Are instruments in worship allowed?

[HenryM]

I was reading a debate about playing instruments in worship, and found it to be fascinating issue. What's fascinating is that there's an issue at all.

I'm going to present a case why I believe instruments are allowed in worship, as secondary to voice, per preference and executed gracefully. I'm interested to hear what others think.

First, Jesus gives us two commandments upon which all law hangs - to love our God and to love one another (Matthew 22:37-40). At the same time, we are not under the law but under grace (Romans 6:14). And really, can love be established by law? It's absurd to even think that. Love is established by God's love towards us and by us loving Him and each other, through the help of His Spirit. So we really are not under the law but grace.

Right here, at the beginning, we see that "musical instrument in worship" can't be a law issue. It has to be preference executed respectfully and humbly, while being secondary to voice since everybody can sing.

Also, we are not given laws for worship ritual. We are given worship principle - to worship in spirit and in truth (John 4:23). And really, since we are worshipping God who is in Heaven and not of this world, we are to worship with nonmaterialistic part of our being - our soul - the only part of us that's connected to God through His Spirit. That's why there are no hard rules for "material" side of worship. Further, when we remember that we are not under the law but grace, it gets even clearer that materialistic part of our worship only follows the principle of doing it in spirit and in truth under grace.

Does playing an instrument in glory to God, respectfully and humbly, breaks the principle of worshipping in spirit and truth? I don't see it.

So, even before we get to technical parts of the issue, the issue is solved - instruments are allowed. At least that seems to me. But let's get somewhat technical.

...continued below

 

[HenryM]

Main argument from those opposed to instruments in worship comes from the principle of “silence of the scriptures” - anything not authorized is not permitted. They say that since using instruments in worship is not instructed, it is not allowed.

But, if the truth is that using instruments is, in fact, instructed and allowed, as it seems to me, main opposing argument is void from the start.

How is use of instruments instructed? It's a simple train of logic. New Testament acknowledges psalms as core collection of hymns to the God. And word "psalm" literally meant "to pluck the strings of a musical instrument", while it was later applied to singing praises to God with stringed instrument (see Greek Lexicons - Robinson, Thayer or Classic Greek Dictionary). No wonder, 24 psalms directly instruct the use of instruments in worship, either in the psalm heading or in the hymn itself. When something is repeated 24 times it has weight and probably has to be banned explicitly in order to be annulled.

Not only are psalms (with 24 that directly instruct the use of instruments) core collection of hymns to the God, but Paul says to "sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs" (Ephesians 5:19). He doesn't say "sing psalms, but whenever you come across one of many that directly instruct you to sing with an instrument, skip it completely, or don't play any instrument with it". By the way, some interpret the wording of second part of Ephesians 5:19 - sing and make music from your heart to the Lord - as if "sing and make music" is one action. It could be, but it could also be two actions: 1) sing with your heart and 2) make music with your heart. Especially when original term for "make music" is “psallo”, which means "to twitch or twang”, that is, to play on a stringed instrument. Those who interpret the verse as if it can only mean to "sing by way of plucking strings of a heart" are really hanging by a thread here, in my opinion.

But, even if there are no instructions to play instruments, although that's not true since there are 24 instructions in core collection of hymns to the God, it is natural to primarily bring up singing in New Testament - only few can play an instrument, but everybody can sing. Talking about singing doesn't mean playing an instrument is forbidden, it just means that singing has big natural primacy, since everybody can do it. The issue of singing itself, by the way, is not extensively talked about in New Testament. It's mentioned here and there. In that context, it's logical that instrumental accompany, which comes secondary and per preference in graceful maner, is left to be understood automatically since there are many psalms that directly instruct it.

And there are angels in Heaven with instruments, as described in Revelations. Not only does psalms repeatedly tell us that God is pleased with instruments on Earth, but He is surrounded with instruments in Heaven too.

