"Ardent" Catholic Nancy Pelosi on abortion

[Michie]

A spokesman for the Speaker of the House indicates that Nancy Pelosi does not plan to back away from her defense of abortion, despite sharp criticism from US bishops.

While Catholic teaching is clear that life begins at conception, many Catholics do not ascribe to that view.​

In other words, Pelosi understands Church teaching, disagrees with it, and urges others to do the same. The AP coverage is admirably clear and accurate on that point:

But whether or not parishioners choose to accept it, the theology on the procedure is clear. From its earliest days, Christianity has considered abortion evil.​

While many American bishops have now voiced their disapproval for Pelosi's highly public stance, one has not yet spoken. San Francisco's Archbishop George Niederauer, in whose archdiocese Pelosi resides, will reportedly break his silence in a Friday newspaper column.

Source(s):
» Pelosi gets unwanted lesson in Catholic theology (AP)

 

[InTheCloud]

The Cuomo prochoice stance based on cynical real politics was more defensible that the Pelosi defense based on heresy. Excomunicate her.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Can you point me toward that doctrine?

No I will not search for the Doctrine. But the leaders of the Church have spoken:

rchbishop George Niederauer will address recent comments by Pelosi in a column in the Sept. 5 issue of Catholic San Francisco, archdiocesan spokesman Maurice Healy said.

In an official response, the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops issued a joint statement by the heads of the USCCB Pro - Life and Doctrine Committees calling Pelosi's comments "misleading" and based on mistaken theories of fetal development that modern embryology made obsolete 150 years ago.

Cardinal Edward Egan of the Archdiocese of New York said he was "shocked" at Pelosi's comments and found them not only misleading but also "utterly incredible in this day and age."

Washington, D.C., Archbishop Donald Wuerl said, "We respect the right of elected officials such as Speaker Pelosi to address matters of public policy that are before them, but the interpretation of Catholic faith has rightfully been entrusted to the Catholic bishops."

So it looks as if Nancy poked the Hornets nest this time. So maybe Geocan, you should call your Bishop or Cardinal and voice your interpretation of catholic teaching to them.

 

[katholikos]

Whether it' a sin or not is bedsides the point. This doesn't have to even be a religious issue. It's a criminal matter. It's murder and that's why it's a law that should not be allowed on the books.

Here here. Amen.

But, since we are Catholics, we know that Church says it is murder too. It is in the Catechism under the commandemt "Thou Shalt Not Kill".

Who do we see as infallible, the Magisterium, or the Supreme Court?

 

[katholikos]

Abortion
2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.71

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.72

My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.73

2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:

You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.74

God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves. Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.75

2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,"76 "by the very commission of the offense,"77 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.78 The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.

2273 The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation:

"The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority. These human rights depend neither on single individuals nor on parents; nor do they represent a concession made by society and the state; they belong to human nature and are inherent in the person by virtue of the creative act from which the person took his origin. Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being's right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death."79

"The moment a positive law deprives a category of human beings of the protection which civil legislation ought to accord them, the state is denying the equality of all before the law. When the state does not place its power at the service of the rights of each citizen, and in particular of the more vulnerable, the very foundations of a state based on law are undermined. . . . As a consequence of the respect and protection which must be ensured for the unborn child from the moment of conception, the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child's rights."80


71 Cf. CDF, Donum vitae I, 1.
72 Jer 1:5; cf. Job 10:8-12; Ps 22:10-11.
73 Ps 139:15.
74 Didache 2, 2: SCh 248, 148; cf. Ep. Barnabae 19, 5: PG 2, 777; Ad Diognetum 5, 6: PG 2, 1173; Tertullian, Apol. 9: PL 1, 319-320.
75 GS 51 # 3.
76 CIC, can. 1398.
77 CIC, can. 1314.
78 Cf. CIC, cann. 1323-1324.
79 CDF, Donum vitae III.
80 CDF, Donum vitae III.

 

[SolomonVII]

Abortion
2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.71

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.72

My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.73

2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:

You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.74

God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves. Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.75

2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,"76 "by the very commission of the offense,"77 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.78 The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.

