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Are There Really Two Gospels?
- Thread starter Danoh
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In Acts 10 Peter took the Gospel of the kingdom to Cornelius and his household. The Gospel of the kingdom is not the mystery that was later revealed to Paul. The mystery of the grace of God was revealed to Paul and Paul then revealed it to Peter. The Gospel of the kingdom is not the same as the Gospel of grace.
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Ok....well maybe this is where I see no difference...or have not been given any evidence from scripture that proves a difference. FOR no ONE HAS EVEN STATED WHAT THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM IS...I see Jesus..as the only gospel...and faith the key....why would u say Peter took the gospel of the kingdom ....to Corn.....when its by grace that he was saved (given the spirit) at the moment of his faith?..From day one..from Abraham..it was by grace....the only mystery I see was thst the Gentiles have become part of the body..heirs with the jews by faith....
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I dont know about all that but.....isnt salvation found in his name....Isnt it written that peter said call upon him and you will be saved...Didnt peter preach how they and crucified their savior....and they were pricked in the heart...and ask what they must do...isnt those scriptures all about the cross?..and salvatiin found in Jesus the Christ? THERE IS ONE GOSPELAND maybe one can ssy progressive revelaion about the gospel..but not 2
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In post #43 you asked what is the gospel of the kingdom. In this post you say there is only one gospel. I can describe to you both gospels(kingdom and grace) which will be lenghty but if your mind is not going to be open to it then it will just be a waste of time and energy on my part.
Let me know if you want to continue with this.
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I am open to hearing......and Yes I believe there is one gospel...Jesus. If one presents clear evidence then we all should see it.
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King James BibleFor if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or[bless and do not curse]if[bless and do not curse]ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with[bless and do not curse]him.
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You're reading your understanding into things - Peter accused them of having killed their Messiah; he did not tell them said Messiah died for their sins.
Rather, that God had raised Him from the dead, as proof He was their Messiah: the Son of God. Also, that He would be coming back in judgment, but they could save themselves from that generation's judgment.
Pricked in their heart about what they had done [killed their Messiah] they asked what they should do and Peter told them to repent, or change their mind about who Christ had been, submit to what they, as Jews, would have understood was their water cleansing ritual under Moses as the mark of a good conscience toward God, and they would receive the promise of the Holy Ghost they also would have understood had been prophesied their submission to that sprinkling of clean water ritual would follow.
By the way, the Land Issue is connected to that - Ezekiel 36:
24. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Whereas, if you'll re-read Acts 10, Cornelius was blessed for having blessed Israel, as this aspect of the Abrahamic Covenant, Gen. 12, was still in place. It is this having blessed Israel as a Gentile fearing the God of Israel that Peter there refers to by his words, "... God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him," Acts 10: 1, 2, 35.
Still, there is another issue here, which is why Peter, in Acts 10, doubted being sent to a Gentile, as well as why his fellow circumcision Apostles, in Acts 11, took issue with him when they found out he had kept company with a Gentile.
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This allows me to be brief. Both the kingdom gospel and the gospel that Paul preached (the gospel of grace) of course concerns Jesus. The kingdom gospel was believing that Jesus was who He said He was, that is, the Christ. Peter and the apostles preached this message for salvation. The gospel of grace is more that just believing that Jesus is the Christ. It also requires the belief that He died for our sins, was buried and was raised the third day. This is the gospel of grace that Paul preached for salvation. The kingdom gospel is no longer in effect at this time. This is what Paul is saying in Gal chapter one. Today salvation requires belief in the gospel of grace.
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There is only one Gospel in the New Testament. Just like with other doctrines, it was revealed over time in parts until the New testament was finished. But it is all the same movement of God. The law of Moses was an expression of grace from a loving Father to his people. Salvation has always been by grace through faith. But faith has been expressed and lived out in different ways throughout history.
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Berean777
Servant of Christ Jesus. Stellar Son.
Does God have two spiritual brides?
In short No!
God made desolate the old covenant bride when he gave them the sign of Jonah and they as a nation failed to repent and come to Christ by saying blessed is he who came in the name of the Lord.