...continued below

 

[HenryM]

Some opponents on using instruments say that instruments are "devilish". Well, they can be. But when it comes to communicating, nothing can be more "devilish" than human tongue. It's not about the tool, but how it's used. Pure heart speaks with pure tongue and plays instrument with pure touch. And, instrumental music can't lie. It's always naked before the listener. What you hear is what it is. If what is played on an instrument sounds divine, it is divine.

Some say that instruments are only mentioned in Old Testament (even though they are not, since use of psalms is instructed in New Testament, and with it, use of instruments is instructed too), and ask if we should also sacrifice animals, as sacrifices were instructed in Old Testament too. Somehow, playing an instrument from your heart, gracefully to God, is the same as slaughtering an animal over altar.

Anyway, there are a lot of arguments that show that instruments are allowed in worship. But it's tiring to even think about them. It tells us something that this is an issue in the first place.

By the way, basically all great composers are instrumentalists. If you want to write choral music for four voices, for example, you sit at keyboard instrument or take stringed instrument in your hand, and compose on it, so you can hear it - and shape it - immediately. Sergei Rachmaninov, one of the great Russian composers from the last century, who wrote Russian Orthodox Liturgy (for choir), was virtuoso pianist. If instruments are good to create God worshipping music, they are probably good to perform it too. Bach believed that, thankfully. I have searched for information about famous Byzantine composers from earlier times, and couldn't find if they did or didn't use instruments for composing their choral works. But it's safe to say that if they didn't compose layered choral music with the help of an instrument, they probably didn't compose the best music they could. At the very least, you need some instrument to get the intonation right, unless you have perfect pitch (which is a rare physical talent, and God worship doesn't depend on a rare physical talent). So, just a quick glance finds instrument as seed for singing worship. As such, it's significant part of worship from the beginning.

Finally, a word about performing. In my view, if instruments are played for communal worship, players shouldn't be at the center stage, for everybody to see them. Worship is not about the players, so they should be, preferably, out of sight. On balcony or obscured in some other way. They are there to serve worship, gracefully, not to be worshipped themselves.

 

[bcbsr]

I was reading a debate about playing instruments in worship, and found it to be fascinating issue. What's fascinating is that there's an issue at all.

I'm going to present a case why I believe instruments are allowed in worship, as secondary to voice, per preference and executed gracefully. I'm interested to hear what others think.

First, Jesus gives us two commandments upon which all law hangs - to love our God and to love one another (Matthew 22:37-40). At the same time, we are not under the law but under grace (Romans 6:14). And really, can love be established by law? It's absurd to even think that. Love is established by God's love towards us and by us loving Him and each other, through the help of His Spirit. So we really are not under the law but grace.

Right here, at the beginning, we see that "musical instrument in worship" can't be a law issue. It has to be preference executed respectfully and humbly, while being secondary to voice since everybody can sing.

Also, we are not given laws for worship ritual. We are given worship principle - to worship in spirit and in truth (John 4:23). And really, since we are worshipping God who is in Heaven and not of this world, we are to worship with nonmaterialistic part of our being - our soul - the only part of us that's connected to God through His Spirit. That's why there are no hard rules for "material" side of worship. Further, when we remember that we are not under the law but grace, it gets even clearer that materialistic part of our worship only follows the principle of doing it in spirit and in truth under grace.

Does playing an instrument in glory to God, respectfully and humbly, breaks the principle of worshipping in spirit and truth? I don't see it.

So, even before we get to technical parts of the issue, the issue is solved - instruments are allowed. At least that seems to me. But let's get somewhat technical.

...continued below

You mean to tell me that there are actually sects the forbid the playing of musical instruments? Seems sects really go out of their way, fabricating regulations like the Pharisees, to make their sect distinct from other sects and to justify unnecessarily creating divisions among Christians.

 

[SeventyOne]

Main argument from those opposed to instruments in worship comes from the principle of “silence of the scriptures” - anything not authorized is not permitted. They say that since using instruments in worship is not instructed, it is not allowed.

Interesting logic. Wearing clothing also isn't instructed during worship. Do they do it naked? Then again, being naked during worship isn't instructed either. That's quite a dilemma for them I'd imagine.

