Anyone read Nyes book Undeniable?

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Loudmouth

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jacknife

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I think Dr. Wile's review is a perfect example of the dishonesty needed to push creationism. For example, Dr. Wile completely misrepresents what "uniformitarianism" is. Dr. Nye correctly defines it.
you see the part in his blog where he claims that higher animals can be found with lower animals in the geological columns? blog.drwile.com/?p=12162
 
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Loudmouth

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you see the part in his blog where he claims that higher animals can be found with lower animals in the geological columns? blog.drwile.com/?p=12162

That is pretty bad.

"One of the ways evolutionists deal with the problem is to simply deny what the fossil clearly indicates. For example, in 2006 the journal Science published a paper entitled, “A Nearly Modern Amphibious Bird from the Early Cretaceous of Northwestern China.”"-Dr. Wile

I guess he didn't know that the Cretaceous is not the lower part of the animal fossil record. We don't find amphibious birds in the Cambrian or Carboniferous. How does Dr. Wile explain that?
 
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Willtor

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That is pretty bad.

"One of the ways evolutionists deal with the problem is to simply deny what the fossil clearly indicates. For example, in 2006 the journal Science published a paper entitled, “A Nearly Modern Amphibious Bird from the Early Cretaceous of Northwestern China.”"-Dr. Wile

I guess he didn't know that the Cretaceous is not the lower part of the animal fossil record. We don't find amphibious birds in the Cambrian or Carboniferous. How does Dr. Wile explain that?

Ouch.
 
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Blue Wren

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Here is some errors to keep in mind if you are reading it.

http://www.drwile.com/undeniable_review.pdf

:confused: Why are you certain, they are errors made by Nye, and not by Wile?


"p. 8: Nye repeats something he has said before: “proving that there is life on another world would surely change this one.” However, that’s not clear at all. Not long ago, I asked my reader what they thought of
this kind of statement (Bill Nye Makes a Prediction | Proslogion), and all who responded said it wouldn’t change much of anything."

He is using his readers' comments, as his proof of Nye's error?

"p. 10: Nye says that the central idea of creationism is “…that the first book of The Bible’s assertion that Earth is only six or ten thousand years old (the exact number depends on the interpretation) is supported by scientific evidence.” Actually the book of Genesis makes no such assertion anywhere. That is a result of interpretation. Other interpretations say that the earth is as old as Bill Nye thinks it is. In fact, some interpretations would allow the earth to be much, much older than what Nye believes."

Of course, it is true, Genesis does not make an assertion about a young earth, anywhere, yes. It is up to interpretation, yes. American creationism, it seems to be, mainly young earth creationism, no? On here, that's what I've read, from the creationists, the most. The other site, you posted, Creation.Com, they have all these videos, articles, ect, saying, that the earth, it is young. They have this video, where they show a Encyclopedia Britannica, from the 1700s, with an entry, about how the world is around 6000 years old. They were showing it, as "evidence" that the belief, that the earth is young, it is not new, to modern thinking. It seems, that Wile, he is being petty here. Most people, when they hear "creationism" they think, "young earth creationism." Wile, in the search I did, he is identified as a young earth creationist who writes creationist textbooks,homeschooling conferences, teaching young earth.

p. 18: Concerning creationists, Nye writes, “They throw aside their common sense and cling to the hope that there’s something that makes it okay to not think for themselves.” Of course, as I have already pointed out, listening to common sense leads to rejecting evolution. Also, Nye is the one who does not
want people to think for themselves. If he did, he would welcome the creation/evolution debate, because the creationists are thinking for themselves instead of blindly accepting what the High Priests of Science say. Nye wants to stop all debate on evolution. He doesn’t want any students to be taught
about anything other than evolution, because that would mean those students might actually think for themselves, and that seems to terrify Bill Nye.

I thought, Nye, just wanted creationism, to not be taught in science classes? A video, from Creation.Com, it said, that they did not want creationism, taught in science classes, because non-Christians, could not teach it properly. Wile, he is a creationist textbook writer. He has a reason, for wanting, creationism to be taught in science classes.
 
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Shemjaza

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Here is some errors to keep in mind if you are reading it.

http://www.drwile.com/undeniable_review.pdf

I haven't read the book so I can't really judge, but I have serious reservations about the reviewers trustworthiness.

I just read through a bunch of the education advice he promotes on his website and it was littered with distortions of the truth to outright lies.
 