Revelation of John calls the old covenant bride after Christ left her a harlot. This is why the temple curtain was torn into two pieces down the middle to signal the separation of the groom from the old bride to now be with the new younger bride.
The same symbolic gesture was made by Christ when he exchanged the mother mule for the younger baby mule when entering Jeruslem. This signalled the prophesy that the Lord was divorcing the old covenant bride and choosing a younger bride as her replacement.
God is spiritually married to one bride, his new covenant church, whom he called Israel.
In short No!
God made desolate the old covenant bride when he gave them the sign of Jonah and they as a nation failed to repent and come to Christ by saying blessed is he who came in the name of the Lord.
Revelation of John calls the old covenant bride after Christ left her a harlot. This is why the temple curtain was torn into two pieces down the middle to signal the separation of the groom from the old bride to now be with the new younger bride.
The same symbolic gesture was made by Christ when he exchanged the mother mule for the younger baby mule when entering Jeruslem. This signalled the prophesy that the Lord was divorcing the old covenant bride and choosing a younger bride as her replacement.
God is spiritually married to one bride, his new covenant church, whom he called Israel.
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jerry kelso
Food For Thought
danoh,
1. The two gospels you speak of I would assume are law and grace and they would be doctrine.
2. If this is what you speak of one must understand the different context of the word gospel.
We all know gospel is the good news and the gospel of the kingdom was preached by John the Baptist and Jesus and the Gospel of the Grace of God by Paul.
The overall gospel of redemption is one if one says salvation of sins forgiven, saved by grace. It was always unmerited favor to save sinners. What makes them appear differently is the revelation revealed to them.
3. Gradual revelation went from conscience and making a sacrifice in the antediluvian period. Then there were the Patriarchs; Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob where God made the jewish nation began and to whom the promises were made and the covenants. Abrahams covenant was families of the earth being blessed and grace without works. Then the law came by God through Moses and came because of transgressions and was for a time till the seed of the Messiah should come. So now there was a written law. Redemption was allocated by their conscience and then the written law and then the crucified one at Calvary who was the reality of the types and the fullness of grace in the redemption plan of God.
4. Mark says the beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God which would be more specific to his role as Messiah to the jews who were to believe in Jesus to be born again.
5. The overall gospel of redemption is all related but unfolded in many contexts of gradual revelation throughout history and was allocated differently. In this context there is only one gospel which always had the sacrifice for sins to be for the whole world though limited in Adam and Eve's day and the types and shadows in the old covenant and even in the transition of Christ the reality. Now we have Jesus Christ who is the fulness of grace and truth by way of Calvary and the new covenant.
6. The difference of the context of the 2 gospels of the old and new covenants.
7. The gospel of the kingdom was a part of the old covenant given to Moses and Israel. The Kingdom of Heaven was the earthly kingdom reign (Matthew 4:17) and the Kingdom of God was the spiritual aspect (Matthew 6:33; Luke 17:20). This dealt with Israel's promises and callings of the physical kingdom reign on earth and the land. This is why Matthew 1 gives the geneologies of Abraham and David. Abraham was the land and families of the earth being blessed through Israel and David which God promised would always have a throne in his lineage and it was unconditional as far as coming to pass, but it was conditioned by obedience which will eventually happen.
8. The reason for the KoH and the KoG to be established is the restitution of all things and this is the kingdom that Peter was looking for and Christ said it is not for you to know the times and seasons. When the Day of Pentecost came to pass he recognized signs of the kingdom like the pouring of the Holy Spirit even though he knew it was not a fulfillment of Joel's prophecy. Peter still mentions the restitution of all things because he understood the signs.
9. The KoH and the KoG started in the garden of Eden. Adam and Eve ruled the garden and over all creation and they believe in God. When they sinned they lost the spiritual KoG and the physical kingdom which was represented by the garden for they were kicked out. God will not rule with man unless he has a holy heart.
