Anyone here familiar or studied Theomatics?

[pat34lee]

We dont have nearly as much a free will to choose as many would lead you to believe.

You did not have any choice as to what sex you were born. What color your skin, hair and eyes are. Didnt chose to be short or tall, fat or skinny... didnt have a choice to what place you were born, what your station in life you were born to ... didnt have a choice as to what kind of family and parents you have.... NONE of those things did you choose.... not even your given name did you choose.

As for these, we were created. We do not create ourselves.
The creator chooses, not the creation.

 

[AllanV]

We dont have nearly as much a free will to choose as many would lead you to believe.

You did not have any choice as to what sex you were born. What color your skin, hair and eyes are. Didnt chose to be short or tall, fat or skinny... didnt have a choice to what place you were born, what your station in life you were born to ... didnt have a choice as to what kind of family and parents you have.... NONE of those things did you choose.... not even your given name did you choose.

Mankind is born in rebellion at enmity with G-d... it is ONLY by the power of the Holy Spirit that we can even come to repentance.

The teaching and understanding about the will is misunderstood.
The Prophet Samuel said" rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft". All mankind is rebellious and have their own self belief which is empowered by the will. This will is likened to the power of God but it empowers a messed up personality hinged on own self belief. Everyone then uses their empowerment to force a mental bonding through familiar responses.

In modern talk the hormones are stimulated, creating feelings, by one person getting into the head of another.

 

[BukiRob]

The teaching and understanding about the will is misunderstood.
The Prophet Samuel said" rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft". All mankind is rebellious and have their own self belief which is empowered by the will. This will is likened to the power of God but it empowers a messed up personality hinged on own self belief. Everyone then uses their empowerment to force a mental bonding through familiar responses.

In modern talk the hormones are stimulated, creating feelings, by one person getting into the head of another.

we are BORN with this rebellious nature. Why? Why does man exist? Those are difficult questions that frankly the "accepted" theological answers are at best quite weak.

 

[AllanV]

we are BORN with this rebellious nature. Why? Why does man exist? Those are difficult questions that frankly the "accepted" theological answers are at best quite weak.

Satan and his demons are concealed by their obvious attachment in the personality and character of every person. They are right in front of everyone as each interacts with another.
Satan and his demons are hidden in plain sight.

 

[AllanV]

we are BORN with this rebellious nature. Why? Why does man exist? Those are difficult questions that frankly the "accepted" theological answers are at best quite weak.

There is a hereditary line of course and we all have a small amount of God's power in the will. The will empowers self belief through a messed up personality. There is then a supernatural power to get into the minds of others. The term hypnotic suggestion is used but the mind is said to be all in the head and not beyond it. This could be a mistake.

The deeper consciousness of reaping the reward of good and evil means there needs to be a experimental and experiential way of development. It is said that we learn by our mistakes. This can work by making bad choices or by testing someone when talking with a certain emphasis to see how far one can go to get a reaction. A person needs to act the way they do to feel complete and habits are formed within the parameters of a rebellious nature.

Christians are sometimes the worst at the so called mind games and use psychological warfare, witchcraft, against others thinking there is nothing within themselves that needs changing or there is no way to do it.

 

[BukiRob]

There is a hereditary line of course and we all have a small amount of God's power in the will. The will empowers self belief through a messed up personality. There is then a supernatural power to get into the minds of others. The term hypnotic suggestion is used but the mind is said to be all in the head and not beyond it. This could be a mistake.

The deeper consciousness of reaping the reward of good and evil means there needs to be a experimental and experiential way of development. It is said that we learn by our mistakes. This can work by making bad choices or by testing someone when talking with a certain emphasis to see how far one can go to get a reaction. A person needs to act the way they do to feel complete and habits are formed within the parameters of a rebellious nature.

Christians are sometimes the worst at the so called mind games and use psychological warfare, witchcraft, against others thinking there is nothing within themselves that needs changing or there is no way to do it.

Yet, none of what you have said answers the questions I asked.