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ChetSinger

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I haven't read it all, but there are already a few items where I agree with the reviewer.

p.8: Nye says, “When we go seeking life elsewhere, the whole idea of what to look for, and where to look for it, will be guided by our understanding of evolution.” That’s not even close to true. It will be guided by our understandings of biochemistry, metabolism, genetics, etc. An evolutionist and creationist would look in exactly the same places for extraterrestrial life.
I agree with the reviewer here. The first order of business will be learning what they are, not what they once were.

p. 8: Nye repeats something he has said before: “proving that there is life on another world would surely change this one.” However, that’s not clear at all. Not long ago, I asked my reader what they thought of this kind of statement (
http://blog.drwile.com/?p=12996), and all who responded said it wouldn’t change much of anything.
Again I agree with the reviewer. Mr. Nye seems unaware that many Christians have no theological problems with extraterrestrial life.

p. 10: Of kids who are brought up on creationism, Nye says, “Not only that, these kids will never feel the joy of discovery that science brings.” That is demonstrably false. I have several students who took my courses and are now scientists. They are feeling the joy of discovery that science brings, and many of them attribute their desire to become scientists to my creationist textbooks!
I know this is false from personal experience. I'm a creationist and have also experienced the joy of personal discovery in the field of acoustics.

 
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ChetSinger

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Many christians have no theological problems with evolution, a mythical flood, or an old Universe.
Right, so I think Mr. Nye is mistaken if he thinks that the discovery of extraterrestrial life would threaten Christianity. In fact, in the Bible there are already descriptions of extradimensional life, and intelligent life at that. We already know that we're not alone.
 
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Loudmouth

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Right, so I think Mr. Nye is mistaken if he thinks that the discovery of extraterrestrial life would threaten Christianity. In fact, in the Bible there are already descriptions of extradimensional life, and intelligent life at that. We already know that we're not alone.

Just as Nye is speaking to the christians who can not accept evolution, he is also talking to those who could not accept life elsewhere in the universe. Finding a christian who accepts evolution does not mean that all christians accept evolution. The same for the implications of extra-terrestrial life.
 
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Papias

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So do you now agree that the "review" you posted is filled with errors so egregious that they must be due to incompetence or dishonesty?

Do you think that promulgating such incompetence/dishonesty helps the cause of Christ?

Or are you so embarrassed by the "review" you posted that you are avoiding discussion of it?

Chetsinger -

To move away from hypothetical discussions where we don't have data (aliens), what do you think of the dishonesty/falsehood exposed in the "review" so far on this thread? Do you think this "review" helps the cause of Christ?

Papias
 
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bhsmte

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Right, so I think Mr. Nye is mistaken if he thinks that the discovery of extraterrestrial life would threaten Christianity. In fact, in the Bible there are already descriptions of extradimensional life, and intelligent life at that. We already know that we're not alone.

How do you know we are not alone?
 
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Saricharity

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So do you now agree that the "review" you posted is filled with errors so egregious that they must be due to incompetence or dishonesty?

Do you think that promulgating such incompetence/dishonesty helps the cause of Christ?

Or are you so embarrassed by the "review" you posted that you are avoiding discussion of it?

Chetsinger -

To move away from hypothetical discussions where we don't have data (aliens), what do you think of the dishonesty/falsehood exposed in the "review" so far on this thread? Do you think this "review" helps the cause of Christ?

Papias

Nope not embarrassed at all. :D

I know Dr. Wile from conferences I've attended. I'm merely passing on everyone's thoughts and asking for clarification. He's a very intelligent man with integrity. If he is in error, he will make changes. :)
 
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Loudmouth

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Nope not embarrassed at all. :D

I know Dr. Wile from conferences I've attended. I'm merely passing on everyone's thoughts and asking for clarification. He's a very intelligent man with integrity. If he is in error, he will make changes. :)

If he is intelligent and has integrity, why does he have to use misinformation and outright lies to back his arguments?
 
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Blue Wren

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If he is intelligent and has integrity, why does he have to use misinformation and outright lies to back his arguments?

This is what I have wondered, also. I have a suspicion, that when people, bring his errors to him, that instead of acknowledging and correcting the faulty science, he makes it about "world view". He will say, that his science, it is correct, but the "evolutionists" insist, it is not, because they do not have the biblical world view, as he does. Kids, who reads his textbooks, they will naturally think, the answer, that is right for a Christian, is to agree, with him, when put that way, no?

If you look through, the review, the way he writes, it is about smoke and mirrors, not science. I found, when trying to learn about him, this critique of his textbook. Since, it is written, by an atheist, on a skeptic site, and it has, a bad word, or two, that will be focused on, as reasons, to dismiss what he says. Ok. Look, instead, not at the person's review, but of the direct text from Dr Wile's textbook. He uses manipulation, as his main teaching tool.
A Creationist's "science" brainwashing textbook - Skeptic Friends Network
 
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