Are instruments in worship allowed?

[Paul Yohannan]

When the Greeks came to the US, they adapted some US customs and added pews and organs. Russians typically dont have organs or pews but they use Western music notation so it works well for them. The Greeks added the organs and attempted to adapt the music to Western notation. It "sort of" works. Even with a good organist, the music sounds "off" except for Tone 8 which is a close match to a major scale. There have been attempts to train chanters by Holy Cross seminary (I'm a former seminarian), but not sure how successful it has been. You do find some chanters who grew up in Greece, but even these can be a hit or miss proposition. Priests have enough musical training to be able to teach some of the basics (every semester had a chant component to it). The monk Seraphim Dedes and the St. Anthony's monastery near Cleveland have developed some online materials as well.

The Greek Orthodox of Ionia have organs.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

The Greek Orthodox of Ionia have organs.

For the love of Byzantine music... WHYYYYY!!!!

 

[Paul Yohannan]

For the love of Byzantine music... WHYYYYY!!!!

Ask the Doge of Venice.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Darned Latins! I grew up Missouri Synod Lutheran and love good organ music. However, I have found most church organists simply play way way too slowly and the Greeks are among the worst of the lot. Our organist makes Christos Anesti a dirge... This is the proper speed:

She can drag it out for several more minutes

 

[Landon Caeli]

 

[prodromos]

It's safe to say that without the use of an instrument in composing the song, quality of the song suffers significantly.

That isn't true at all. All byzantine hymns have been composed without the use of an instrument, and I find those hymns far superior to most contemporary worship songs.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Not sects. In basically whole Orthodox Church, as I am aware, only voice is allowed in service. No instrument in any capacity.

That's a tradition among the Eastern Orthodox Churches, but there there are Orthodox churches that have organs, for example, but are more likely to be found in the West. Likewise, pews are a uniquely Western thing, and are virtually unheard of in the East, but there are Orthodox churches in the West which have pew seating.

This isn't, as far as I'm aware, a matter of doctrine so much as it is simply the preservation of standard practice. The implementation of instruments was something that occurred in the West, but not in the East. So the use of instruments simply isn't normal from within the Eastern Christian practice, for the same reason that it's not standard practice for the congregation to stand through the whole service in the West like it is in the East.

As far as I know, very few churches exist which outright condemn the use of instruments as actually wrong. I'm only aware of some Church of Christ churches which forbid it on the basis that the New Testament says nothing one way or the other (a bizarre argument in my mind), it's certainly not part of any mainstream Christian line of thinking.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Alithis]

Yes, "faith cometh by hearing" and since God never said "play musical instruments" then that cannot be of "faith" since it was never "heard" and is thus "sin" since "whatsoever is not of faith is sin" (bear in mind I am not condemning the musical instruments and such, but "lawyering" the letter to show support for the idea "no musical instruments")



Singing psalms is commanded, playing instruments while singing psalms is not.



That is old covenant, and just because David included instruments in the old covenant doesn't guarentee the approval of God. Jacob practiced sympathetic magic, and Joseph practiced divination. Just because men do something doesn't give God's approval. But the scripture says "This is My beloved Son, hear Him" and Jesus never taught to play musical instruments in worship.



Sing psalms.



He doesn't have to tell you what "not" to do when you go by what he tells you "to" do. When you send someone to the store, do you tell them what not to get? Or simply tell them what to get?



It could go either way, so we ought not do it unless specifically commanded.



It does when your rules are based on what is said, and not on what is not said



Symbolism. What symbolic angels are doing is not a commandment from God to us.

Then nor is it forbidden .

 

[Alithis]

What I find to be of interest in a lot of this is that people think "singing " is worship.

"I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship."
That's worship .not the song one sings on Sunday before they return to sin on Monday...that no worship at all.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

I come from such a background, where anything not specifically stated was outlawed. I had long left it when I met and married my husband, but when I mentioned it to him, he asked me a simple question that made me giggle.

"Do they hold their services by candlelight? Because the Bible doesn't mention light bulbs either."

 

[Landon Caeli]

What I find to be of interest in a lot of this is that people think "singing " is worship.

"I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship."
That's worship .not the song one sings on Sunday before they return to sin on Monday...that no worship at all.

I guess my question then would be, how did the Jews of old worship God when they gathered together at the Temple... Admittedly, I know very little about Jewish worship.

EDIT: Here is some modern Jewish worship music.

In an orthodox Jewish setting, at the synagogue, we see some chant it seems.

