do...So at what point did they possess salvation? IS THE ANSWER WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIND..THE ISSUES THEN BECOMES THE QUESTION OF WHAT SCRIPTURE R SPEAKING OF OUR TRANSFORMATION..AND WHICH of Justification.....

corinth77777,

1. Faith was in every age. They had to have faith in whatever revelation they received from God.Conscience was the revelation in the antediluvian period. The written law was written by Moses but they still had a conscience but they were still two different covenants.

2. Law was in every age and was gradual and had different rules in different ways of how God administered it. The blessings and cursing system of specific blessings and judgements was in effect. Under the new covenant we have blessings and we can concur judgements but not in the same manner. These are two different covenants.

3. Righteousness was in all ages but with different meanings. Righteousness under the law was those that do the commandments shall live in them. Our Righteousness is through faith in the death, burial, and resurrection. These are two different covenants and two different ethics. The law was doing to attain and the new covenant is being who we are in Christ and his finished work to attain the commandment.

4. There is one gospel of redemption for the soul overall and that is the death, burial and resurrection and every age was looking to that by way of gradual revelation through types and shadow etc. They were all different covenants.

5. The context of 2 gospels such as contained in the law of Moses and in the new covenant of Christ. This is because under the law of Moses they received Christ by believing he was the Messiah and that he would forgive their sins.

6. The new covenant is based on the finished work of Christ which the law keepers didn't have. This is why at Calvary both were perfected together at the same time (Hebrews 11:40).
The covenants have to be understood in stewardships of gradual revelation to know how they are different to understood how God dealt with men in each age and why he dealt differently with them. Do you understand any of this? This is what the scripture teaches. Jerry kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

No we aren't. The prodigal son is simply anyone who is rebellious.

open heart,

1. The parables were about the rejection of Christ. Those in the vineyard and killed the servants etc. till they got down to the son. They didn't respect the son and the father would punish those who killed his son. This happened in the rejection of Christ and he was killed by the jews.

2. The prodigal son shows that the son rejected his inheritance and squandered but came back and the father restored him to his inheritance. This shows that Israel was backslidden and would come back to God. This didn't happen in Jesus day because they rejected him, but it will in the future when he sets up the KoH and saves the jews under the new covenant and Jeremiah 31:31-32 and Hebrews 8:7-13 and Isaiah 2:2-4 will be fulfilled.

3. This doesn't mean that the prodigal son cannot stand for one who is rebellious. The problem is the church is taught this so much that people stay bound under the spirit of the law and the struggle it causes and the defeated attitude.

4. The gospels were not written to the church of today for there was no new testament church in Jesus day. They all lived under the law. They were backslidden and out of covenant and the salt eventually lost its savor and was trodden under the foot of men. The gates of hell shall never prevail against the church and the true church has never been trodden under the foot of men as Israel has.

5. At the same time this doesn't mean that the gospels are not for us to learn from and we can certainly apply moral ethics in our lives for we are in a war and could be caught off guard at anytime. But it is not the new covenant in its historical context of the law. Law and Grace cannot be mixed or else the struggle begins. Jerry kelso

 

[Berean777]

No we aren't. The prodigal son is simply anyone who is rebellious.

The Son who is symbolised as the youngest, meaning smallest in faith went to a far country and sold his inheritence. Jews who have not accepted Christ fall under that category.

 

[Job8]

So you are saying that you so not want Jews to go to the Catholic Church to receive Christ as their Lord and Savior and be baptised?

You know as well as I do that that is not where it stops. Jews do not need all the Catholic baggage of "Holy Tradition", just after they have abandoned the traditions of the elders and the traditions of men.

 

[Open Heart]

The Son who is symbolised as the youngest, meaning smallest in faith went to a far country and sold his inheritence. Jews who have not accepted Christ fall under that category.

Yes, but so do CHRISTIANS who have known the Lord and yet fall away.

 

[jerry kelso]

Yes, but so do CHRISTIANS who have known the Lord and yet fall away.

open heart,
Parables were to illustrate truth and by and large most of the parables were historically about the jewish nation.
The church is not in the historical context and many of the church do not know the historical context of the gospels period because they think Jesus was teaching the death, burial, and resurrection message in the KoH and the KoG message and he wasn't.
At the same time, there is nothing wrong with using it as an example of God's mercy for backslidden christians as well.
The problems with the gospels as a whole with some is that misunderstanding can cause the focus on the law mentality of doing instead of being, and struggling in sin instead of overcoming sin and abstaining from sin. Jerry Kelso

 

[Open Heart]

You know as well as I do that that is not where it stops. Jews do not need all the Catholic baggage of "Holy Tradition", just after they have abandoned the traditions of the elders and the traditions of men.

Sure we believe in the authority of the church which means traditions, but the PRIMARY teaching of Catholicism is to repent, renounce Satan, profess Christ crucified, risen and coming again, be baptized, and give him your very life, walking in obedience and faith. In other words, THE GOSPEL.

Do you think Jews need that Gospel?

