Anyone here familiar or studied Theomatics?

[Hoshiyya]

I have been shown what is related and have read scriptures extensively and not much else on the subject except for commentaries and preaching.
The Apostle Paul describes those who will confess Christ but deny His cross. I could take the simple approach and go no deeper but I know what he means.
How would you describe what you are filled with, the make up of your personality and whether or not it appears the same as that of Jesus. Are you His brethren.

"How would you describe what you are filled with"

I would describe myself as a person who doesn't like distractionary questions. The purity of the religion matters to me. And your New Age ideas are foreign and hence must not be mingled with the religion, that it may remain pure. It is for the good of Messianic Judaism that the New Age paganism must be identified and stamped out.

"Are you His brethren"

Brethren is a plural term, and I am a singular entity. I cannot be a brotherhood. If someone considers me their brother, that is their view, not something I can say on their behalf.

I don't have a "confessionary" mode of thought. I am defined by my actions, not by my confessions.

 

[AllanV]

I have been shown what is related and have read scriptures extensively and not much else on the subject except for commentaries and preaching.
The Apostle Paul describes those who will confess Christ but deny His cross. I could take the simple approach and go no deeper but I know what he means.
How would you describe what you are filled with, the make up of your personality and whether or not it appears the same as that of Jesus. Are you His brethren.

Instead of the word emptiness as given in Wikipedia, the word broken is better. A broken and contrite heart and spirit. And self is self righteous with out defining and no explanation.

 

[AllanV]

"How would you describe what you are filled with"

I would describe myself as a person who doesn't like distractionary questions. The purity of the religion matters to me. And your New Age ideas are foreign and hence must not be mingled with the religion, that it may remain pure. It is for the good of Messianic Judaism that the New Age paganism must be identified and stamped out.

"Are you His brethren"

Brethren is a plural term, and I am a singular entity. I cannot be a brotherhood. If someone considers me their brother, that is their view, not something I can say on their behalf.

I don't have a "confessionary" mode of thought. I am defined by my actions, not by my confessions.

"Are you one of His brethren" I had an idea you would pick that up.

 

[Hoshiyya]

Instead of the word emptiness as given in Wikipedia, the word broken is better. A broken and contrite heart and spirit. And self is self righteous with out defining and no explanation.

Connecting the "self" to "self righteousness" (without a dash even) is so very revealing.

You only continue to reveal your.... self.

(To make a point by borrowing from your orthography.)

It seems you believe that at some point we will cease to be our "selves" and only then will we become righteous.

 

[Hoshiyya]

"Are you one of His brethren" I had an idea you would pick that up.

I answered your question. It is up to Yeshua to decide if I am his brother. I cannot just declare it to be so.

The better question is if one considers him one's master, and I do. But so does even the worst of heretics, so it is still a meaningless question.

 

[AllanV]

"How would you describe what you are filled with"

I would describe myself as a person who doesn't like distractionary questions. The purity of the religion matters to me. And your New Age ideas are foreign and hence must not be mingled with the religion, that it may remain pure. It is for the good of Messianic Judaism that the New Age paganism must be identified and stamped out.

"Are you His brethren"

Brethren is a plural term, and I am a singular entity. I cannot be a brotherhood. If someone considers me their brother, that is their view, not something I can say on their behalf.

I don't have a "confessionary" mode of thought. I am defined by my actions, not by my confessions.

Is there any such thing as pure religion when in its practice it is filled up with the impure.

…7"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy. 8"Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. 9"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.…

 

[Hoshiyya]

Is there any such thing as pure religion when in its practice it is filled up with the impure.

…7"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy. 8"Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. 9"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.…

Scripture says:

Do not mingle truth with falsehood.
Do not join a crowd to speak evil.
Do not imitate the ways of the pagans.

So I agree. If a religion is filled with impurity, how can it be pure?
So I take care to identify and root out impure and alien ideas, foreign to the Bible.

Many false ideas are accepted by the MJ community, but it seems the community is still orthodox enough to see the paganism of New Age ideology and connected/similar modes of thought.

 

[AllanV]

I answered your question. It is up to Yeshua to decide if I am his brother. I cannot just declare it to be so.

The better question is if one considers him one's master, and I do. But so does even the worst of heretics, so it is still a meaningless question.

Therefore you are saying you do not know Him. But that is His request. It is necessary to do some work on the inner workings that surface on the personality.
Some say grace removes any need but there is a way to true Holiness.