Step up to Jesus day; the Mosaic law was in effect and Jesus taught it and preached the gospel of the kingdom which was only for jews (Matthew 10:6-7). This was never a message for the gentiles because the gentiles never had a covenant and were not under the law of Moses and the church has a heavenly calling though it has to do with reigning on the earth as well in the earthly kingdom. Israel will be at the head of the nations (Isaiah 2:2-4). Nonetheless, Jesus made the offer and the jews rejected him. It was always prophesied they would reject him and the jews missed him because they were focused on the physical kingdom and freedom from their oppressors of Rome and did not repent. Their rejection is found in (Matthew 23:37-39).
10. The kingdom message today is the kingdom of his dear son which is spiritual and not the KoH Jesus preached. Jesus never taught the death, burial, and resurrection to the jews under the KoH and the KoG message. He was teaching the Mosaic law and the only requirement for jews to be born again was to believe in Jesus and his forgiveness of sins in order to gain entrance into the earthly kingdom reign.
It was not until after the jewish nation rejected him that he started mentioning about the death and resurrection. And the last 40 days he still had to expound to his disciple what had transpired for they didn't fully understand it (Luke 24:44-49) Acts 1:3 he was telling about the kingdom of God and what their mission was.
11. If we suffer we shall reign; so we are being trained for ruler ship positions now in the earthly kingdom. We will be rapture before the tribulation the program for purging of the jews will begin. The last 3 and 1/2 years of the tribulation known as Jacob's trouble the gospel of the Kingdom will be preached to all nations (Matthew 24:14).
12. So the gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven is not the Gospel of the grace of God because it is about the physical rule of the earthly calling of Israel as head of the nations. This is different than the churches calling.
The Kingdom of God in Jesus day is slightly different than the gospel of the grace of God because their revelation was to believe in the Messiah to forgive them of their sins and bring them back into covenant. Even though the law could not save them, they were required to live the law as well.
13. The Kingdom of God today is mainly spiritual and the revelation is Christ finished work.
Paul said there is only one gospel for today and that is the death, burial, and resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
14. The overall redemption gospel is the same concerning the need of a sacrifice and it was given through different revelations upon different rules of how to attain to it.
The jews were under the Mosaic law and it was about doing looking towards the cross and we are looking back at the cross of what he did. We need to get out of doing and get into being according to the finished work of Christ. Jerry Kelso
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I have to take a stand that there is one gospel.. and that is the gospel of Christ. Included then isthat he is King now. AND WE CAN EXPERIENCE HIS BLESSINGS WHEN WE PUT OUR TRUST IN HIM...in him we find the atonement..As Abraham was credited righhteousness by beliving in him, so are we. WHAT DOES THAT SCRIPTURE SAY FROM FAITH TO FAITH. Romans 1; 17 If its all about a natural being having a spiritual experience....now and continued later then faith is the key...Trust Jesus
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THINKING OF SOME OF THE THINGS SAID...MUST GO BACK ..TO THE PASSAGE God In Christ reconciling the world to himself.
And I thought about how when a woman gets married her name changes....she is the same person but with a different responsibility....and if her husband died, and she took on another name her responsibility would change.....which does open my eyes up to a bit wider to understanding some of what you've said...But in the end its all about looking to Christ...which the word in itself must hold a specific meaning..as to one who changes their name. SINCE Godnever dies and peope do...I do wonderand have wondered Iif there was a difference between the kingdom of God and kingdom of heaven...Jesus Christ and Christ Jesus. THINKING SOME MORE IN 1 PETER 3 IT STATES " THIS IS THE baptism that saves us now" so yes what seems to be 2 is really in my opinion is one. I can't really clarify that right now...but In time I believe revelation does. But I say that because I read there is one Lord , one Faith, and one Baptism and everything must add up in the end to that.
And I thought about how when a woman gets married her name changes....she is the same person but with a different responsibility....and if her husband died, and she took on another name her responsibility would change.....which does open my eyes up to a bit wider to understanding some of what you've said...But in the end its all about looking to Christ...which the word in itself must hold a specific meaning..as to one who changes their name. SINCE Godnever dies and peope do...I do wonderand have wondered Iif there was a difference between the kingdom of God and kingdom of heaven...Jesus Christ and Christ Jesus. THINKING SOME MORE IN 1 PETER 3 IT STATES " THIS IS THE baptism that saves us now" so yes what seems to be 2 is really in my opinion is one. I can't really clarify that right now...but In time I believe revelation does. But I say that because I read there is one Lord , one Faith, and one Baptism and everything must add up in the end to that.