 

[jerry kelso]

Sure we believe in the authority of the church which means traditions, but the PRIMARY teaching of Catholicism is to repent, renounce Satan, profess Christ crucified, risen and coming again, be baptized, and give him your very life, walking in obedience and faith. In other words, THE GOSPEL.

Do you think Jews need that Gospel?

open heart,
Peter thought so of the true gospel of the death and resurrection message and the rest of the disciples did too for Jesus sent them out with this message (Acts 1:8). Jerry Kelso

 

[Open Heart]

Parables were to illustrate truth and by and large most of the parables were historically about the jewish nation.

Jesus' parables were primarily about individuals. Not Israel.

 

[corinth77777]

corinth77777,

1. Faith was in every age. Tey had to have faith in whatever revelation they received from God.Conscience was the revelation in the antediluvian period. The written law was written by Moses but they still had a conscience but they were still two different covenants.

2. Law was in every age and was gradual and had different rules in different ways of how God administered it. The blessings and cursing system of specific blessings and judgements was in effect. Under the new covenant we have blessings and we can concur judgements but not in the same manner. These are two different covenants.

3. Righteousness was in all ages but with different meanings. Righteousness under the law was those that do the commandments shall live in them. Our Righteousness is through faith in the death, burial, and resurrection. These are two different covenants and two different ethics. The law was doing to attain and the new covenant is being who we are in Christ and his finished work to attain the commandment.

4. There is one gospel of redemption for the soul overall and that is the death, burial and resurrection and every age was looking to that by way of gradual revelation through types and shadow etc. They were all different covenants.

5. The context of 2 gospels such as contained in the law of Moses and in the new covenant of Christ. This is because under the law of Moses they received Christ by believing he was the Messiah and that he would forgive their sins.

6. The new covenant is based on the finished work of Christ which the law keepers didn't have. This is why at Calvary both were perfected together at the same time (Hebrews 11:40).
The covenants have to be understood in stewardships of gradual revelation to know how they are different to understood how God dealt with men in each age and why he dealt differently with them. Do you understand any of this? This is what the scripture teaches. Jerry kelso

I know that It all started with the covenant God made to abraham. The law was merely the school master until faith came and it counted everyone under sin....so if the law was really meant to save then it would annual the promise to Abraham. SO THERE IS ONE GOSPEL DIrECTECTED AT different types of people..it was told before hand and its here today...and that is to Trust Jesus..in him we find our King, our deliver our atonement.The full gospel.

 

[Job8]

Do you think Jews need that Gospel?

Absolutely. At the present time God makes NO DISTINCTION between Jew and Gentile. All have sinned ("all under sin") and all need to repent and be converted (Rom 3:9-21). There is a false teaching floating around that Jews do not really need the Gospel and do not need to be saved by grace through faith in Christ and His finished work. But the Messianic Jews understand that they must be born again. What they don't understand is that there is absolutely no distinction between Jew and Gentile today (Gal 3:26-29) and that all are "Abraham's seed" by faith.

 

[ISTANDBYJESUS]

The following website contains various articles from the Mid-Acts Perspective.

One of them, "Are There Really Two Gospels?," has yet to be disproven.

Biblical Advanced Basics - Doctrinal Topics

If a man receives a gospel not according to the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John found in the king James bible: that man has not received the gospel.

 

[Berean777]

No one can come to the Father except through the Son. If it were possible under the Mosaic law then there would not be a plan for the Son of righteousness to spring out of the lineage of David, thereby fulfilling prophesy that the messiah was primarily sent to the Jews. Now Jesus preached the gospel that is symbolised as the flying scroll in Zechariah and sent his disciples first to the Jews and if they rejected it then the curse enters their house. This curse stands so long as they refuse to say blessed is Jesus who came in the name of the Lord.

Just like there was a curse on the men of Nineveh which was lifted when they repented at the preaching of Jonah, the Jews as a nation can only lift this curse if they accept the preaching from the Men of Nineveh. God has an amazing way to go full circle as Jesus said the Men of Nineveh shall rise up and condemn this generation. What many people refuse to acknowledge is that God has his method and on the other hand, man wants his way.
Throughout history God has always used the Assyrians to reel back a backsliding Jewish nation. In the past it had been done militarily. Yet today Assyrians are the weaklings of the world and God will use his handy work from a spiritual context to reel back the backsliding Jewish nation. What many don't realise is how close in semitic culture the Jews and the Assyrians are. The hebrew alphabets use the Assyrian script and if any nation in the world can convince the Jews as a nation to accept Christ, it would be the Assyrians (Men of Nineveh). That is why the first point of call by Peter and the Jewish apostles was to the church at Babylon located in Iraq which was the Assyrian church. Peter woukd not even contemplate to preach to the gentile nations at that time and the reason for this was because he knew the formulae for the highway to heaven had to include God's handy work the Assyrians.

 

[Berean777]

Isaiah 19
23In that day there will be a highway from Egypt to Assyria. The Assyrians will go to Egypt and the Egyptians to Assyria. The Egyptians and Assyrians will worship together. 24In that day Israel will be the third, along with Egypt and Assyria, a blessingb on the earth.25The Lord Almighty will bless them, saying, “Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria my handiwork, and Israel my inheritance.”