Why does man exist at all? Why is he born with a rebellious nature? In G-d's system of justice I am NOT accountable for your sin but I am accountable for my own. The very idea that I am born damned is not just. This then means that God is not just as he claims OR the more correct answer there is more going on here than meets the initial examination.

 

[AllanV]

Yet, none of what you have said answers the questions I asked.

Why does man exist at all? Why is he born with a rebellious nature? In G-d's system of justice I am NOT accountable for your sin but I am accountable for my own. The very idea that I am born damned is not just. This then means that God is not just as he claims OR the more correct answer there is more going on here than meets the initial examination.

If a person does not believe in God then life is life with final death at the end. There is then nothing more required than a skill to maintain a good life where one is not out maneuvered, deceived and manipulated.
Alternately one could be the perpetrator to survive.
To answer the question of justice there is accountability for someone who causes another to sin. The fact there is a way sin can be forgiven suggests that there is justice.

The problem is that as observation shows most on this planet are actively trying to destroy it and each other. What motivates them means that this creation has a degree of its own autonomy individually and collectively.
This is a key point.
God has a general hands off approach but will draw a people to Him from through out history. Those people appear to have a worse life once the truth is known and revealed in them. There will be intervention at some point.

Apparently our creator questioned His reason for what he made and the direction it had taken.
Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. And the Lord said, "I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them."

It is not just a problem with man but it is the predatory animal also.
The whole creation does not need to be here as this reality at all. The idea was to create individual beings of a compatible spiritual character who would be righteous in their belief and actions toward each other. There was an influence that degraded the ability of any person to see beyond their own self but a portion of God's power was still available through a separate will and is actively misused.

Jesus battled through the separation from God and aligned His will with the will of God. There is now an opportunity for others to follow His example of an acceptable spiritual character. In a sense God has resolved the unjust aspect of what is going on but this will not be realized until the future has become the present.

 

[AllanV]

Yet, none of what you have said answers the questions I asked.

Why does man exist at all? Why is he born with a rebellious nature? In G-d's system of justice I am NOT accountable for your sin but I am accountable for my own. The very idea that I am born damned is not just. This then means that God is not just as he claims OR the more correct answer there is more going on here than meets the initial examination.

In short a people made up of individuals are being drawn from throughout history and everyone else will be judged. A person could select themselves by making the correct choice and not be judged, but is God already aware of who that person is.

 

[BukiRob]

In short a people made up of individuals are being drawn from throughout history and everyone else will be judged. A person could select themselves by making the correct choice and not be judged, but is God already aware of who that person is.

and you STILL have not answered the question posed


WHY WAS MAN CREATED? WHY IS MAN BORN AT ENMITY TOWARDS G-D?

 

[Hoshiyya]

The teaching and understanding about the will is misunderstood.
The Prophet Samuel said" rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft". All mankind is rebellious and have their own self belief which is empowered by the will. This will is likened to the power of God but it empowers a messed up personality hinged on own self belief. Everyone then uses their empowerment to force a mental bonding through familiar responses.

In modern talk the hormones are stimulated, creating feelings, by one person getting into the head of another.

Your beliefs about self and will seem to be inspired by New Age thinking, which is connected to Buddhism and Hinduism's "no self" philosophy.

I would say Calvin, Luther or Al-Ghazali (being monotheists) had a clearer concept of what is human will than did the Buddha...

 

[Hoshiyya]

We dont have nearly as much a free will to choose as many would lead you to believe.

You did not have any choice as to what sex you were born. What color your skin, hair and eyes are. Didnt chose to be short or tall, fat or skinny... didnt have a choice to what place you were born, what your station in life you were born to ... didnt have a choice as to what kind of family and parents you have.... NONE of those things did you choose.... not even your given name did you choose.

Mankind is born in rebellion at enmity with G-d... it is ONLY by the power of the Holy Spirit that we can even come to repentance.

Amen Amen.

All things are in God's hands.

You are right, I did not decide what place to be born in, or what epoch, what gender, what level of health and fitness, what family etc etc.