 

[AllanV]

Connecting the "self" to "self righteousness" (without a dash even) is so very revealing.

You only continue to reveal your.... self.

(To make a point by borrowing from your orthography.)

It seems you believe that at some point we will cease to be our "selves" and only then will we become righteous.

With active faith the spirit leads through a transformation and renewal of the mind. The divine nature the nature of Jesus is found and the Love in this nature is energized by God. God is Glorified and is fully indwelling.

 

[Hoshiyya]

With active faith the spirit leads through a transformation and renewal of the mind. The divine nature the nature of Jesus is found and the Love in this nature is energized by God. God is Glorified and is fully indwelling.

Allan is trying now to redeem distinctly New Age ideas, particularly an idea I identified, the distinctive New Age idea of "emptying" oneself of "selfhood" so that another entity (the "I AM") can peer through your eyes.

Regarding Allan using the terms "divine nature" and the "nature of Jesus":
To someone not knowledgable about New Age, these terms might seem innocent, and I agree that they can be used innocently. However when the same person uses these terms, especially right after I mentioned the paganism of Krishna Consciousness, is so telling. You are basically trying to re-explain the "godself" in terms that might entice people.

Folks, notice that this is Allan trying to probably NOT sound like a New Ager anymore, at this point. And he STILL sounds like one.

 

[AllanV]

Allan is trying now to redeem distinctly New Age ideas, particularly an idea I identified, the distinctive New Age idea of "emptying" oneself of "selfhood" so that another entity (the "I AM") can peer through your eyes.

Regarding Allan using the terms "divine nature" and the "nature of Jesus":
To someone not knowledgable about New Age, these terms might seem innocent, and I agree that they can be used innocently. However when the same person uses these terms, especially right after I mentioned the paganism of Krishna Consciousness, is so telling. You are basically trying to re-explain the "godself" in terms that might entice people.

Folks, notice that this is Allan trying to probably NOT sound like a New Ager anymore, at this point. And he STILL sounds like one.

Self denial would leave some rather empty.

 

[BukiRob]

Self denial would leave some rather empty.

Interesting in that is EXACTLY what we are supposed to be doing... denying the self

 

[AllanV]

Interesting in that is EXACTLY what we are supposed to be doing... denying the self

My concordance reads self denial but denying the self is a subtle difference and better. Generally Christianity does not go to much depth possibly because it is a step too far for most.
My mind was opened up at 26 years when God drew my mind deeper and beyond the mind that was usually thought from and that gave an understanding that immortality is possible and Jesus did live and established a mind and nature that is an example to follow. The experience was powerful and another at 40 gave a full realization of what the temple sacrifice was actually about. There is an inner journey of transformation that must be taken and it is not superficial.
Therefore denying self is a path and direction taken to transform and renew the mind which is a completion of the full blessing of God.
This is explained in scriptures but is not taken up as has been observed.

 

[BukiRob]

My concordance reads self denial but denying the self is a subtle difference and better. Generally Christianity does not go to much depth possibly because it is a step too far for most.
My mind was opened up at 26 years when God drew my mind deeper and beyond the mind that was usually thought from and that gave an understanding that immortality is possible and Jesus did live and established a mind and nature that is an example to follow. The experience was powerful and another at 40 gave a full realization of what the temple sacrifice was actually about. There is an inner journey of transformation that must be taken and it is not superficial.
Therefore denying self is a path and direction taken to transform and renew the mind which is a completion of the full blessing of God.
This is explained in scriptures but is not taken up as has been observed.

Immortality does not come through what you do... it is the gift to the believer AT THE RESURRECTION.

The new covenant is G-d's Torah written on your heart and in your mind. This is shown prophetically in Jeremiah and again shown to the new testament believer in Hebrews.

A rejection of G-d's decree's, statues, commands and law is doing right in your own eye's. It is Adonai Elohim who cast his perfect light on what is right, just and true and not you and I.

 

[AllanV]

Immortality does not come through what you do... it is the gift to the believer AT THE RESURRECTION.

The new covenant is G-d's Torah written on your heart and in your mind. This is shown prophetically in Jeremiah and again shown to the new testament believer in Hebrews.

A rejection of G-d's decree's, statues, commands and law is doing right in your own eye's. It is Adonai Elohim who cast his perfect light on what is right, just and true and not you and I.