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jerry kelso
Food For Thought
corinth7777,
Context of gradual revelation of how God dealt with man is what must be understood to understand the truth.
The KoH physically is the earthly reign with Israel as the head of the nations and the church having rulership roles as well. The KoH spiritually are the things contained in the physical KoH.
The KoG physically is the whole physical universe of which the earth is a tiny little sphere that is out of harmony with the KoG physical.
The KoG spiritually is the spiritual rule in our heart.
The law of Moses was for Israel and not the gentiles. The jews rejected Jesus and the new testament in his blood is now in effect for jew and gentile who are in the church.
There is one overall gospel of redemption that all pointed to Christ and Calvary. It came in gradual revelation in different ages.
The law of Moses in Jesus day the jews had to keep and they had to believe that Jesus was the Messiah and that he would forgive their sins in order to gain entrance in the KoH physical. They didn't understand the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus because he did not teach it. After they rejected him he started to tell his disciples and was still telling them before he went back to heaven because they didn't fully understand. They were looking to the cross and we are looking back to the cross. Jesus teachings were do, do, do and today we are to believe by faith in what he did, what he did, what he did.
The two gospels is seen in the context of how they were to come to God. Jews believed in Jesus to forgive sins without knowledge of the new covenant in its fullness. We have the new covenant in its fullness and have the knowledge they didn't have and this is what our lives are based on. At Calvary was when both old testament saints and new testament saints were perfected together for the old testament saints though saved were only covered. Calvary perfected completely the saved. Jerry Kelso
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Open Heart
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My church has not quite settled the issue of non-believing Jews and whether they must become Christians or whether they need only their own covenant.
Pope St John Paul II taught that Jews were saved by their own covenant, and this is still taught by Cardinals Kasper and Schoenborn today. "Francis is quite possibly the most philo-Semitic pope in history, and in November of 2013 he published his Evangelii Gaudium (“The Joy of the Gospel”) which included a section on the Catholic Church’s “relations with Judaism.” In it he asserts, “We hold the Jewish people in special regard because their covenant with God has never been revoked…” " http://richardedmondson.net/2014/01/13/the-jewish-covenant-with-god-according-to-pope-francis-2/
But Pope Emeritus Benedict teaches that Jews must become Christians, and altered the Good Friday prayer for the Jews that they become converted. He is backed by conservatives in the Curia.
The Catholic Church moves at glacial pace, which makes it very powerful as glaciers carve out granite, but that means we can expect vacillation on this for a long long time.
Pope St John Paul II taught that Jews were saved by their own covenant, and this is still taught by Cardinals Kasper and Schoenborn today. "Francis is quite possibly the most philo-Semitic pope in history, and in November of 2013 he published his Evangelii Gaudium (“The Joy of the Gospel”) which included a section on the Catholic Church’s “relations with Judaism.” In it he asserts, “We hold the Jewish people in special regard because their covenant with God has never been revoked…” " http://richardedmondson.net/2014/01/13/the-jewish-covenant-with-god-according-to-pope-francis-2/
But Pope Emeritus Benedict teaches that Jews must become Christians, and altered the Good Friday prayer for the Jews that they become converted. He is backed by conservatives in the Curia.
The Catholic Church moves at glacial pace, which makes it very powerful as glaciers carve out granite, but that means we can expect vacillation on this for a long long time.
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So long as Jews do not turn to the Catholic Church, this vacillation is very good (other than the fact that Scripture discourages vacillation). Back to the OP, there is and can only be one true Gospel of salvation by grace through faith in the Person and finished work of Christ, plus nothing.
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Open Heart
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So you are saying that you so not want Jews to go to the Catholic Church to receive Christ as their Lord and Savior and be baptised?