Mormonism actually perceived this, and they invented the doctrine that says we actually DID chose all these things, in heaven, before being born, but then after making the choice we passed through the "veil of forgetfulness".

 

[Hoshiyya]

Good questions. But who says God is omnipotent? I sure don't. I think omnipotence is a major theological mistake. If we have genuine freedom, then no, God does not have complete and total monopolistic control over the universe.

So it seems you don't beat around the bush at least.

The conclusion you have reached is the same conclusion any Christian would have to reach, if they value human will over and above God's will, and also don't have a real concept of who is the true God.

Even so, your view doesn't make sense, as God has the power to intervene as depicted in Scripture. So why can he split the seas and strike thousands of Assyrians with plague, but not prevent other things ? Makes no sense.
He could have intervened and prevented the serpent from tempting Eve like he intervened and destroyed the Assyrian army before it could besiege Jerusalem.

So not only do you present him as weak, you also present him as selective. Highly selective about when to use his powers. Selective to the point of evil, which is strange, since the main reason people are against predestination is because they feel it makes God evil.

 

[AllanV]

and you STILL have not answered the question posed


WHY WAS MAN CREATED? WHY IS MAN BORN AT ENMITY TOWARDS G-D?

The scriptures relate why man was created. It is to Glorify God.
By presenting the body as a living sacrifice God will fill it up and be Glorified.
Modern Christian religion tends to preach Jesus but not the cross of Christ as a crossing over from glorifying own self from own intellect, to taking up the divine nature so that God can energize the Love in it and be Glorified. The individual will over flow with the power of Love from within. The fruits of the Spirit are described and exceed what any self willed human is able to show.

The enmity toward God is also explained in scriptures. There is a hereditary line and a social order that maintains a way of seeing this reality in its own belief. It is called the kingdom of Satan. Again modern religion is not revealing exactly how this works within everybody. This needs to be dealt with now not in the future after Jesus returns.
The natural mind is encumbered with attachments called fixtures in the mind or demons and these manifest in behavior and the emphasis on words as people talk to each other. The energy comes from within a person off a hard heart.
Even the earth is subject to oxidizing with decay. Why and how all this began can be read but it is difficult to relate to.

 

[Hoshiyya]

The scriptures relate why man was created. It is to Glorify God.
By presenting the body as a living sacrifice God will fill it up and be Glorified.
Modern Christian religion tends to preach Jesus but not the cross of Christ as a crossing over from glorifying own self from own intellect, to taking up the divine nature so that God can energize the Love in it and be Glorified. The individual will over flow with the power of Love from within. The fruits of the Spirit are described and exceed what any self willed human is able to show.

The enmity toward God is also explained in scriptures. There is a hereditary line and a social order that maintains a way of seeing this reality in its own belief. It is called the kingdom of Satan. Again modern religion is not revealing exactly how this works within everybody. This needs to be dealt with now not in the future after Jesus returns.
The natural mind is encumbered with attachments called fixtures in the mind or demons and these manifest in behavior and the emphasis on words as people talk to each other. The energy comes from within a person off a hard heart.
Even the earth is subject to oxidizing with decay. Why and how all this began can be read but it is difficult to relate to.

You really do have a background in New Age thinking, that much is clear.

 

[AllanV]

Your beliefs about self and will seem to be inspired by New Age thinking, which is connected to Buddhism and Hinduism's "no self" philosophy.

I would say Calvin, Luther or Al-Ghazali (being monotheists) had a clearer concept of what is human will than did the Buddha...

Most things have a counterfeit. I have not read much about any of the above.
What I say has been shown direct and a poor attempt is being made to describe it.
My view of Christianity is that a person could go to Church all their life and not know the truth. Preachers are like politicians and can talk for a long time and say very little but mesmerize the listeners and indoctrinate them. People have the ability to hold another mind and stimulate feelings and responses this is easily seen in the resulting behavior of the participants.
God is to be glorified and the body must be presented as a living sacrifice. Jesus died so that those who believe can have eternal life which is immortality.

