Are all the passages claiming relationship to Messiah, true?

[pinacled]

Its called "fear". People have been so brainwashed concerning certain theological issues that they are too afraid of losing their salvation or of being ostracized by their faith community.


No. I am a second born male. My brother is an atheist. What does it matter? I am the first born again male in my family.

What matters is important concerning order. Thank you for being honest.

Consider the word contention in the letter Paul was writting.
The English language can be difficult to navigate.
So maybe look to the word countenance in the Law (torah).

I will leave this from psalms.
King of kings.
Lord of lords
74;12
For G-d is my King from time immemorial, Who works salvations in the midst of the earth.

3 day's and nights.

 

[gadar perets]

I will leave this from psalms.
King of kings.
Lord of lords
74;12
For G-d is my King from time immemorial, Who works salvations in the midst of the earth.

3 day's and nights.

I assume you quoted this because you believe the "G-d" in verse 12 is Yeshua. Verse 18 identifies the God of verse 12 as YHWH. As you know, YHWH is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Exodus 3:15). The NT reveals to us that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob glorified His Son Yeshua (Acts 3:13). Yeshua did not glorify his Son Yeshua.

 

[visionary]

John 10:28 says....
Yeshua declared "I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand."

Who but God can give anyone eternal life?

 

[gadar perets]

John 10:28 says....
Yeshua declared "I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand."

Who but God can give anyone eternal life?

Anyone who the Father gives that power and authority to can give eternal life.

John 5:26-27 For as the Father hath life in Himself; so hath He given to the Son to have life in himself;
And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

John 17:1-2 These words spoke Yeshua, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
​

Yeshua did not always have the power to give eternal life because he did not have eternal life in himself. Once he was given eternal life in himself, he was able to give eternal life to others.

 

[pinacled]

Anyone who the Father gives that power and authority to can give eternal life.

John 5:26-27 For as the Father hath life in Himself; so hath He given to the Son to have life in himself;
And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

John 17:1-2 These words spoke Yeshua, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
​

Yeshua did not always have the power to give eternal life because he did not have eternal life in himself. Once he was given eternal life in himself, he was able to give eternal life to others.

Romans 10;9
The Word is very near to you.
Confess Yeshua is Lord. Where there is blood there is a testator.
Remember his house is a house of prayer.
So ask and you shall receive.

Baptism in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit.

So if you want say it out loud and cry unto him from the roof top.

 

[AbbaLove]

Are all the [Tanakh] passages claiming relationship to Messiah, true?
​

Just reminder everyone, I did not start this thread, and I would never name a thread of mine what is the title of this one.

The intent of this thread about "passages claiming relationship" would seem to revolve around whether or not a passage in question is referring to Yeshua as Israel's Messiah. All born again Messianic Jews would agree that Isaiah 53 is definitely a passage (claiming relationship) about Yeshua as Israel's Messiah as well as many other references (claiming relationship) found in the Tanakh.

Isaiah 53 is not forbidden by anyone. It is misunderstood and poorly interpreted by most. This passage should be called "the misunderstood chapter" (הפרק הלא מובן).

However, as formidable a debater as is gadar perets apparently he had no more success in convincing yonah_mishael than did pshun2404 two years ago (Peanut Gallery-Formal Debate-Isaiah 53 is Messianic and Yeshua (Jesus) alone...") that we all followed hoping yonah_mishael might come around to accept Yeshua as his Lord and Saviour.

Likewise, what is so evident in several NT passages (the manifest supernatural presence of Yeshua as G-d) to many non-Jewish and Jewish Messianic men and women is not so evident to other Messianics. Both can support their beliefs with NT passages.

John 10:28 says....
Yeshua declared "I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand."

Who but God can give anyone eternal life?

John 10:37-38
37 If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me;
38 but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and *I am in the Father.”

What's most important is the one central theme that all born again Messianics find agreement with Messiah Yeshua's claim to having a very close (supernatural) relationship with G-d. So *close that the ruling religious leaders accused Yeshua of claiming to be G-d.

 

[visionary]

Who is God Almighty?

John 1:1-2 and 14, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.
...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”

John 8:24, “I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM He, ye shall die in your sins.”

John 8:58, “Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”

Genesis 17:1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am God Almighty; walk before me, and be blameless,

God will NOT share His glory nor praise with another...

Isaiah 42:8 says, “I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.”

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Yeshua readily accepted praise because He is God.

John 13:13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.

Mark 2:7, “Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?”

John 10:33 says, “The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, Makest Thyself God.”

Revelation 1:7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him even those who pierced Him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of Him. Even so. Amen. “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

 

[visionary]

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him [Yeshua], My Lord and my God.

 

[visionary]

Anyone who the Father gives that power and authority to can give eternal life.

