Are Christians sinners?

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HisEagle

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In the Ethics and Morality forum, I'm involved in a discussion in which there is disagreement about what Paul was actually saying in 1 Timothy 1:15. It seems lately I have much more respect for the Catholic position on various matters, because there aren't the multitude of different interpretations like you find in Protestantism. So on that note, I am prepared to accept the Catholic position on this question:

Are Christians still considered sinners?

Thank you.
 

FullyMT

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Short Anser: Yes

Long answer:
I don't remember where it says it, but somewhere in proverbs it says that "the rightous man sins seven times a day"
Yes. We sin. We fall short. We go against God's will. A Christian is one who will admit their shortcomings and ask God for forgiveness for them.
 
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FullyMT

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The fact that we believe does not mean that we do not sin. When was the last time that person either did something wrong, or didn't do something that they should have (in the Confiteor we confess that we have sinned in what we have done and in what we have failed to do). And thank you for the birthday wishes :)
 
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Virgil the Roman

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yes, we all sin, no matter how i try i still sin.


:prayer:I pray still that the Lord works within my soul to obey his will, and love as he loves, and to live in such a way as to make my life an expression of his love, kindness, and compassion, he has for us, his children, his beloved people. Amen.:prayer::crossrc:
 
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Febe

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FullyMT said:
Short Anser: Yes

Long answer:
I don't remember where it says it, but somewhere in proverbs it says that "the rightous man sins seven times a day"
Yes. We sin. We fall short. We go against God's will. A Christian is one who will admit their shortcomings and ask God for forgiveness for them.

...................................................................................:thumbsup: Couldn´t have put it better!

groundhog said:
...the person disagreeing with me claims that nowhere in the NT does it refer to believers as sinners. Does that matter?

What about Rom. 3:23? In Swedish translation, it says that we are all sinners and don´t have the glory from God...
 
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seebs

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The argument the guy is making is that, for instance, Rom 3:23 refers in the past tense to us having sinned, but says that we are no longer sinners.

The killer seems to be 1 Timothy 1:15, which he addressed initially by asserting that it was in the past tense, then secondly by insisting that, since there's more material after that, it's obviously really the past tense even though it wasn't written that way.

You get the idea.

Ah, well. It's stuff like this that makes me sometimes wish the Bible were a little more direct and explicit. But then I realized: God could come down in the flesh and tell us to be nice, and within five hundred years we'd be killing people who argued with us about it.
 
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Kepha

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Paul addmitted he was a sinner and said how what he knows is right he constantly does wrong. He was a Christian. Your friend is in denial that he sins it seems. I've never heard that before actually. Where a supposed Christian claims they can no longer sin. To sin is to knowingling do something against God. He has never done this?

Weird. :scratch:
 
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FullyMT

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eirene said:
just to gain some clarification as i listen in....

is being a "sinner" the same as "I sin/I have sin in my life"?
just wondering if that's why the argument is being made...
yes

please remember that a sin is not necessarily DOING something, but also in "what [we] have failed to do".
 
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plum

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FullyMT said:
yes

please remember that a sin is not necessarily DOING something, but also in "what [we] have failed to do".
i also think it is the same... but it seems like the person who originally made the argument may not believe they are the same.

thanks !
 
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HisEagle

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eirene said:
just to gain some clarification as i listen in....

is being a "sinner" the same as "I sin/I have sin in my life"?
just wondering if that's why the argument is being made...

Yes, eirene, that seems to be why the argument is being made.

The member with whom I disagreed is a Baptist (according to his faith icon), and he states that Christians are no longer considered "sinners", claiming there is no place in the New Testament in which the term is used to refer to believers. I told him that was not true because Paul referred to himself as "chief/foremost" among sinners. He responded by saying Paul was referring to past tense. I countered that claim, pointing out 1 Timothy 1:15 where Paul's comment is in the present tense.

So my question is: What do Catholics say about this? Since there seems to be so many different interpretations and opinions within Protestantism, I am more inclined to belief what the RCC says about the matter. Is there any specific teaching which refers to it? Anything in the Catechism?

I, too, for over 21 years have believed that Christians are still sinners. Is this all semantics? Is there a difference between being a "sinner" before believing in Jesus, and a Christian who is merely capable of sinning?
 
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NiteClerk

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seebs said:
....Ah, well. It's stuff like this that makes me sometimes wish the Bible were a little more direct and explicit. But then I realized: God could come down in the flesh and tell us to be nice, and within five hundred years we'd be killing people who argued with us about it.
As long as you follow my definition of "Nice." Otherwise you are an ignorant heathen and must be destroyed.

Actually this reminds me of a few months ago when the reading was about not pouring new wine into old wineskins. After Mass I told my kids that the Bible had to be written in the language of the time. If it was written today it would say to not record your music onto 8 track tapes, but rather use iPods.

Bob
 
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