 

[jerry kelso]

If a man receives a gospel not according to the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John found in the king James bible: that man has not received the gospel.

istandbyjesus,

1. The gospel of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus was not taught in the KoH and the KoG message.

2. When Jesus told them after the KoH and the KoG message was rejected by the jews Jesus began explaining about going to be killed and his own disciples they didn't understand. John 6 said eat my flesh and drink my blood and they didn't get it.

3. When Peter said he wouldn't let anyone kill him and Jesus said get behind me Satan for you don't savor the things of God Peter didn't understand the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (Matthew 16:21-23).

4. They understood of a sacrifice through types and shadows before Christ and then the reality came and they were to believe in Jesus and recognize him as the Messiah for entrance in the KoH earthly reign (Hebrews 10:1:31).
Every age had to believe in the revelation they received and this is why they will be judged accordingly (Romans 2:12-16) and the jews didn't have the full revelation until Christ died (Hebrews 9:16-17) and even then Christ had to expound the law and the prophets for the disciples to completely digest the big picture (Luke 24:44-49).

5. The gospel of redemption is the same through out all the ages because it pointed to Jesus and forgiveness of sins at Calvary. But everybody in different ages only had part of the picture and could only respond to salvation by the revelation God gave to come to him whether through conscience, written law or the cross (Romans 2:12-16).

6. Everyone in each age had to believe in faith according to their revelation which was not the same even though it pointed to the same savior and restoration of man from sin.
If these two contexts are not understood it causes much confusion and wrong doctrines can spring up from them. Jerry Kelso

 

[Willie T]

Maybe you should consider a third. The gospel of the kingdom.

At last..... someone who actually reads what the Bible says.

 

[ISTANDBYJESUS]

istandbyjesus,

1. The gospel of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus was not taught in the KoH and the KoG message.

2. When Jesus told them after the KoH and the KoG message was rejected by the jews Jesus began explaining about going to be killed and his own disciples they didn't understand. John 6 said eat my flesh and drink my blood and they didn't get it.

3. When Peter said he wouldn't let anyone kill him and Jesus said get behind me Satan for you don't savor the things of God Peter didn't understand the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (Matthew 16:21-23).

4. They understood of a sacrifice through types and shadows before Christ and then the reality came and they were to believe in Jesus and recognize him as the Messiah for entrance in the KoH earthly reign (Hebrews 10:1:31).
Every age had to believe in the revelation they received and this is why they will be judged accordingly (Romans 2:12-16) and the jews didn't have the full revelation until Christ died (Hebrews 9:16-17) and even then Christ had to expound the law and the prophets for the disciples to completely digest the big picture (Luke 24:44-49).

5. The gospel of redemption is the same through out all the ages because it pointed to Jesus and forgiveness of sins at Calvary. But everybody in different ages only had part of the picture and could only respond to salvation by the revelation God gave to come to him whether through conscience, written law or the cross (Romans 2:12-16).

6. Everyone in each age had to believe in faith according to their revelation which was not the same even though it pointed to the same savior and restoration of man from sin.
If these two contexts are not understood it causes much confusion and wrong doctrines can spring up from them. Jerry Kelso

Faith(believing Jesus is Christ the Lord: who is God) comes by hearing the word of God by the gospel(Matthew, Mark, Luke and John in the king James bible) If a man can not hear the truth, he is destined for condemnation at the judgment.

 

[ISTANDBYJESUS]

istandbyjesus,

1. The gospel of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus was not taught in the KoH and the KoG message.

2. When Jesus told them after the KoH and the KoG message was rejected by the jews Jesus began explaining about going to be killed and his own disciples they didn't understand. John 6 said eat my flesh and drink my blood and they didn't get it.

3. When Peter said he wouldn't let anyone kill him and Jesus said get behind me Satan for you don't savor the things of God Peter didn't understand the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (Matthew 16:21-23).

4. They understood of a sacrifice through types and shadows before Christ and then the reality came and they were to believe in Jesus and recognize him as the Messiah for entrance in the KoH earthly reign (Hebrews 10:1:31).
Every age had to believe in the revelation they received and this is why they will be judged accordingly (Romans 2:12-16) and the jews didn't have the full revelation until Christ died (Hebrews 9:16-17) and even then Christ had to expound the law and the prophets for the disciples to completely digest the big picture (Luke 24:44-49).

5. The gospel of redemption is the same through out all the ages because it pointed to Jesus and forgiveness of sins at Calvary. But everybody in different ages only had part of the picture and could only respond to salvation by the revelation God gave to come to him whether through conscience, written law or the cross (Romans 2:12-16).

6. Everyone in each age had to believe in faith according to their revelation which was not the same even though it pointed to the same savior and restoration of man from sin.
If these two contexts are not understood it causes much confusion and wrong doctrines can spring up from them. Jerry Kelso

Further More, read John 17kjb, Jesus is also praying for those that believe on him through their word, his disciples at that time, such as Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. I thank my God that I received the witness of Matthew, and know that Christ him self prayed for me in John 17.