 

[timothygrae]

I guess my question then would be, how did the Jews of old worship God when they gathered together at the Temple... Admittedly, I know very little about Jewish worship.

Psalm 150:3-5 says, "Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet, praise him with the harp and lyre, praise him with timbrel and dancing and pipe, praise him with the clash of cymbals, praise him with resounding cymbals." So clearly instruments were permitted, even encouraged, in Old Testament times.

However, the argument against instruments stems from the understanding that the New Testament, in introducing a new covenant, does not speak of using instruments. Personally if the Bible doesn't speak against it, or any other issue, then I think that means it's ok, so long as it fits with other Biblical direction, that is, that it is God-honouring, and loving towards your neighbour (but then, if it were contradictory to these, that would be speaking against it, wouldn't it?). However this question was likely raised by someone who is of the persuasion that God instructs, and if He has not specifically done so, it should be avoided. A sound principle, which I won't hazard to argue against, though I will say on this issue it is rather non-applicable.

Here's why: this question is built upon the assumption that music is how worship is achieved. Consider Romans 12:1, "I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship." Worship is anything you do in this life for the glory of God. Presenting yourself as a living sacrifice is a metaphorical representation of how we commit our lives to God; we give up our bodily desires FOR God. So in any circumstance we do something that is not for man's own glory, we are worshipping God. So titheing is worship. Giving to Opportunity shops is worship. Prayer is worship. Reading the Bible is worship. Any time we demonstrate submission to God, we are worshipping Him. We can sing to God in worship, we can play instruments to God in worship. If we do these things in reverance. So music is most certainly something that CAN be used for worship, but it is not what worship is. Worship occurs within the heart, and whether you use an instrument to express that heart state seems irrelevant to me.

Music is also a great means of evangelism (which is commanded unto us in the Great Commission in Matthew 28) as it speaks to a culture, it's engaging, and is scientifically demonstrated to be the only activity which stimulates every area of the brain, hence why it can both provoke and express such strong emotional reactions. So to be able to harnass that for God is truly extraordinary.

Basically, what this issue comes down to is the heart behind it, as it is with everything we do on this Earth.

 

[Kiterius]

I have no problem with music in worship, but please spare me from "liturgical dancers."

Please spare me from modern Worship Leaders and praise bands who want to turn church services into rock concerts.

 

[timothygrae]

Please spare me from modern Worship Leaders and praise bands who want to turn church services into rock concerts.

What's wrong with rock concerts?

 

[Kiterius]

What's wrong with rock concerts?

Nothing necessarily - but they aren't Christian worship services.

 

[timothygrae]

Nothing necessarily - but they aren't Christian worship services.

True, and I understand your point, whereby you don't want to place more reverance on the music than on God, but rock music is a musical style, and if you are trying to incinuate that there is something inherently evil to rock music, I find that wrong to suggest. It's about the heart behind the worshipper.

 

[Kiterius]

True, and I understand your point, whereby you don't want to place more reverance on the music than on God, but rock music is a musical style, and if you are trying to incinuate that there is something inherently evil to rock music, I find that wrong to suggest. It's about the heart behind the worshipper.

Christian rock music can certainly be used in worship.

 

[dqhall]

The use of music predates the Bible. There is a story about King David playing a harp to calm a maddened King Saul. The Book of Psalms contains words that may have been sung or accompanied by music. The Levites were supposed to have sung and played instruments during first temple times.

After eating supper (Lord's Supper), Jesus and disciples sang a hymn and went out to the Mt. of Olives.

Mark 4:22 As they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had blessed, he broke it, and gave to them, and said, "Take, eat. This is my body."
23He took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave to them. They all drank of it.
24He said to them, "This is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many. 25Most certainly I tell you, I will no more drink of the fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it anew in the Kingdom of God."
26When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.
(World English Bible - Public Domain)

 

[South Bound]

You mean to tell me that there are actually sects the forbid the playing of musical instruments? Seems sects really go out of their way, fabricating regulations like the Pharisees, to make their sect distinct from other sects and to justify unnecessarily creating divisions among Christians.

Many branches of the Church of Christ forbid instruments. Mennonite groups did not use instruments in worship for a long time, but I believe some Mennonite groups have allowed it in recent years.

Not to get off the topic, but I really enjoy sacred harp singing, which was a response to the unavailability of instruments, not the prohibition of instruments, and was adopted by some groups that do not allow instruments.

 

[Alithis]

What's wrong with rock concerts?

Please tell me your being blithe