2273 The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation:

"The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority. These human rights depend neither on single individuals nor on parents; nor do they represent a concession made by society and the state; they belong to human nature and are inherent in the person by virtue of the creative act from which the person took his origin. Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being's right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death."79

"The moment a positive law deprives a category of human beings of the protection which civil legislation ought to accord them, the state is denying the equality of all before the law. When the state does not place its power at the service of the rights of each citizen, and in particular of the more vulnerable, the very foundations of a state based on law are undermined. . . . As a consequence of the respect and protection which must be ensured for the unborn child from the moment of conception, the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child's rights."80


71 Cf. CDF, Donum vitae I, 1.
72 Jer 1:5; cf. Job 10:8-12; Ps 22:10-11.
73 Ps 139:15.
74 Didache 2, 2: SCh 248, 148; cf. Ep. Barnabae 19, 5: PG 2, 777; Ad Diognetum 5, 6: PG 2, 1173; Tertullian, Apol. 9: PL 1, 319-320.
75 GS 51 # 3.
76 CIC, can. 1398.
77 CIC, can. 1314.
78 Cf. CIC, cann. 1323-1324.
79 CDF, Donum vitae III.
80 CDF, Donum vitae III.

The teaching of the church is actually quite concise and clear on this. On the basic level, Catholic teaching is not really rocket science at all.

In that light, the bishops are quite correct in stating that Nancy Pelosi is being misleading in her answer. It would be hard to argue otherwise, unless the intent is to obscure this clear teaching in the first place.

And I agree with your post before this. First and foremost, we are talking about sin. this is to be the guide we follow before the law.

Politically speaking, what is good for us is good for society as well. It would be a worthwhile political goal to have laws reflect these values.

At this point , our laws cannot reflect this without criminally prosecuting huge swaths of the population. There is certainly legitimate debate to be had amongst Catholics in terms of how we might change this around.

But as far as Pelosi goes, it is just not rocket science. She was being deliberately misleading as to what the Church actually teaches. If she is going to speak as an 'ardent' Catholic, first and foremost, she must make clear that all human life is sacred, that for Catholics babies are to have rights of personhood from conception, that abortion is a sin.

For Catholics, the debate is only about how to get to there from here. It is quite different from the 'my body, my choice' mantra of the demographic is Pelosi's lifeblood.

 

[katholikos]

The catholic church does not teach that life begins at conception.....

That is wrong.

As for Pelosi, I guess she never came across this stuff in her studies:

The Didache
"The second commandment of the teaching: You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not seduce boys. You shall not commit fornication. You shall not steal. You shall not practice magic. You shall not use potions. You shall not procure [an] abortion, nor destroy a newborn child" (Didache 2:1–2 [A.D. 70]).


The Letter of Barnabas
"The way of light, then, is as follows. If anyone desires to travel to the appointed place, he must be zealous in his works. The knowledge, therefore, which is given to us for the purpose of walking in this way, is the following. . . . Thou shalt not slay the child by procuring abortion; nor, again, shalt thou destroy it after it is born" (Letter of Barnabas 19 [A.D. 74]).


The Apocalypse of Peter
"And near that place I saw another strait place . . . and there sat women. . . . And over against them many children who were born to them out of due time sat crying. And there came forth from them rays of fire and smote the women in the eyes. And these were the accursed who conceived and caused abortion" (The Apocalypse of Peter 25 [A.D. 137]).


Athenagoras
"What man of sound mind, therefore, will affirm, while such is our character, that we are murderers?
. . . [W]hen we say that those women who use drugs to bring on abortion commit murder, and will have to give an account to God for the abortion, on what principle should we commit murder? For it does not belong to the same person to regard the very fetus in the womb as a created being, and therefore an object of God’s care, and when it has passed into life, to kill it; and not to expose an infant, because those who expose them are chargeable with child-murder, and on the other hand, when it has been reared to destroy it" (A Plea for the Christians 35 [A.D. 177]).


Tertullian
"In our case, a murder being once for all forbidden, we may not destroy even the fetus in the womb, while as yet the human being derives blood from the other parts of the body for its sustenance. To hinder a birth is merely a speedier man-killing; nor does it matter whether you take away a life that is born, or destroy one that is coming to birth. That is a man which is going to be one; you have the fruit already in its seed" (Apology 9:8 [A.D. 197]).

"Among surgeons’ tools there is a certain instrument, which is formed with a nicely-adjusted flexible frame for opening the uterus first of all and keeping it open; it is further furnished with an annular blade, by means of which the limbs [of the child] within the womb are dissected with anxious but unfaltering care; its last appendage being a blunted or covered hook, wherewith the entire fetus is extracted by a violent delivery.

"There is also [another instrument in the shape of] a copper needle or spike, by which the actual death is managed in this furtive robbery of life: They give it, from its infanticide function, the name of embruosphaktes, [meaning] "the slayer of the infant," which of course was alive. . . .

"[The doctors who performed abortions] all knew well enough that a living being had been conceived, and [they] pitied this most luckless infant state, which had first to be put to death, to escape being tortured alive" (The Soul 25 [A.D. 210]).

"Now we allow that life begins with conception because we contend that the soul also begins from conception; life taking its commencement at the same moment and place that the soul does" (ibid., 27).