 

[HenryM]

You mean to tell me that there are actually sects the forbid the playing of musical instruments?

Not sects. In basically whole Orthodox Church, as I am aware, only voice is allowed in service. No instrument in any capacity.

 

[John Hyperspace]

I was reading a debate about playing instruments in worship, and found it to be fascinating issue. What's fascinating is that there's an issue at all.

I'm going to present a case why I believe instruments are allowed in worship, as secondary to voice, per preference and executed gracefully. I'm interested to hear what others think.

First, Jesus gives us two commandments upon which all law hangs - to love our God and to love one another (Matthew 22:37-40). At the same time, we are not under the law but under grace (Romans 6:14). And really, can love be established by law? It's absurd to even think that. Love is established by God's love towards us and by us loving Him and each other, through the help of His Spirit. So we really are not under the law but grace.

Right here, at the beginning, we see that "musical instrument in worship" can't be a law issue. It has to be preference executed respectfully and humbly, while being secondary to voice since everybody can sing.

Also, we are not given laws for worship ritual. We are given worship principle - to worship in spirit and in truth (John 4:23). And really, since we are worshipping God who is in Heaven and not of this world, we are to worship with nonmaterialistic part of our being - our soul - the only part of us that's connected to God through His Spirit. That's why there are no hard rules for "material" side of worship. Further, when we remember that we are not under the law but grace, it gets even clearer that materialistic part of our worship only follows the principle of doing it in spirit and in truth under grace.

Does playing an instrument in glory to God, respectfully and humbly, breaks the principle of worshipping in spirit and truth? I don't see it.

So, even before we get to technical parts of the issue, the issue is solved - instruments are allowed. At least that seems to me. But let's get somewhat technical.

...continued below

First I'd want to agree with what you're saying here; about being under grace and not under laws. I look at this the same way as: James 2:8. In truth, I believe the only things that are "real" are these three: fath, hope and love (1 Corinthians 13:13). Being set at liberty in grace (Galatians 5:18, 2 Corinthians 3:17, Romans 5:2, Galatians 5:1) all things are lawful, but not all things edifying (1 Corinthians 10:23, 1 Corinthians 8:9) and these things will all come to conscience as the "excuser/accuser" (1 Corinthians 10:29, Romans 2:15, 1 John 3:20-21).

BUT, to the "lawyers" who say "keep the rules, by the rules you are justified/sanctified/saved/etc" I would say that the argument in the letter of the rules for "no musical instruments in worship" is quite valid. I'll address you "lawyering" in a second post (not saying "lawyering" in a negative connotation, unless one is teaching "keep the rules or you are not sanctified/justified/saved/etc"). The thing is that anyone can offer support of their convictions, and it is not really possible to determine who is "certainly right" and "certainly wrong"; so there is good support of "no instruments" (I'd argue even stronger that "instruments are okay") and if one dismisses the support, then one doesn't seem concerned about the "keeping the rules" that they are insisting be done, else they would cease all possible "sinful" practices to avoid what is called "presumptuous sin". I have said in the past and will maintain that all forms of "you must keep the rules" are slippery-slopes that demand that any serious "lawyer" go off and live in a cave to ensure they are "keeping the rules", in order to ensure they are committing no sin through disobedience to a possible rule.

A person who says "keep the rules" and is not living in a cave, is not serious about "keeping the rules" else his zeal for the rule-keeping would cause him to avoid all possible violations of the rules. I call this "John's Works Wager" (a variant of Pascal's Wager) and it says "better safe then sorry; if you are truly zealous about keeping the rules, go live in a cave; otherwise you are neither serious nor zealous, and are simply promoting the appearance of self-righteousness by keeping rules you find easy to keep". As the saying goes, divorce is always a sin until you want one.

 

[seeking.IAM]

I have no problem with music in worship, but please spare me from "liturgical dancers."

 

[Dave-W]

I am not aware of the practices of the Orthodox. i have had no contact with them directly.