 

[AllanV]

You really do have a background in New Age thinking, that much is clear.

A poor attempt is being made to relate the new testament and the fulfilling of the temple sacrifice of the old.
Have you read the new testament. Who is your teacher?

 

[Hoshiyya]

A poor attempt is being made to relate the new testament and the fulfilling of the temple sacrifice of the old.
Have you read the new testament. Who is your teacher?

You use terms and refer to concepts that no person without a background in the pagan ideas of the New Age movement would use.

"Have you read the new testament"

Yes.
Yes I have read the New Testament.
I quote from it and reference its contents frequently.
Are you kidding me ?

My teacher was Bryan Huie, R.I.P.

 

[AllanV]

You use terms and refer to concepts that no person without a background in the pagan ideas of the New Age movement would use.

That would have to be explained to me. When an ordinary person enters a church it is completely foreign because of the words, phrases and behaviors. Nothing in the usual world view prepares a person for it.
My background is engineering and what was noticed is that the same psychology of business approach management to staff was obvious. It was all human endeavor. The individuals were not seeking to Glorify God in His power they were seeking to Glorify God in their own power. Their bodies were not presented as a living sacrifice which says empty they were still full of themselves.

 

[Hoshiyya]

That would have to be explained to me. When an ordinary person enters a church it is completely foreign because of the words, phrases and behaviors. Nothing in the usual world view prepares a person for it.
My background is engineering and what was noticed is that the same psychology of business approach management to staff was obvious. It was all human endeavor. The individuals were not seeking to Glorify God in His power they were seeking to Glorify God in their own power. Their bodies were not presented as a living sacrifice which says empty they were still full of themselves.

I am not trying to convince you, I am identifying you for the benefit of myself and others.

As examples, Allan's use of the terms "emptiness" and "self" is distinctly New Age, with clear origins going back to Buddhism and Hinduism. These religions teach people should empty themselves of ego and selfhood, so that they can be redefined by and filled with divine power and become one with god, so that their bodies are not filled with their own selves, but rather filled with god, who the New Agers like to call "I AM" for some reason (God is never called this in scripture.)

This is utterly foreign to Judaism and the Bible. In Biblical religion, the "self" or nefesh (or whatever) is not a bad thing that has to be replaced with godself or Krishna Consciousness (or whatever). New Age is basically a teaching of gradually expanding pantheism. Things are gradually becoming god / "I AM".

It is critical for people who value pure teachings that they learn to identify falsehood when it appears to them. When someone comes to you and uses certain terminologies and tendentiously references certain ideas, that is a sign you should notice. This ultimately means that we do well to know about the pagan religions that we may identify their missionaries easily.

 

[AllanV]

I am not trying to convince you, I am identifying you for the benefit of myself and others.

As examples, Allan's use of the terms "emptiness" and "self" is distinctly New Age, with clear origins going back to Buddhism and Hinduism. These religions teach people should empty themselves of ego and selfhood, so that they can be redefined by and filled with divine power and become one with god, so that their bodies are not filled with their own selves, but rather filled with god, who the New Agers like to call "I AM" for some reason (God is never called this in scripture.)

This is utterly foreign to Judaism and the Bible. In Biblical religion, the "self" or nefesh (or whatever) is not a bad thing that has to be replaced with godself or Krishna Consciousness (or whatever). New Age is basically a teaching of gradually expanding pantheism. Things are gradually becoming god / "I AM".

It is critical for people who value pure teachings that they learn to identify falsehood when it appears to them. When someone comes to you and uses certain terminologies and tendentiously references certain ideas, that is a sign you should notice. This ultimately means that we do well to know about the pagan religions that we may identify their missionaries easily.

I have been shown what is related and have read scriptures extensively and not much else on the subject except for commentaries and preaching.
The Apostle Paul describes those who will confess Christ but deny His cross. I could take the simple approach and go no deeper but I know what he means.
How would you describe what you are filled with, the make up of your personality and whether or not it appears the same as that of Jesus. Are you His brethren.