"The law of Moses, indeed, punishes with due penalties the man who shall cause abortion [Ex. 21:22–24]" (ibid., 37).


Minucius Felix
"There are some [pagan] women who, by drinking medical preparations, extinguish the source of the future man in their very bowels and thus commit a parricide before they bring forth. And these things assuredly come down from the teaching of your [false] gods. . . . To us [Christians] it is not lawful either to see or hear of homicide" (Octavius 30 [A.D. 226]).


Hippolytus
"Women who were reputed to be believers began to take drugs to render themselves sterile, and to bind themselves tightly so as to expel what was being conceived, since they would not, on account of relatives and excess wealth, want to have a child by a slave or by any insignificant person. See, then, into what great impiety that lawless one has proceeded, by teaching adultery and murder at the same time!" (Refutation of All Heresies [A.D. 228]).


Council of Ancyra
"Concerning women who commit fornication, and destroy that which they have conceived, or who are employed in making drugs for abortion, a former decree excluded them until the hour of death, and to this some have assented. Nevertheless, being desirous to use somewhat greater lenity, we have ordained that they fulfill ten years [of penance], according to the prescribed degrees" (canon 21 [A.D. 314]).


Basil the Great
"Let her that procures abortion undergo ten years’ penance, whether the embryo were perfectly formed, or not" (First Canonical Letter, canon 2 [A.D. 374]).

"He that kills another with a sword, or hurls an axe at his own wife and kills her, is guilty of willful murder; not he who throws a stone at a dog, and unintentionally kills a man, or who corrects one with a rod, or scourge, in order to reform him, or who kills a man in his own defense, when he only designed to hurt him. But the man, or woman, is a murderer that gives a philtrum, if the man that takes it dies upon it; so are they who take medicines to procure abortion; and so are they who kill on the highway, and rapparees" (ibid., canon 8).


John Chrysostom
"Wherefore I beseech you, flee fornication. . . . Why sow where the ground makes it its care to destroy the fruit?—where there are many efforts at abortion?—where there is murder before the birth? For even the harlot you do not let continue a mere harlot, but make her a murderess also. You see how drunkenness leads to prostitution, prostitution to adultery, adultery to murder; or rather to a something even worse than murder. For I have no name to give it, since it does not take off the thing born, but prevents its being born. Why then do thou abuse the gift of God, and fight with his laws, and follow after what is a curse as if a blessing, and make the chamber of procreation a chamber for murder, and arm the woman that was given for childbearing unto slaughter? For with a view to drawing more money by being agreeable and an object of longing to her lovers, even this she is not backward to do, so heaping upon thy head a great pile of fire. For even if the daring deed be hers, yet the causing of it is thine" (Homilies on Romans 24 [A.D. 391]).


Jerome
"I cannot bring myself to speak of the many virgins who daily fall and are lost to the bosom of the Church, their mother. . . . Some go so far as to take potions, that they may insure barrenness, and thus murder human beings almost before their conception. Some, when they find themselves with child through their sin, use drugs to procure abortion, and when, as often happens, they die with their offspring, they enter the lower world laden with the guilt not only of adultery against Christ but also of suicide and child murder" (Letters 22:13 [A.D. 396]).


The Apostolic Constitutions
"Thou shalt not use magic. Thou shalt not use witchcraft; for he says, ‘You shall not suffer a witch to live’ [Ex. 22:18]. Thou shall not slay thy child by causing abortion, nor kill that which is begotten. . . . f it be slain, [it] shall be avenged, as being unjustly destroyed" (Apostolic Constitutions 7:3 [A.D. 400]).

 

[Technocrat2010]

The catholic church does teach that life must be protected from the point of conception.

Then from your statement, it is safe to argue that a human life exists, at the very least, from the point of conception. Of course, if you have ideas of it existing before then, be my guest.

 

[SolomonVII]

The catholic church does teach that life must be protected from the point of conception.

Then from your statement, it is safe to argue that a human life exists, at the very least, from the point of conception. Of course, if you have ideas of it existing before then, be my guest.

Excellent point in demonstrating just how exceedingly small the point that geocajun has been making really is.

If human life did not exist from the moment of conception in the first place, how could we follow the teaching of protecting life from the moment of conception?

How can we be taught to protect something where it does not even exist?

What is infallibly taught by the Catholic church is the Immaculate Conception of Mary. How could be taught that Mary was immaculately conceived, if Mary was not personally present at her own conception?

For Catholics, this is not just doctrine, but infallibly taught as true, a Dogma among dogmas. Were the Catholic Church suddenly to begin teaching that life actually does not begin at conception then, the whole dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Mary would come falling down upon our ears.

it is theologically impossible for the Church to teach as she does, and for life to not begin at conception.