True that is the hope that immortality is a gift given at the resurrection. But who receives it? Believers do and how does a person believe, it is by the hearing of Faith and this is an active faith not a particular denomination and letters of words on a page.
When God drew me beyond and deeper than my own mind and revealed the mind of an immortal as a comparison it was powerful not just words written on paper. When the Bible was actually read it was as though the words were already known and they had been impressed in me by the Spirit behind the writing. The creator God is immediate and manifests every thing seen at every instant. God is very close at hand. Jesus walked on the earth and overcame what we cannot and He is the example.
Churches were attended and they robbed me of the first freshness and freedom experienced. An understanding of what the mind is and then the brain with hormone balance is necessary and is the mind in the head only or is there a remote bonding through familiarity.

Fourteen years later during a fast I purified my self not actually realizing what was being done. The Spirit lead me all the way to an understanding of what completion is.
In a time of dedication my own mind with its own belief and life experience of work and learning was a hindrance to going deeper. The Spirit with an active faith lead the mind to go beyond my self. The journey is from what is natural to a place that cannot be comprehended. The mind and belief is completely changed from a perspective of believing in own self to believing in God in the nature and mind Jesus thought from. God energizes the Love in this nature. It is exquisite and my fleshly nature was completely covered. It lasted 3days because stupidly there were some engineering reports to complete and the comprehension required turned the mind back to its self. It took several months before the purity went completely and my flesh nature returned.
Paul describes in the scriptures what was set in motion by me by stepping toward God without realizing. I knocked and Jesus answered.

 

[pat34lee]

True that is the hope that immortality is a gift given at the resurrection. But who receives it? Believers do

I know this isn't the main point of your post, but
I still wanted to mention something here. I don't
think we get immortality immediately after the
resurrection, but when we pass through the fires
of purification. Otherwise, the corrupt would also
get eternal life as they are resurrected to judgment.

The rest of your post sounds like Eastern mysticism,
not Christianity, Judaism or any bible based religion.

 

[AllanV]

I know this isn't the main point of your post, but
I still wanted to mention something here. I don't
think we get immortality immediately after the
resurrection, but when we pass through the fires
of purification. Otherwise, the corrupt would also
get eternal life as they are resurrected to judgment.

The rest of your post sounds like Eastern mysticism,
not Christianity, Judaism or any bible based religion.

If the new testament is read especially Ephesians and and other scriptures of Paul's and do what he says then what happens happens.
Most religious people think the spirit is when they read something long enough and then use their intellect to come to the right idea of what it all means.
The Creator of the whole universe is wanting intimate communication but there is a barrier that continues to exist in the mind.

 

[AllanV]

I know this isn't the main point of your post, but
I still wanted to mention something here. I don't
think we get immortality immediately after the
resurrection, but when we pass through the fires
of purification. Otherwise, the corrupt would also
get eternal life as they are resurrected to judgment.

The rest of your post sounds like Eastern mysticism,
not Christianity, Judaism or any bible based religion.

Immortality is given before the resurrection but there will be regeneration by the Spirit working in the individual.

John 5:24 "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

 

[BukiRob]

Immortality is given before the resurrection but there will be regeneration by the Spirit working in the individual.

John 5:24 "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Allen, that is not what scripture tells us. The message of putting on the incorruptible and immortality is spoken about when Paul is describing to the Corinthians that those that have "fallen asleep" will be raised and THEN they will put on...

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural; then the spiritual.

Those believers are in the grave as we speak oblivious to anything occurring from their perspective they breathed their last a nanosecond ago. When you die time stops for you. There is no awareness and you go to the grave. When you are raised to you it will seem like no time has passed. You are raised to either the Resurrection of Glory or as an unbeliever you are raised to the Resurrection of Judgement. Yes even the believer has to give an account for those things which were said and done however, the latter(second) resurrection is the one that occurs for those who rejected G-d's plan of redemption

 

[AllanV]

Allen, that is not what scripture tells us. The message of putting on the incorruptible and immortality is spoken about when Paul is describing to the Corinthians that those that have "fallen asleep" will be raised and THEN they will put on...

Immortality is already set in the person who believes because the Spirit is active in them John 5:24. When the person dies with an active Spirit then there will be regeneration and corruption will take on in-corruption.

Thanks, it is better to use scriptures that do not need interpreting.

It is common sense that this body we have now will corrupt and decay, oxidize etc because it is of the earth. Even with powerful Spiritual experience now the body remains the same.