John 5:26-27 For as the Father hath life in Himself; so hath He given to the Son to have life in himself;
And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

John 17:1-2 These words spoke Yeshua, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
​

Yeshua did not always have the power to give eternal life because he did not have eternal life in himself. Once he was given eternal life in himself, he was able to give eternal life to others.

..lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2 Corinthians 4:4

...Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Philippians 2:5,6

... For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Colossians 2:9

...our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in His times He shall shew, who is the blessed and the ONLY Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 1 Timothy 6:14,15

And He hath on His vesture and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. Revelation 19:16

... Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person... Hebrews 1:1-3

But unto the Son He saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever... Hebrews 1:8

 

[visionary]

To see Yeshua's face is to see the glory of God - II Corinthians 4:6
Yeshua "being in the form of God" makes Him God - Philippians 2:6
Yeshua being the brightness of the Father's glory - Hebrews 1:3
Yeshua is the exact image of the Father's Person - Hebrews 1:3

That is why to "see Yeshua" is to "see the Father" - John 14:9, John 12:45
That is why Jesus said He and His Father are one - John 10:30

Yeshua is IN the bosom of the Father - John 1:18.
Not "on" the bosom"..not "near" the bosom...IN the bosom...He is in the center of the
Father. They are "one"

He is called EVERLASTING Father - Isaiah 9:6
Yeshua deserves the SAME honour as the Father - John 5:23

 

[gadar perets]

Who is God Almighty?

John 1:1-2 and 14, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.
...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”

John 8:24, “I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM He, ye shall die in your sins.”

John 8:58, “Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.”

Genesis 17:1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am God Almighty; walk before me, and be blameless,

God will NOT share His glory nor praise with another...

Isaiah 42:8 says, “I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.”

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Yeshua readily accepted praise because He is God.

John 13:13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.

Mark 2:7, “Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?”

John 10:33 says, “The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, Makest Thyself God.”

Revelation 1:7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him even those who pierced Him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of Him. Even so. Amen. “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

It is interesting that out of all those verses you quoted, only one includes the word "Almighty" and that text (Rev 1:8) refers to the Father (see vss. 4-5 to understand the Father, "which is, and which was, and which is to come", is the subject of verse 4 and the Son is the subject of verse 5). That means you are reading "Almighty" into the other texts.

Here is a verse that makes it clear that Yeshua, the Lamb, is not YHWH God Almighty:

Revelation 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.​

Two beings 1) the Father, YHWH God Almighty 2) the Son, the Lamb.

 

[gadar perets]

If anyone is interested, I will take the time to address all the verses visionary posted in post#s 108-110.

 

[visionary]

Yeshua is the Redeemer - Gal 4:5, Gal 3:13, Rev 5:9, Titus 2:14.
God is the Redeemer - Jer 31:11, Is 41:14, Is 44:22, Is 44:6, Is 44:24

 

[AbbaLove]

What is so evident (clear as crystal) to many Messianics based on scripture upon scripture upon scripture is still refuted by other Messianics based in part on how certain elements of Messianic Judaism attempts to differentiate between Messiah Yeshua as LORD from Elohim as GOD.

Whether plural of majesty, plural of intensity or implying the manifest duality of GOD the plural nouns of Adonai and Elohim are open to various English interpretation after thousands of years. There are no finite English word(s) that can adequately define the *plural manifest personality of GOD.

Genesis 1:26-27
26 And God said, Let *us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

John 10:30 CJB
I and the Father are one.
John 10:37-38
37 If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me;
38 but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”
John 14:6 CJB
Yeshua said, “I AM the Way — and the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father except through me.
John 14:8-9 CJB
8 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it will be enough for us.”
9 Yeshua replied to him, “Have I been with you so long without your knowing me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

As Visionary has so adequately posted with scripture upon scripture upon scripture it should be crystal clear that Messiah Yeshua embodies the very manifest presence of Father GOD. Isn't that the reason why the ruling religious leaders sought to stone Yeshua?

John 10:33
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

 

[visionary]

Yeshua has the attributes of God because He is God:
He knows everything (Matthew 16:21; Luke 11:17; John 4:29),
He is everywhere (Matthew 18:20; 28:20; Acts 18:10),
He has all power (Matthew 8:26–27; 28:18; John 11:38–44; Luke 7:14–15; Revelation 1:8),
He depends on nothing outside of himself for life (John 1:4; 14:6; 8:58),
He rules over everything (Matthew 28:18; Revelation 1:5; 19:16,
He never began to exist and never will cease to exist (John 1:1; 8:58),
He is our Creator (Colossians 1:16).

 

[pat34lee]

Anyone who the Father gives that power and authority to can give eternal life.

Yeshua did not always have the power to give eternal life because he did not have eternal life in himself. Once he was given eternal life in himself, he was able to give eternal life to others.