That said, The Church of Christ (Stone - Campbell Restoration movement) forbids the use of instruments. My kid brother grew up in that and I attended a CoC for a while in high school. (got kicked out)

They use a hermenutic called "CENI." That stands for Command, Example, Necessary Inference. And it applies ONLY to the New Testament.

On another forum a few years back I was discussing this very issue with a CoC leader. When I pointed out to him that in Psalm 150 instrumental worship is COMMANDED, he made a most interesting point - that before the cross instrumental music was loved and REQUIRED by God, and when Jesus died, God now HATED it and would send you to hell over it.

I am not sure how he squared that with "I am God and I change Not." Malachi 3:6

 

[Dave-W]

I have no problem with music in worship, but please spare me from "liturgical dancers."

Why?

 

[John Hyperspace]

Interesting logic. Wearing clothing also isn't instructed during worship. Do they do it naked? Then again, being naked during worship isn't instructed either. That's quite a dilemma for them I'd imagine.

Not at all. The rules command wearing clothes to avoid lust and such. No dilemma at all.

 

[John Hyperspace]

Main argument from those opposed to instruments in worship comes from the principle of “silence of the scriptures” - anything not authorized is not permitted. They say that since using instruments in worship is not instructed, it is not allowed.

Yes, "faith cometh by hearing" and since God never said "play musical instruments" then that cannot be of "faith" since it was never "heard" and is thus "sin" since "whatsoever is not of faith is sin" (bear in mind I am not condemning the musical instruments and such, but "lawyering" the letter to show support for the idea "no musical instruments")

New Testament acknowledges psalms as core collection of hymns to the God.

Singing psalms is commanded, playing instruments while singing psalms is not.

And word "psalm" literally meant "to pluck the strings of a musical instrument", while it was later applied to singing praises to God with stringed instrument (see Greek Lexicons - Robinson, Thayer or Classic Greek Dictionary). No wonder, 24 psalms directly instruct the use of instruments in worship, either in the psalm heading or in the hymn itself. When something is repeated 24 times it has weight and probably has to be banned explicitly in order to be annulled.

That is old covenant, and just because David included instruments in the old covenant doesn't guarentee the approval of God. Jacob practiced sympathetic magic, and Joseph practiced divination. Just because men do something doesn't give God's approval. But the scripture says "This is My beloved Son, hear Him" and Jesus never taught to play musical instruments in worship.

Paul says to "sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs" (Ephesians 5:19).

Sing psalms.

He doesn't say "sing psalms, but whenever you come across one of many that directly instruct you to sing with an instrument, skip it completely, or don't play any instrument with it".

He doesn't have to tell you what "not" to do when you go by what he tells you "to" do. When you send someone to the store, do you tell them what not to get? Or simply tell them what to get?

By the way, some interpret the wording of second part of Ephesians 5:19 - sing and make music from your heart to the Lord - as if "sing and make music" is one action. It could be, but it could also be two actions: 1) sing with your heart and 2) make music with your heart. Especially when original term for "make music" is “psallo”, which means "to twitch or twang”, that is, to play on a stringed instrument. Those who interpret the verse as if it can only mean to "sing by way of plucking strings of a heart" are really hanging by a thread here, in my opinion.

It could go either way, so we ought not do it unless specifically commanded.

Talking about singing doesn't mean playing an instrument is forbidden

It does when your rules are based on what is said, and not on what is not said

And there are angels in Heaven with instruments, as described in Revelations. Not only does psalms repeatedly tell us that God is pleased with instruments on Earth, but He is surrounded with instruments in Heaven too.

Symbolism. What symbolic angels are doing is not a commandment from God to us.

 

[HenryM]

On another forum a few years back I was discussing this very issue with a CoC leader. When I pointed out to him that in Psalm 150 instrumental worship is COMMANDED, he made a most interesting point - that before the cross instrumental music was loved and REQUIRED by God, and when Jesus died, God now HATED it and would send you to hell over it.

I am not sure how he squared that with "I am God and I change Not." Malachi 3:6

Yes. Furthermore, more than 20 psalms instruct use of instruments. If it's hated by God, why is it not in New Testament as a command or expression?