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Berean777
Servant of Christ Jesus. Stellar Son.
The sons of Jacob are the symbol of the Prodigal son who went to a far country and wasted his inheritance on the things of this world and therefore he became servant to the prince of this world and his swines (symbol of uncleanliness). The eldest son is the symbol of the church consisting of the 1st (Jewish Apostles & Gentiles), 3rd (Gentiles), 6th (Gentiles) and 9th (Gentiles) hour workmen who always was beside the Father from the onset of the gospel of hope, that God had planned throughout the history of mankind through his beloved and only begotten Son Jesus Christ.
When the Son of Jacob realize that they are in the swine of things they will come back as the 11th hour workmen through the Son and his redemptive gospel of hope and salvation.
Is there two gospels for the Christians and also for the unbelieving sons of Jacob?
No, there is only one path and one solution (CHARA) to man's certain impending judgement of eternal death after the earthly house is dissolved.
Some Advocates of interfaith ecumenical movements say that since we are all from Adam, then we are all one family and because Adam was made in the image of God, therefore all are tied to God through their different spiritual paths.
The statement above is flawed and riddled with presumptuous errors. For example as Christians our father is not Adam and we consider that our connection to Adam is been buried and done away with when we accepted Christ in our lives. So we now are adopted into a new family as a new creation in Christ and therefore we consider Adam, our fleshly lineage and the world dead to us and therefore we have a heavenly Father where we call out ABBA (Father).
So there are those fleshies from Adam and the born again in Spirit from Christ and in that regard we fall under God's solution (CHARA) of Grace and those fleshies of Adam are under the wrath and condemnation of God, because they fall under the Mosaic Law, along with its curses.
One group is pro-life and are alive in Christ through the one and only gospel that God throughout the entire Bible has provided and the other is pro-death camp who are men on death row, ready to be eternally destroyed after their earthly house is dissolved.
If leaders of organized denominations do not know this separation, then they are plainly playing politics and have no loyalty to Christ and are of this world and have through their works tried to appease the world at the cost of preaching the gospel as part and parcel of the great commission prerogative.
When the Son of Jacob realize that they are in the swine of things they will come back as the 11th hour workmen through the Son and his redemptive gospel of hope and salvation.
Is there two gospels for the Christians and also for the unbelieving sons of Jacob?
No, there is only one path and one solution (CHARA) to man's certain impending judgement of eternal death after the earthly house is dissolved.
Some Advocates of interfaith ecumenical movements say that since we are all from Adam, then we are all one family and because Adam was made in the image of God, therefore all are tied to God through their different spiritual paths.
The statement above is flawed and riddled with presumptuous errors. For example as Christians our father is not Adam and we consider that our connection to Adam is been buried and done away with when we accepted Christ in our lives. So we now are adopted into a new family as a new creation in Christ and therefore we consider Adam, our fleshly lineage and the world dead to us and therefore we have a heavenly Father where we call out ABBA (Father).
So there are those fleshies from Adam and the born again in Spirit from Christ and in that regard we fall under God's solution (CHARA) of Grace and those fleshies of Adam are under the wrath and condemnation of God, because they fall under the Mosaic Law, along with its curses.
One group is pro-life and are alive in Christ through the one and only gospel that God throughout the entire Bible has provided and the other is pro-death camp who are men on death row, ready to be eternally destroyed after their earthly house is dissolved.
If leaders of organized denominations do not know this separation, then they are plainly playing politics and have no loyalty to Christ and are of this world and have through their works tried to appease the world at the cost of preaching the gospel as part and parcel of the great commission prerogative.
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For some reason...I see it all about faith for everyone. Even with the law..for the law included everyone under sin..Jews and Gentiles...righteouness it said is revealed from faith to faith....with that in mind..it was all about faith. After faith was revealed the Jews had to believe on him like we all do...So at what point did they possess salvation? IS THE ANSWER WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO FIND..THE ISSUES THEN BECOMES THE QUESTION OF WHAT SCRIPTURE R SPEAKING OF OUR TRANSFORMATION..AND WHICH of Justification.....
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