Heresy. Wrong is just too mild for this.
Yahweh is spirit, Yeshua is flesh. The two are one.
No one else has, can or will be able to give eternal life.
http://www.therefinersfire.org/yeshua_is_god.htm

 

[gadar perets]

Heresy. Wrong is just too mild for this.
Yahweh is spirit, Yeshua is flesh. The two are one.
No one else has, can or will be able to give eternal life.
http://www.therefinersfire.org/yeshua_is_god.htm

Instead of just calling it "heresy", why don't you just explain the proper interpretation of the verses I gave in post #104?

Also, the link you provided was written by someone who has fallen prey to Andrew Roth's false teaching about the fictitious Aramaic word MarYah" which is really "marya" and simply means "lord" or "master". http://everlastinggoodnewsofyahweh.info/Studies/MarYah.html

 

[gadar perets]

Yeshua is the Redeemer - Gal 4:5, Gal 3:13, Rev 5:9, Titus 2:14.
God is the Redeemer - Jer 31:11, Is 41:14, Is 44:22, Is 44:6, Is 44:24

Here is a Messianic prophecy with my addition of who is speaking and some commentary.

Isa 49:1 Listen, O isles, unto me [Yeshua]; and hearken, ye people, from far; YHWH [Yeshua's Father] hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.
Isa 49:2 And he [Father YHWH] hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;
Isa 49:3 And said unto me [Yeshua], Thou art my servant, O Israel [put for Messiah who s the King and primary representative of the whole Israel of God], in whom I will be glorified.
Isa 49:4 Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with YHWH [the Father], and my work with my God [YHWH is Yeshua's God].
Isa 49:5 And now, saith YHWH [the Father] that formed me [Yeshua] from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob [Israel] again to him [to the Father], Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I [Yeshua] be glorious in the eyes of YHWH [the Father], and my God [Yeshua's God, YHWH] shall be my strength.
Isa 49:6 And he [Father YHWH] said, It is a light thing that thou [Yeshua] shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob [Israel], and to restore the preserved of Israel: I [Father YHWH] will also give thee [Yeshua] for a light to the Gentiles, that thou [Yeshua] mayest be my salvation [the Father's instrument to save the world] unto the end of the earth.
Isa 49:7 Thus saith YHWH [the Father], the Redeemer of Israel [Father YHWH is Israel's Redeemer. He accomplishes the redemption through His servant Yeshua. That makes Yeshua our redeemer as well. Similarly, Father YHWH sent men to save Israel at various times in their history and He called them "saviors" even though it was Father YHWH that initiated the saving making Him the Ultimate Savior. See 2 Kings 13:5; Nehemiah 9:27; Isaiah 19:20], and his [Israel's] Holy One, to him whom man despiseth [Yeshua], to him whom the nation abhorreth [Yeshua], to a servant of rulers [Yeshua], Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of YHWH that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he [Father YHWH] shall choose thee [Yeshua].

 

[gadar perets]

As Visionary has so adequately posted with scripture upon scripture upon scripture it should be crystal clear that Messiah Yeshua embodies the very manifest presence of Father GOD.

I agree that Yeshua embodies the presence of Father GOD. That does NOT mean he WAS the Father, but that the Father lived in him.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Messiah, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.​

NOT

To wit, that God was Messiah, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.​

 

[AbbaLove]

Anyone who the Father gives that power and authority to can give eternal life.
Yeshua did not always have the power to give eternal life because he did not have eternal life in himself. Once he was given eternal life in himself, he was able to give eternal life to others.

Heresy. Wrong is just too mild for this.
Yahweh is spirit, Yeshua is flesh. The two are one.
No one else has, can or will be able to give eternal life.
http://www.therefinersfire.org/yeshua_is_god.htm

You hit the nail squarely on the head
​

Was equally appalled and at a loss of words to even respond. Glad that you did not mince words. Just couldn't believe that an MJ could make such a statement.

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, “Let Us make humankind in Our image, in the likeness of Ourselves; and let them rule over the fish in the sea, the birds in the air, the animals, and over all the earth, and over every crawling creature that crawls on the earth."
John 3:11
“I assure you: We speak what We know and We testify to what We have seen, but you[a] do not accept Our testimony."

Footnotes:
[a] John 3:11 In Gk, the word you is plural here and throughout v. 12.
John 3:11 The pronouns We and Our refer to Yeshua and His authority to speak for the Father.​

Mashiach Yeshua represents the very image and likeness of GOD
​

Revelation 22:13 (KJV)
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Hisgalus 22:13 (OJB)
13 “I am the Aleph and the Tav, HaRishon (The First) and HaAcharon (The Last), HaReshit (The Beginning) and HaTachlit (The Ultimate).