 

[HenryM]

Singing psalms is commanded, playing instruments while singing psalms is not.

In hymns themselves are joyful descriptions of playing instruments to the glory of God. Do you mean to say that it is allowed to sing about playing instruments to the glory of God, while at the same time it is forbidden to actually play instruments to the glory of God?

 

[John Hyperspace]

Some opponents on using instruments say that instruments are "devilish". Well, they can be. But when it comes to communicating, nothing can be more "devilish" than human tongue. It's not about the tool, but how it's used. Pure heart speaks with pure tongue and plays instrument with pure touch. And, instrumental music can't lie. It's always naked before the listener. What you hear is what it is. If what is played on an instrument sounds divine, it is divine.

Just because you like it doesn't mean God does! Whatsoever is not of faith is sin, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God, Jesus is the Word of God, show me in the NT where anyone commands "play musical instruments in worship": if you can't it is not of faith and is sin. All churches which use musical instruments in worship practice religion in vain, and are condemned.*

*strongly note, I am only stating the "lawyering" here, I do not believe this, and believe in grace not law. However, I once did believe in "keep the rules!" and was as strict as they come. I would debate this, (and others) all day long. By the "letter", "no musical instruments" has very strong biblical support (stronger than "it's okay even though not commanded") and any "lawyer" shouldn't be doing it.

But for those under grace, there is no law against any such things, not being under law.

 

[Dave-W]

Yes. Furthermore, more than 20 psalms instruct use of instruments. If it's hated by God, why is it not in New Testament as a command or expression?

It is the Zwingli theory of biblical silence.

If you are unaware of the Reformer Ulrich Zwingli, you should read up on him. He is fascinating. He and Luther argued over this principle of biblical silence with Martin Luther taking the position that what the bible was silent on could be allowed.

Zwingli wrote up a lengthy list of reasons why instruments should not be allowed in church services, and it is good reading for every church musician and vocalist. He had been a Catholic priest and a concert grade violinist so he knew first had of musician's pride and arrogance.

What surprised me is that every member of the CoC that I have talked to and eschews instruments had never heard of Zwingli.

 

[Dave-W]

show me in the NT where anyone commands "play musical instruments in worship": if you can't it is not of faith and is sin.

An unfortunate product of a severe misunderstanding of the succession of covenants. In the ancient world, when a covenant was replaced, anything from the old not covered specifically in the newer document gets carried over intact.

So since there is no specific NT command to stop using instruments, the command from the OT to use them continues on.

 

[John Hyperspace]

In hymns themselves are joyful descriptions of playing instruments to the glory of God. Do you mean to say that it is allowed to sing about playing instruments to the glory of God, while at the same time it is forbidden to actually play instruments to the glory of God?

Okay please note that I'm only coming at this from the point of view of a "lawyer" who is all about "keep the rules!", who is under law, and, not under grace. I am merely taking the opposing side of the issue for discussion sake.

Given that; yes, this is the idea. We are commanded to sing; not to play instruments. If you play an instruments you are doing something not "of faith" since "faith comes by hearing" and since no one in the NT says "play musical instruments" then to do so is a violation of "faith" and whatsoever is not of "faith" is "sin". In the same sense we are allowed to read and talk about the old testament, but not worship according to what was done there.

 

[John Hyperspace]

o since there is no specific NT command to stop using instruments, the command from the OT to use them continues on.

There doesn't have to be. Since the doctrine is based on "hearing" only those things that are "heard" are commands. No one needs to tell you to "stop" doing; only what to "do":

when you send someone to the store, you do not tell them what not to get, but what to get. God needs not say "stop doing such and such and such" when all He has to do is say "Do these things"

 

[Dave-W]

There doesn't have to be. Since the doctrine is based on "hearing" only those things that are "heard" are commands. No one needs to tell you to "stop" doing; only what to "do":

when you send someone to the store, you do not tell them what not to get, but what to get. God needs not say "stop doing such and such and such" when all He has to do is say "Do these things"

That is NOT how ancient covenants worked.