Apostle Paul - Did he break Torah?

[Chicken Little]

I understand your position but Messiah cannot contradict the Father. If the Father says "be in Jerusalem" how can Messiah contradict that?

does this work?
1Sa 15:22

And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

 

[ContraMundum]

I understand your position but Messiah cannot contradict the Father. If the Father says "be in Jerusalem" how can Messiah contradict that?

Messiah knows what the Father meant by that, and the traditional interpretation and application of the Torah does not contradict it. When one interprets to find an apparent contradiction that the ancient didn't see, then obviously one has a novel and incorrect interpretation. Messiah knew what He was saying.

 

[TalmidofYehoshua]

Messiah knows what the Father meant by that, and the traditional interpretation and application of the Torah does not contradict it. When one interprets to find an apparent contradiction that the ancient didn't see, then obviously one has a novel and incorrect interpretation. Messiah knew what He was saying.

Could you elaborate on "traditional interpretation and application of Torah doesn't contradict it"?

Thanks

 

[Hank77]

Jews were living all over the world WHILE the Second Temple stood.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_diaspora#Pre-Roman_diaspora

I don't see all over the whole world in this article, I do see Mesopotamia. The Jews that stayed in Babylon were doing their own separate thing, I think.
I know they were living all around the Mediterranean area and the Middle East.

To be Torah observant, say in relationship to the Passover, how could that sacrifice have been done anywhere except in Jerusalem at the temple, by a Levite priest? The place were the Lord chose. Deut. 12:26-27

 

[daq]

After Apostle Paul had his Damascus Road experience, he went away to learn and understand his new Master (Jesus) and did not go to Jerusalem for some time (Galatians 1:17-18).

My question is: Did Apostle Paul break Torah by not attending the Pilgrimage Festivals during the time he was away from Jerusalem?

I go up to Yerushalaim three times in a year, (and more) yet physically speaking I live nowhere near the physical land of Yisrael which is seen on physical maps of the Middle East. Check with Yeshayahu 40:1-3 and believe what HaNavi says when he says that Yerushalaim would have received double for all her sins, and that her warfare would be accomplished, and that the timing of such things would commence with the coming of the voice of Yochanan the Immerser, that is, the Cryer in the desert, (whom he himself claims to be). Paulos could therefore go up to Yerushalaim any time he so desired, even three times a day, that is, on his knees like HaNavi Daniel with his "windows open in his chamber toward Yerushalaim", (Daniel 6:10).

 

[Steve Petersen]

I don't see all over the whole world in this article, I do see Mesopotamia. The Jews that stayed in Babylon were doing their own separate thing, I think.
I know they were living all around the Mediterranean area and the Middle East.

To be Torah observant, say in relationship to the Passover, how could that sacrifice have been done anywhere except in Jerusalem at the temple, by a Levite priest? The place were the Lord chose. Deut. 12:26-27

It couldn't be done anywhere else but Jerusalem. This is the point of the maamad.The community would send representatives to Jerusalem to stand in their place.

 

[Poor Beggar]

After Apostle Paul had his Damascus Road experience, he went away to learn and understand his new Master (Jesus) and did not go to Jerusalem for some time (Galatians 1:17-18).

My question is: Did Apostle Paul break Torah by not attending the Pilgrimage Festivals during the time he was away from Jerusalem?

No one has ever perfectly observed the Torah except those of us who live in the One who perfectly observed Torah.

 

[Poor Beggar]

I understand your position but Messiah cannot contradict the Father. If the Father says "be in Jerusalem" how can Messiah contradict that?

Because He speaks on His Father's authority and the writings were written to serve man, not man to serve the the writings. Remember David and the showbread?

 

[Hank77]

It couldn't be done anywhere else but Jerusalem. This is the point of the maamad.The community would send representatives to Jerusalem to stand in their place.

How is that Torah observant or even Tanakh observant?

 

[visionary]

When the law was given, there was no temple, Jerusalem, or Israel. Observance has never been location locked down.

 

[Poor Beggar]

When the law was given, there was no temple, Jerusalem, or Israel. Observance has never been location locked down.

There was a tabernacle snc they obeyed the directive for it. Later they obeyed the directive for the temple. It's about obedience. And yes, there were Israelites.the very first statement in Exodus.

 

[visionary]

There was a tabernacle snc they obeyed the directive for it. Later they obeyed the directive for the temple. It's about obedience. And yes, there were Israelites.the very first statement in Exodus.

Israel and Israelites are as different as people and land.

 

[Poor Beggar]

When the law was given, there was no temple, Jerusalem, or Israel. Observance has never been location locked down.

Israel can be a nation of people, not a land mass. You weren't clear.

 

[ContraMundum]

Could you elaborate on "traditional interpretation and application of Torah doesn't contradict it"?

Thanks

There are whacky interpretations and applications of the Torah out there. There is a traditional understanding and application too. Messiah and Paul do not contradict that traditional understanding. However, if you get a whacky interpretation, Messiah and Paul will appear to be out of sync with the Torah.

 

[ContraMundum]

When the law was given, there was no temple, Jerusalem, or Israel. Observance has never been location locked down.

Um...yeah, it kind of was even then. Much of the Law was located around the Tabernacle.

 

[sahjimira]

OK..I consider myself a messianic gentile. I am a born again christian. I truly believe the traditional Sabbath as Saturday as well as the
HHoly days. As a gentile I am given to understand these things r optional however I myself feel led to observe MJ best I can..still learning. Therefore I do eat pork on occasion and some self serving on the Sabbath which I try to avoid. Did Paul do wrong? I believe he was with the Lord ..that can't b wrong. He had a lot to learn. As to me being a gentile, am I bound by the Judaic covenant..? Not circumsition and such but dietary laws etc. I agree with them but am not faithful. I know the bible says there is one law. Just a little confused about gentile involvement in all this. Was given to understand it was our choice not a command to attach ourselves to the MJ way of life although I do embrace it

 

[visionary]

OK..I consider myself a messianic gentile. I am a born again christian. I truly believe the traditional Sabbath as Saturday as well as the
HHoly days. As a gentile I am given to understand these things r optional however I myself feel led to observe MJ best I can..still learning. Therefore I do eat pork on occasion and some self serving on the Sabbath which I try to avoid. Did Paul do wrong? I believe he was with the Lord ..that can't b wrong. He had a lot to learn. As to me being a gentile, am I bound by the Judaic covenant..? Not circumsition and such but dietary laws etc. I agree with them but am not faithful. I know the bible says there is one law. Just a little confused about gentile involvement in all this. Was given to understand it was our choice not a command to attach ourselves to the MJ way of life although I do embrace it

Baby steps... Father loves His children... even when they are just learning to walk. We are all learning... we are all at different stages... some of us have been doing this a long time, and His Way, His Truth, His Life has been a blessing in our lives. Keep coming. Start with the Ten... apply what you can ...on the others as applicable to your sex, position, and life, know them and incorporate as needed.

 

[Lulav]

After Apostle Paul had his Damascus Road experience, he went away to learn and understand his new Master (Jesus) and did not go to Jerusalem for some time (Galatians 1:17-18).

My question is: Did Apostle Paul break Torah by not attending the Pilgrimage Festivals during the time he was away from Jerusalem?

My question is, where does it say that he went away to learn anything?

 

[Lulav]

Is it just me or is this a question being asked incorrectly in the first place?

Pesach, Shavuot and Sukkot can be celebrated abroad in different ways. For centuries Jews in exile have understood this, including Paul no doubt. God knew this when He allowed us to be in exile.

I think sometimes people with Bibles end up with very simplistic and idealistic ideas about how life was and is lived according to the Bible.

The question the OP'er should be asking his friend is whether or not an inability to perfectly attend to a Pilgrimage Festival is in fact "breaking" Torah. Secondly, does God hate people who are reasonably unable to fulfill mitzvahs? The elderly? The frail? Those living afar (a huge number then and now)? Do people go to "Hell" for not fulfilling these mitzvahs perfectly? If not, what is the punishment?

Etc etc..

I don't think his question is wrong. If anything we learn from the book of Acts and the Pauline letters is that Paul was a globetrotter. We also learn that he ploded through hardships of travel so those two things cannot be used as exemptions.

And as far as what the Mishnah says that would be Pharasaic tradition not Torah so what Paul says about not breaking Torah he in reality meant he did not break the traditions, he says so himself:

Phillipians 3:4 although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: 5
Circumcised the eighth day,
of the stock of Israel,
of the tribe of Benjamin,
an Hebrew of the Hebrews;
as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6Concerning zeal, persecuting the church;
touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

Acts 22
"I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city. (Jerusalem)
I studied under Gamaliel and was thoroughly trained in the law of our ancestors.
I was just as zealous for God as any of you are today.

Acts 26
"The Jewish people all know the way I have lived ever since I was a child,
from the beginning of my life in my own country, and also in Jerusalem.

They have known me for a long time and can testify, if they are willing,
that I conformed to the strictest sect of our religion, living as a Pharisee.

 

[Lulav]

Jews were living all over the world WHILE the Second Temple stood.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_diaspora#Pre-Roman_diaspora

If the temple was standing there was really no reason why they couldn't return, many choose to stay in the foreign countries.